Andre Villas-Boas

CrazyHeart

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Moutinho isnt that good though is he. Hows missing out on one target who is much of a muchness to what we have been bringing in an excuse for regression?

I never got the Moutinho argument. The Hulk one even less.

You work with what you have got in surely? And who are just as good.
And by the way, firing AVB meant Sherwood in. Are you happy with that decision?
 

FinnYid

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AVB rotated his squad well, thanks to him keeping us in all three cup competitions - but I guess he doesn't get any points for that.
You really think he should get some extra praise for getting THFC through against Tbilisi, getting out of UEL group consisting of Tromsö, Anzhi and Sheriff and beating Hull reserves at home on penalties?
 
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This year Everton, Arsenal, and Liverpool and fighting for top four spots and all are built on team football rather than being a squad of all stars. Yes Chelsea and City will always be up there with the money they can spend but a good manager will have his team perform greater than the sum of their parts. Man U last year had a fairly weak squad on paper for example.

AVB took a squad of exciting, talented creative players and had us playing the most boring insipid predictable football I have seen. And every game the teamsheet would go up, people would predict why it was the wrong line-up and what would go wrong, and every single game those people would be right
Well those teams have been together for considerably longer than most of our team. That plays a huge part in it.
 

CowInAComa

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And by the way, firing AVB meant Sherwood in. Are you happy with that decision?
Sacking AvB was right, getting Tim was wrong. But ultimately we never worsened or bettered ourselves, just one charlatan of a manager for another.

I think we all know Tim is not long for this world, by the start of next season we will hopefully have a proper manager. Hopefully one who can function with the bang average moutinho/bentaleb obsessions.
 

idontgetit

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AVB rotated his squad well, thanks to him keeping us in all three cup competitions - but I guess he doesn't get any points for that. Bottom line is that AVB out before season's end meant Sherwood in. Are you still happy with that decision?
What teams did we beat in the cups this year? Dynamo Bollockov and a Hull 2nd XI after extra time. It was the same as the prem, desperate frustrating wins papering over the cracks of poor performances. Relying on individual brilliance and long range wonder goals to scrape through games. All shown up when we actually played quality opponents.

AVB rotated the squad yes but never ever got the starting XI correct. The balance of the side was always wrong and the players had the wrong instructions and coaching offensively. I actually quite liked AVB defensively and will happily give him credit there but his offensive deficiencies were utterly toxic and indirectly annihilated any defensive qualities he'd built.

Sherwood in? No in hindsight but I was happy with the decision to get rid off AVB. Any bus is better than one going in the wrong direction, we did outrageously well over Christmas and the gamble could have paid off. Unfortunately in the end our bus driver is more of a white van man that a highly skilled F1 superstar, so we've just ended up going headfirst in to a wall
 

FinnYid

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And by the way, firing AVB meant Sherwood in. Are you happy with that decision?
As in compared to having AVB for the rest of the season???

AVB didn't win a single game this season against top 10 side at PL, had scoring below one goal average on PL and had 1,5 points per game at PL for last 3 months of his reign. Yeah, really sad to see him go.
 

idontgetit

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Well those teams have been together for considerably longer than most of our team. That plays a huge part in it.
Yeah I would totally accept that excuse if we'd played anywhere near our best set-up since the get-go, lost early points and grown through the season. AVB never played our best set-up though and our perfomances were getting worse and worse and worse.

We played rubbish attacking football last year and we played exactly the same rubbish this year. The system was the problem, not the players
 

idontgetit

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You never got the argument? Well let me spell it out: In order for a manager to do his job, he asks for resources that he requires to implement his plans. When he doesn't get them, and instead gets given a boat load of stuff he didn't ask for, it takes things that just little bit longer. As a manager, who was entrusted to take us forward - we should've given him at least that instead of undermining him. Sitting back and saying.... 'well, blah is perfectly good and so is blah blah' is irrelevant.
How do you know that?
 

idontgetit

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Moutinho isnt that good though is he. Hows missing out on one target who is much of a muchness to what we have been bringing in an excuse for regression?

I never got the Moutinho argument. The Hulk one even less.

You work with what you have got in surely? And who are just as good.
Exactly, if you think your squad is lacking passing in CM set up so that one of your more creative passers gets on the ball in the deep (i.e Holtby in a CM3) or don't sell the best passer of the ball in the prem to Hull. The thing is he wanted to play 4-2-3-1 and was adamant that was the ultimate system, playing with athletic strong players come hell or high water. Just like he was immovable on the suicidal high line issue. He had an idea in his mind of what was the ultimate football system and yeah maybe it would have been had he filled the core of it with world class players. He just couldn't look at what was there though and realise his system didn't fit that whatsoever.
 

scat1620

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Hypothetical question for the thread:

Given that Tim Sherwood will almost certainly be replaced this summer and Spurs will need to appoint a new manager, would you want AVB back in preference to any of the other realistic candidates that we could attract instead (i.e. the likes of Louis van Gaal etc are hireable; the likes of Klopp/Guardiola/Mourinho etc are not)? The crux of the question being whether you think AVB is the best manager that Tottenham 2014 could attract. Answers should be given without reference to or comparisons with Tim Sherwood, who is gone anyway and therefore not relevant.

My personal answer is "fuck, no".

My follow-up point would be that if you think that we could do better than AVB this summer, then why are we still talking about him?
 

yiddopaul

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Are we still banging on about who's the best? Neither are good enough for us. Come the end of the season Tim more than likely won't be here. Then everyone will be happy.... until the next appointment.
AVB was never going to make it, we were getting progressively worse, not improving. Tim has even less experience managing than AVB.
Lets all just hope Levy makes the right choice in the summer, get the deal done early so it won't bore people to death. Move on and put TS and AVB behind us. It is a pointless argument, driven by the need to be right.
 

CrazyHeart

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Are we still banging on about who's the best? Neither are good enough for us. Come the end of the season Tim more than likely won't be here. Then everyone will be happy.... until the next appointment.
AVB was never going to make it, we were getting progressively worse, not improving. Tim has even less experience managing than AVB.
Lets all just hope Levy makes the right choice in the summer, get the deal done early so it won't bore people to death. Move on and put TS and AVB behind us. It is a pointless argument, driven by the need to be right.
No we're not banging on about who's better : AVB is a manager and Sherwood is a PE Teacher who's not in the same class or league when it comes to management.
 

scat1620

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No we're not banging on about who's better : AVB is a manager and Sherwood is a PE Teacher who's not in the same class or league when it comes to management.
Why?

Would you want AVB back this summer? (Guessing you might be one of the few people on SC who would?) If not, then why are we still talking about him, other than the trite answer of "because it's the AVB thread"? Why are people not focussing on who our next manager should be, and discussing the potential candidates who would be an improvement on both AVB and Sherwood - because that's what we need.
 

FinnYid

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No we're not banging on about who's better : AVB is a manager and Sherwood is a PE Teacher who's not in the same class or league when it comes to management.
AVB isn't a manager, otherwise he wouldn't be so badly outperformed by PE teacher on the PL. Thus it's rather clear AVB is a charlatan, former tea lady acting as a manager.
 

CowInAComa

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Are we still banging on about who's the best? Neither are good enough for us. Come the end of the season Tim more than likely won't be here. Then everyone will be happy.... until the next appointment.
AVB was never going to make it, we were getting progressively worse, not improving. Tim has even less experience managing than AVB.
Lets all just hope Levy makes the right choice in the summer, get the deal done early so it won't bore people to death. Move on and put TS and AVB behind us. It is a pointless argument, driven by the need to be right.
Indeed. Arguing over who is most shit of our managers this season just sums it up for me. Dull and inept vs stupid and inept. Just make it stop.

Bring on next season.
 

yiddopaul

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No we're not banging on about who's better : AVB is a manager and Sherwood is a PE Teacher who's not in the same class or league when it comes to management.
Again. A pointless argument. Serves no purpose other than to prove how knowledgeable one supporter is over another (in their opinion of course). Let it go, move on. It's the same rhetoric recycled again and again... Most of the arguments are not even valid, as they're just name calling (as if people know what Tim or AVB are like in real life).
 

nightgoat

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Yep, of course stats are irrelevant - especially those linked to points.
Stats can be interesting, but like I said, can be twisted to suit any black and white agenda. Anyone who's watched our games knows that win percentages and points per game are not an accurate reflection on the team under Sherwood. But how come you're all about his win percentage but never bring up his loss percentage? You're all about Tim's percentages, but when someone mentions AVB currently has a 100% in charge of Zenit you instantly scramble around for any reason to dismiss it.

And we didn't open up a single decent opponent - hence scoring on average under goal a game and getting points at worse rate than under Sherwood. If anything this season has proved that having no plan is better than having unbelievably bad plan.
Depends where you draw the boundaries of 'decent', but don't pretend we've been doing that under Sherwood. That 'unbelievably bad plan' also saw us finish one point off fourth last season with a points total that almost every season since the PL went to 20 teams would have finished in the top four. Thankfully we won't have to endure the outcome of a full season of Tim's Lottery Football.

Are you really, seriously, comparing Dnipro - who were just moment ago on top of Ukrainian League before Shakhtar and Kiyv - with Tromsö, Sheriff and Tbilisi??

As for clean sheets at PL Stoke (3-0), Palace (2-0), Everton (1-0), Newcastle (4-0) and Cardiff (1-0). I honestly don't know where you altarboys come up with your stats.
A clean sheet is a clean sheet. If we'd even drawn to any of those teams you'd be using it as a stick to beat AVB with.

While you naturally boost your winning percentages playing Tbilisis, Tromsös, Sheriffs and Anzhis of this world, twice and you have less shot of improving those by playing Benficas and Arsenals, I'd rather stick to PL comparison. Some might call it "suiting my agenda", but I really think deep down even such know that Sherwood would've gotten us through UEL qualifications and UEL group stage while AVB would have stood no chance against Arsenal away or Benfica.
AVB's European record for us was one defeat in 20 (*waits for the 'Gareth Bale Single Handedly Won Every Game AVB Managed, Even Those He Didn't Play In' bollocks*). I suspect he'd have made a better fist of Benfica (not least being a team from his own country who he has previous experience of beating on multiple occasions) than the absolute shambles Tim served up at home. Your 'argument' is all over the place.
 

FinnYid

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Stats can be interesting, but like I said, can be twisted to suit any black and white agenda. Anyone who's watched our games knows that win percentages and points per game are not an accurate reflection on the team under Sherwood.
Perhaps not, but they seemingly told something about AVB? To me that we had negative goal difference under AVB and had scored on par with team that was 19th on the table told how much we overperformed pointwise compared to what we actually showed on the pitch.

But how come you're all about his win percentage but never bring up his loss percentage?
I'm actually usually about points per game as that's more telling that either win or lose percentage.

You're all about Tim's percentages, but when someone mentions AVB currently has a 100% in charge of Zenit you instantly scramble around for any reason to dismiss it.
Just noted how Zenit are perceived on RPL.

Depends where you draw the boundaries of 'decent', but don't pretend we've been doing that under Sherwood. That 'unbelievably bad plan' also saw us finish one point off fourth last season
So what? We've pretty much on par with 4th place since Tim took over - hardly worth much of praise.

Table since Tim took over:
Pool 19 games / 47 points
Chelsea 19 / 42
City 17 / 39
Spurs 19 / 36
Everton 18 / 35
Arsenal 19 / 35

(though looks like it'll be 38 for Everton after tonight)

with a points total that almost every season since the PL went to 20 teams would have finished in the top four. Thankfully we won't have to endure the outcome of a full season of Tim's Lottery Football.
Rather that tripe lottery than torture of Portuguese charlatan who managed to take team that finished 4th to 7th in one and a half season.

AVB's European record for us was one defeat in 20 (*waits for the 'Gareth Bale Single Handedly Won Every Game AVB Managed, Even Those He Didn't Play In' bollocks*). I suspect he'd have made a better fist of Benfica (not least being a team from his own country who he has previous experience of beating on multiple occasions) than the absolute shambles Tim served up at home. Your 'argument' is all over the place.
Of course it is, team that was unable to score, had negative goal difference, had gotten points at rate of 1,5 points per game for last 3 months would've suddenly turned into unstoppable force and beaten Benfica left, right and center. What we saw this season was AVB without Bale and now that we've seen it, I really would like to know how we would've done with actual manager last season instead of the hapless charlatan.

As for bolded bit, lost twice and won twice on the league - however even the most recent results are from 2010-11 so don't think that had any bearance whatsoever.
 
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CrazyHeart

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Why?

Would you want AVB back this summer? (Guessing you might be one of the few people on SC who would?) If not, then why are we still talking about him, other than the trite answer of "because it's the AVB thread"? Why are people not focussing on who our next manager should be, and discussing the potential candidates who would be an improvement on both AVB and Sherwood - because that's what we need.
Hey, I'm all for a new manager coming in - and have no desire to perpetuate this discussion, however if people just post falsehoods and print bullshit, I'll speak up about it.

Do I want AVB back? Nope - because the board didn't support the guy, and I doubt if their full-of-shitness will evolve. He's moved on to bigger and better things anyway and wouldn't want to come back to us. My contention has always been that he should've been afforded 'til the end of the season UNIMPEDED before evaluating him. Firing him and putting in Sherwood when they did was just stupid.
 

Dinghy

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Hey, I'm all for a new manager coming in - and have no desire to perpetuate this discussion, however if people just post falsehoods and print bullshit, I'll speak up about it.

Do I want AVB back? Nope - because the board didn't support the guy, and I doubt if their full-of-shitness will evolve. He's moved on to bigger and better things anyway and wouldn't want to come back to us. My contention has always been that he should've been afforded 'til the end of the season UNIMPEDED before evaluating him. Firing him and putting in Sherwood when they did was just stupid.
We don't even know that he was fired though...
 
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