Are we really as bad as we think we are?

[Shadydan]

Nope, as always people tend to over-react and are super emotional however we are on a current slide and if things get worse then we are really in the shit. For me we just need to get this manager situation sorted first to get us back on track then go from there. I do have question marks whether we're able to hit our objectives this summer in getting the right manager, selling the players that need to go and getting the right players that need to be here.

 

[mil1lion]

I think Mason showed what a difference it can make playing on the front foot again. Obviously his inexperience showed too. Get a more positive attack minded manager who is tactical and we'll score plenty again. The key of course will be to keep Kane and Bale. If we do then we need to improve the movement off the ball in midfield and strengthen at the back. We're not too far behind but we're between either pushing on and catching up or dropping further back. Key signings and the right manager will determine which way it goes.

 

[HodisGawd]

We'll be fine. Obviously we have to make the right appointment and the squad needs some renewal, but we just had a miserable season and still finished 7th. It's hardly disaster territory. We were a couple of wins away from a Champs League place.

Don't let the teenage drama queens on this forum get you down. We'll be back up there next season.

 

[DiVaio]

Yep.

Take out H's goals and assists, and Hugo's saves, and we'd be finishing mid table, max.

Huge summer required, and it looks like we're cocking it already.

Lol take best goal scorers and first choice goalkeeper(and their saves whatever that really means) out from every club and all of them will struggle

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Lol take best goal scorers and first choice goalkeeper(and their saves whatever that really means) out from every club and all of them will struggle

In terms of Kane, Gassin is 100% right though.

Which team around us has the level of quality we get from Kane up front?

He single handedly accounts for half our goals and assists if not more.

 

[beats1]

I wouldn't say Walker and Dembele were certified top players prior to Poch. Walker looked like he had alot of potential under Redknapp and whilst out on loan, however under AVB and Sherwood (before he got injured) he looked poor. Other than when playing v Utd, Dembele looked average most of time until Poch's 2nd season.

I actually think the squad is currently better than what we had when Poch took over.

Sandro and Dembele under AVB were the only positive imo under AVB outside of Bale

Walker was voted PFA team of the year under Harry and Vertonghen made it under AVB

 

[DiVaio]

In terms of Kane, Gassin is 100% right though.

Which team around us has the level of quality we get from Kane up front?

He single handedly accounts for half our goals and assists if not more.

It's definitely because tactics used by Mourinho. Under Pochettino, even under Mason it wasn't the case

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

It's definitely because tactics used by Mourinho. Under Pochettino, even under Mason it wasn't the case

Might as well as sell Kane and hire Mason as our permanent manager if that's what you believe.

And if Mourinho's tactics are to blame for Kane being both the highest assist and goal scorer in the league then those tactics worked for him didn't they? Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

It doesn't mean that if we lose him we will make up the goals and assists through other players. They should already be contributing if that were the case.

 

[DiVaio]

Might as well as sell Kane and hire Mason as our permanent manager if that's what you believe.

And if Mourinho's tactics are to blame for Kane being both the highest assist and goal scorer in the league then those tactics worked for him didn't they? Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

It doesn't mean that if we lose him we will make up the goals and assists through other players. They should already be contributing if that were the case.

Hmm?? Other players were contributing much more to goals and assists when Poch was our manager, when Mason was our manager, even under Mourinho in 19/20. His tactic this season definitely were the reason for being too overreliant on Kane and other players not contributing too much.
And it's not even criticism of Mourinho, just a fact.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Hmm?? Other players were contributing much more to goals and assists when Poch was our manager, when Mason was our manager, even under Mourinho in 19/20. His tactic this season definitely were the reason for being too overreliant on Kane and other players not contributing too much.
And it's not even criticism of Mourinho, just a fact.

Fair enough but either way, this current team finishes bottom half without Kane at the moment and that’s the worrying part.

I don’t think City missed Aguero. Liverpool literally play without a striker. Cavani and Rashford share the responsibility. Werner can’t hit a barn door with a beach ball. Leicester can manage without Vardy. This team would be absolute shambles without Kane. With or without Jose’s tactics to get the best out of him. I think that’s what Gassin was alluding too.

It can change under new management, but we won’t know that for a few months at least while the manager beds in.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

In short yes,

Lloris 34 now I think? - in his prime for a keeper but only has a year left he won’t be staying around after that.

Aurier - doesn’t want to be here he’s our worst and best right back which says it all!

Dier - not even a top 8 Centre half

Toby - used to be amazing but now slowly his age is catching him up!

Davies - decent won’t find better cover at left back but getting slightly injury prone

Doherty - yeh next,

Reguillon - well he’s Spursy but fair enough he may come good

Sanchez - has gone backwards don’t think he’s a top 10 defender

Rodon - wet behind the ears will be a great defender in 2 years but yeh it’s early days could probably do with a loan

Tanganga - slightly harsh but not good enough

Hojbjerg- the danish sfeffan freund

Lo Celso - the Argentinian Harry Winks but will he ever be fit?

Harry Winks - dreadful

Tanguy Five Bellies Baller Dombele - if the premier league was a 5 a side league he’d be the best in the league but sadly it’s not.

Sissoko - don’t go there even his team mates don’t want to pass to him

Bergwijn - okay, there’s something there but still don’t think he will ever amount to anything more than someone like Nathan Redmond

Lamela - only player with a set of balls but he’s off to pasta

Bale - Golf is more fun than football and less eork

Moura - if football was whacky racers he’d be amazing but it’s not.

Son - only good for 8 games a season goes missing for the rest

Kane - well if he’s still here it’s a miracle

So basically yeh at push we’ve got 4 players that would get in a top 4 team so are we really that bad? Yes, YES YES WE ARE!

Why are we so bad? Because our management and chairman like our fans is deluded with how good he thinks some of these players are

 

[Flynn]

I boycotted the Maureen era, I saw very few games so will have a very different perspective than most (and probably wrong but I can live with that... It's just an opinion).

Just 3-4 years ago we had a great team with a smattering of superstars. For a calendar year we were very good, arguably the best. In modern football this isn't sustainable (no team in world football has managed this). In the run to the CL final the writing was already on the wall despite some isolated performances.

At this point our team was spent, remember that we had 9(?) of our players in the WC Semi finals the year before. Our first friendly was just 11 days after the final. One camp blame Poch and one camp blame Levy. In reality nothing is ever so clear cut and there is plenty of blame to go around. Poch, Lvey, Circumstance, our own success in playing so many games, luck, ... blame is going to get us no where.

What made west ham reasonably successful this year wasn't wholesale changes and a big name manager, it was the introduction of a couple of key personal and playing to their strengths. What we need is a manager that will plug the holes in the squad and play to our strengths. What gives me some hope is that I feel most our players could get a decent break this year and come pre season they can go back to training refreshed. Some decent youngsters, a couple of good squad players that will allow us to rotate, 3-4 signings can make a huge difference.

Yes, we've been awful for a while and the players have lost belief in themselves but it's nothing that can't be fixed, we just need to be realistic about whats required because for the right manager to take charge, whats going to be more important than the money they are given is how much time they are given. Whilst theres plenty of fans that are willing to sell their soul to the devil for a trophy, I'll settle for being entertained.

 

[Spurslove]

We’re a mess on & off the pitch & that’s not even considering if Bale / Kane leaves

Things can only get better, right?
.

 

[Spurslove]

In terms of Kane, Gassin is 100% right though.

Which team around us has the level of quality we get from Kane up front?

He single handedly accounts for half our goals and assists if not more.

...and he was probably one of our best defenders too at set pieces.
.

 

[spurs9]

Sandro and Dembele under AVB were the only positive imo under AVB outside of Bale

Walker was voted PFA team of the year under Harry and Vertonghen made it under AVB

You are right the Sandro/Dembele partnership (remember they only made 18 starts together) was definitely one of the few positives that season, but neither were a "Certified top player".

I acknowledged that Walker was good under Redknapp, it was AVB and Sherwood he was poor under. Coloccini also made PFA player of the year that season, but I wouldn't describe him as a certified top player either. Not sure why you are bringing Vertonghen up, he wasn't part of the original discussion. Just on Vertonghen though, He was awesome in his first season but the 2nd season he was awful at times (especially under Sherwood) and many of our fans wanted us to get rid at the end of that season.

 

[Flaneur]

The general consensus is that Spurs are currently in the mire, 7th in the league, having to settle for a 3rd rate European competition, and struggling to appoint a manager has sent some over the edge!

However , only 2 teams scored more than us last season and only 5 teams conceded less, we dropped a ridiculous amount of points from winning positions, but by the same token we also got into those winning positions.

But for a bit more rub of the green, top 4 and a trophy was well within our grasp this season.

I believe with a shake up of the squad in the summer,

Outs(Aurier, Doherty, Dier, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Lucas, Davies)

Ins (from loan; Skipp, Sessegnon, Aarons/Lamptey Top CB, Ings/Dybala, Olise, Sabitzer and resigning Bale on loan)

Introduce the likes of Parrott, Scarlett and Devine in the Conference League, we could be looking at a profitable window with a younger and hungrier squad.

I would go with a smaller squad with more youngsters on the bench this campaign and play a consistent 14/15 players in the league (giving more vital minutes to Tanganga, Rodon, Sessegnon, Skipp etc) and blood the academy players in the cups , and hopefully we can finish top 4 again or close to.

This will put us in a great position over the next couple of years for the squad to blossom, similar to early Poch reign where he played Bentaleb/Mason/Eriksen/Kane/ Townsend/Walker/Rose/Dier all who were fairly young.

I hope we get Poch back this season but if it isn't possible right now we should go for someone like Parker/Potter/Ten Hag knowing that if it doesn't quite go to plan we can try again for Poch in the next season or two when his contract is close to expiring/expired.

Of course i want to win something, we have gotten close so often , we aren't miles off anyway and i think having fearless youngsters that haven't tasted constant failure over the last 5 or 6 years in finals/ semi finals is the way to go plus I've always resonated more with this club when we have signed young stars, the likes of Lennon, Rose, Dawson, Huddlestone, Walker, Alli, Naughton, rather than making the big name £40m-£50m signings, so im hopeful that we can go back to that route and I can fall in love with my club again.

Anyway, is it possible we could be back in the mix next season with a good summer of recruitment or do you think it will get worse and we are as bad as we think we are?

We need a new manager who will strengthen the defence. we don't need a root & branch rebuild (but of course, if Kane goes, we'll need to fill that massive gap).
No, we're not a million miles off top 4, but we're further from it than we were 2 years ago. At least we finished above you-know-who - but that is scant consolation when, as you say, we had the potential to finish significantly higher in the league than we did - only to throw the opportunities away.

Are we as bad as we think we are? I'd say yes, but the fix is do-able this season.

 

[PLTuck]

You're never as good as you think you are when you're winning, and you're never as bad as you think you are when you aren't winning. A good coach and a few tweaks here and there and we'll be back up amongst it.

Saying that 22 year olds aren't good enough is very premature, especially with defenders. Saying that players who are still 3-4 years off the average peak age are not good enough is also premature. In football the saying that past performance is no indicator of future performance is even more true than in the stock market.

 

[Lighty64]

We are that bad that Villa are going to be ahead of us next year, already doing some good bits in the transfers, we can even get a manager ?

they are spending the Grealish money

 

[JCRD]

I dont think we are as bad as we think but Jose has sucked the life out of us and we need some resuscitation. A new coach, fresh ideas, strengthen our squad in key areas and get rid of the deadwood - we should be ok. There is a poor vibe at present but we need to really sort this manager stuff out quick so we have time to recruit

It will be difficult this summer given our players will most likely come back what? end of July and season start date is august 14th i think? thats not a lot of time to integrate players in a pre season etc.

 

[spurs9]

I dont think we are as bad as we think but Jose has sucked the life out of us and we need some resuscitation. A new coach, fresh ideas, strengthen our squad in key areas and get rid of the deadwood - we should be ok. There is a poor vibe at present but we need to really sort this manager stuff out quick so we have time to recruit

It will be difficult this summer given our players will most likely come back what? end of July and season start date is august 14th i think? thats not a lot of time to integrate players in a pre season etc.

Usually Pre-season starts the first Monday in July (5th this year) however I know Liverpool aren't starting until 12th, but not sure if we or other teams will follow.

If it is the 5th, as you would expect, then that gives just under 6 weeks between start of pre-season and 1st game of the season for the players with no Int Tournament. As players that are away for an international tournament are given 2 weeks off, that means

Any Players that get to the Final of the Euro's or Copa America, will only have 3 weeks training. However, if a team is knocked out of the group stage of the Euro's, their players will still get 5 1/2 weeks, almost a full pre-season (then take away 1/2 a week for every additional round they make it through to).

Also thanks to our shit year, we only have 7 players at the Euro's (Kane, Lloris, Sissoko, Toby, PEH, Rodon and Davies) and 2 at the Copa America (Lo Celso and Sanchez). Worst case scenario, there is a France V Wales and Argentina v Colombia Final, which will mean 6 of those players will only be available for 1/2 the pre-season.

We will have the everyone else available for 6 weeks.