Assessing Levy, not Ramos!

[Banjo]

:hello:

Hi People.

Let me put my cards on the table. Seems both here, and elsewhere, some seem to be willing to make some sort of meaningful judgement about Ramos. (Yes, we can't avoid assessing from game to game - but that is very off the cuff.) I was pro-Jol and still feel that the club, wrongly, treated him like crap. He only had 2 2/3 seasons in charge FFS! But 'Jolgate' aside, Ramos is here now. We really ought to wait till the end of next season before offering even provisional judgements of any seriousness on Ramos.

With Levy the case is different. People including me tend to offer the fairly odd 'mantra' - "well he's not turned us into Leeds (sic)." But he arrived in Feb 2001. Within the month he got shot of George Graham. While I was never happy with the appointment of any Arsenal man (remember Terry Neill) to Spurs - at least Graham won us a League Cup.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, after Levy had a row with Graham (and a discussion with Alan Sugar - advising Levy to have a 'buffer' between him and any manager) we then changed to the DOF/head Coach system.

Since then we have had nothing but a revolving door at the football side of management.

DOF - Pleat, HC - Hoddle.

DOF - Pleat, HC - Pleat

'Dream team time'

DOF - Arneson, HC - Santini - Deputy HC Jol.

Santini bottles it and resigns.

DOF - Arneson, HC Jol.

Arneson defects to Chelsea (to sell hot dogs or something),

Comolli - another Arsenal man - appointed DoF.

DoF - Comolli, HC Jol. (Ambiguous relationship according to Jol).

Jol sacked.

DoF - Comolli, HC Ramos.


One of the consequences of the above merry-go-round at management level has been an un-ending shift of players as prefered players have been bought and sold depending on shifts in the football management levels.

For me this is the root cause of our achieving less than has been expected - not just by the fans, but also the boards own hopes. The club has thrown a lot of money at players over the last seven or so years. But it has been unfocused - largely due (I feel) to changes at the level of football management.

While one could argue that Santini's bottling it and Arneson's defection could not be laid at Levy's door; at the end of the day Santini was a crap appointment - the wrong guy for the job. Why Arneson did not stay I don't know - was he just mercenary or not managed properly by Levy. Either way it's a pretty small 'get out' clause for Levy.

Most of the instability, due to changing managers, coaches and players and hence poor results, are down to D. Levy. Maybe he should consider his own position and stop trying to deflect attention away from his own, overpaid, 'top' management?

 

[Kendall]

No, Levy is a god and should be worshipped as such. he is the reason we are now an attractive club for managers (Ramos) and players alike. He is the reason we always seem to have a phenomenal budget. he is the reason we are planning for a new stadium.

I love him & if I had the chance I'd kiss his bald head and give him a cuddle.

 

[DJS]

I think by and large more recently Levy's done a cracking job (Jol's shambolic treatment aside).

The following signings are proof of this - Hutton, Woodgate, Gunter and Modric - all going to be cracking players for the club! :up:

Also got an excellent manager in Ramos and assistant in Poyet! :up:

 

[Banjo]

:grin:

Kendall,

Your real name is not D. Levy by any Chance?

Perhaps 'Mint Cake',

:grin:

 

[Krafty]

Levy is an excellent businessman, of that I dont think there can be any doubt. A lot of the infastructure needed/needs sorting out, and now we seem set to start work on a new training centre/academy, and the new stadium seems closer than ever (but still a distance away)

We got a record sponsoprship deal for our kit, the membership office has been vastly improved and we have spent plenty of money.

You cant expect him to know everything about football, and while Comolli seems to have done a lot right behind the scenes in terms of medical and training staff, his first team acquisitions havent been spot on. But Levy cant be blamed massively for this.

A lot of the turnover has been forced - Arnesen doing a runner, Santini being a muppet, Jol taking us as far as he could. Some of it could have been handled better, but for every cock up there has been at least 10 good things Levy has done.

I hope he stays forever.

 

[Kendall]

Levy is an excellent businessman, of that I dont think there can be any doubt. A lot of the infastructure needed/needs sorting out, and now we seem set to start work on a new training centre/academy, and the new stadium seems closer than ever (but still a distance away)

We got a record sponsoprship deal for our kit, the membership office has been vastly improved and we have spent plenty of money.

You cant expect him to know everything about football, and while Comolli seems to have done a lot right behind the scenes in terms of medical and training staff, his first team acquisitions havent been spot on. But Levy cant be blamed massively for this.

A lot of the turnover has been forced - Arnesen doing a runner, Santini being a muppet, Jol taking us as far as he could. Some of it could have been handled better, but for every cock up there has been at least 10 good things Levy has done.

I hope he stays forever.

Agreed and repped.

The day Levy goes will be a sad day indeed.

 

[miles_64]

No, Levy is a god and should be worshipped as such. he is the reason we are now an attractive club for managers (Ramos) and players alike. He is the reason we always seem to have a phenomenal budget. he is the reason we are planning for a new stadium.

I love him & if I had the chance I'd kiss his bald head and give him a cuddle.

:up:

Seconded, although I might kiss him with tongues as well. In a hetrosexual, testosterone-filled way of course...

 

[MattyP]

Banjo, the day Levy goes on telly and says he wouldn't wash his car with Berbatov's shirt is the day you should be concerned.

And this is coming from someone that truly appreciated what Sugar did for the club.

 

[Banjo]

Sugar Kept us safe from Bob Maxwell - for me that's all!

 

[rez9000]

I'm more inclined to agree with Banjo, although I think your analysis is a little simplistic.

I think there have been times that Levy has dropped the ball and fairly significantly, and his insistence on keeping on Comolli I feel is a major weakness as I do not believe that our DOF is a worthy appointment to the highest management position at Spurs.

I stand by my assertion that DC is too young and inexperienced for such a prestigious position. How someone who's only experience is a scout at Arsenal and a 'Technical Director' in the French League can be superior to a manager with years of experience and that applies to both Ramos AND Martin Jol. With Arnesen, we had a man with proven experience. His record was beyond reproach and he was known throughout the continent. in comparison, Comolli was and still is a total ingenu. For me, that counts as a heavy mark against Daniel Levy.

The problem with Levy is that as an ENIC man, his trustworthiness is suspect, because of ENIC's past involvement with other football clubs, and he further undermined that trust with his treatment of BMJ.

Speaking personally, I'm happier with Levy than I was with Sugar, as I feel he has a greater interest in the club. However, the only way I'll fully trust Levy is if he stays with the club after we break the Top 4 cartel. But the rumours that he is looking to sell up as soon as that happens refuse to go away.

 

[Kendall]

Our current DOF managed to secure us one of the top managers in the world. Had Levy just been in charge of that then I'm sure we wouldn't have had Ramos. Infact we'd probably have had Kemsley's choice - Redknapp.

 

[MattyP]

Sugar Kept us safe from Bob Maxwell - for me that's all!

If it wasn't for Sugar people would be saying "doing a Spurs", not "doing a Leeds".

Sugar did okay, Levy is better than most other Chairman in the premiership

 

[joey55]

No, Levy is a god and should be worshipped as such. he is the reason we are now an attractive club for managers (Ramos) and players alike. He is the reason we always seem to have a phenomenal budget. he is the reason we are planning for a new stadium.

I love him & if I had the chance I'd kiss his bald head and give him a cuddle.

I was full of praise for Levy for a long time and then turned against him. However, someone pointed out something to me a few weeks ago, which is worth considering. We are all prepared to give young players or inexperienced coach's time to learn and adapt, yet with chairman or directors we often ignore the fact there is a learning curve.

Just look at how the Prem has changed in the time he's been at the club. We have to remember that he is ultimately running an invest vehicle and therefore the changing climate has often led to the goal posts being changed. Simple things like the 4th CL spot being introduced and the new TV deals and emerging Asian markets will have all changed the goal posts for ENIC and therefore Levy has had to adapt his plans for the club to that.

For example, 5 years ago the CL would have been the key for the club, but now with the growth of the Prem and world wide interest, the financial benefits it offers aren't that spectacular, particuarly to an efficiently run club like ours. See any club rich list and we will be way up there. Make a realistic assessment of the kind of money we'd need to invest to make the CL and then see if the revenues brought in through qualification are worth it. I think many would be suprised at what they discover. It's things like this that leave Levy in a bit of a Catch 22. What is best for the business and what is best for ENIC aren't always the same thing.

Oddly one of Levys' biggest problems is that he runs the club so efficiently that there is little margin for growth and this will naturally put possible investors off. With the global credit crunch etc financing new projects such as the stadium will also cause reluctance amaongst investors. The stadium and the CL are the 2 key areas that any future investor will look at and neither offer particular attractive returns in the current climate. So any investor realistically would have to value the club as it is now, rather than intrinsically. So Levy is kind of left treading water. Anyone looking to raise equity to buy Spurs, would have to feel they could run the club more efficiently than Levy and there aren't going to be many who take a close look and come to that conclusion. So essentially Spurs and Enic are probably stuck with each other for the time being. Whether this is a good or bad thing only time will tell.

 

[Banjo]

Kendall,

I'm not sure that DC was the one who secured Ramos, I suspect Levy was more involved.

I am not sure that Ramos is 'one of the top managers in the world'. He's made a good fist of it so far at WHL, and of course at Seville, for two seasons. Before that his record was poor and always moving on. Well that would fit Levy's profile too I suppose!

 

[Kendall]

I'm more inclined to agree with Banjo, although I think your analysis is a little simplistic.

I think there have been times that Levy has dropped the ball and fairly significantly, and his insistence on keeping on Comolli I feel is a major weakness as I do not believe that our DOF is a worthy appointment to the highest management position at Spurs.

I stand by my assertion that DC is too young and inexperienced for such a prestigious position. How someone who's only experience is a scout at Arsenal and a 'Technical Director' in the French League can be superior to a manager with years of experience and that applies to both Ramos AND Martin Jol. With Arnesen, we had a man with proven experience. His record was beyond reproach and he was known throughout the continent. in comparison, Comolli was and still is a total ingenu. For me, that counts as a heavy mark against Daniel Levy.

The problem with Levy is that as an ENIC man, his trustworthiness is suspect, because of ENIC's past involvement with other football clubs, and he further undermined that trust with his treatment of BMJ.

Speaking personally, I'm happier with Levy than I was with Sugar, as I feel he has a greater interest in the club. However, the only way I'll fully trust Levy is if he stays with the club after we break the Top 4 cartel. But the rumours that he is looking to sell up as soon as that happens refuse to go away.

Surely the fact that you are worried about him leaving after making us a success and top power in the best league in the world is testiment to just how good he is?

 

[Banjo]

MattyP,

Like I said - Sugar saved us from Maxwell!

Credit to him for that!

 

[Kendall]

MattyP,

Like I said - Sugar saved us from Maxwell!

Credit to him for that!

credit where credit's due he did more than that. He made money available where possible, made us financially stable and improved the ground. He just let his personal opinions get in the way of what was good for THFC at the time. He was inexperienced in the field and it showed in the end as more savvy people began running other clubs around us.

 

[joey55]

Our current DOF managed to secure us one of the top managers in the world. Had Levy just been in charge of that then I'm sure we wouldn't have had Ramos. Infact we'd probably have had Kemsley's choice - Redknapp.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but I've never understood this dismissal many fans have of Redknapp. Given what he's achieved at Pompey and Wham, surely there's an argument to suggest that had he had our sized budgets he'd have spent it very much more wisely than we have in recent years. I'm not saying he's a better coach than Juande, but his buying skills have put our DofF to shame. And his youth recruitment isn't that bad either. Has there been a more effective youth set up than the one he had at Wham - Ferdinand X2, Cole, Carrick, Lampard, Defoe and Johnson. At a club like ours he'd not be able to get away with any of the dodgy dealings he can at smaller less well run establishments. He'd have made a fantastic DofF.

 

[Bobishism]

The west ham youth setup had little to do with him.

 

[Kendall]

I don't dismiss Redknapp, infact i've said many times he is brilliant at getting the best out of players. Just look at all our supposed 'rejects' at Pompey!

But Ramos is a world renowned manager, he is a big fish who was tipped to manage one of the big guns in Spain, but we landed him - probably wouldn't have happened without Comolli - that's my only point.