Atletico sign Antoine Griezmann

[ItsBoris]

We desperately are in need of a goal scoring Left Wing Forward. We need a player with serious pace and the ability to shoot with accuracy with both feet from outside of 15 yards. Lennon and Townsend have no end product, and Chadli doesn't have the top end pace to really get in behind defenses.

Griezmann is the type of signing that helps us close the gap significantly with Arsenal. I also believe Remy or Origi would've fit our need, too, but alas, we missed out on them. Jay Rodriguez simply isn't ready to contribute in August, which is when we need the entire first team to be together and firing on all cylinders. Don't underestimate how important it is for Pochettino to have an outstanding first season. Finish 6th and you will see Eriksen, Vertonghen, and Lloris leave next summer, and Poch will be at the mercy of Levy operating perfectly in the transfer market. Back to back 6th place finishes, which would be a given if we lost those three key players would almost certainly see him sacked given Levy's recent string of terminations of managers.

I don't think Remy or Origi are much better than what we have personally.

Also I'm starting to think that perhaps Poch's seeming preference for Jay Rodriguez is more down to the intangible aspects of the players. I definitely think that Griezmann is the more talented player, but we also need a player in the left wing position that is prepared to press aggressively for the entire 90 minutes. I haven't watched Griezmann closely enough to know if he can do that, but maybe Poch has his doubts. And if so then I fully support his decision as it's important to buy the players who are not only talented, but who fit into the style and system you are trying to create.

So maybe Depay actually would make more sense from that point of view?

 

[TH1239]

I don't think Remy or Origi are much better than what we have personally.

Also I'm starting to think that perhaps Poch's seeming preference for Jay Rodriguez is more down to the intangible aspects of the players. I definitely think that Griezmann is the more talented player, but we also need a player in the left wing position that is prepared to press aggressively for the entire 90 minutes. I haven't watched Griezmann closely enough to know if he can do that, but maybe Poch has his doubts. And if so then I fully support his decision as it's important to buy the players who are not only talented, but who fit into the style and system you are trying to create.

So maybe Depay actually would make more sense from that point of view?

Rodriguez is coming off a major injury and will not be available until November. Given the amount of time he will have missed, you can't expect him to be a starter playing nearly 90 minutes a game in a pressing team until well in 2015. We simply do not have the luxury of waiting that long. Maybe if he was a world class player (or on the level of Rossi when he get hurt a few years ago at Villareal), but he's not.

As for Remy, I heartily disagree. He has far more pace than Chadli and to even compare his end product with the likes of Lennon and Townsend is laughable (I believe Remy scored 7 times the goals these two did combined last season in significantly fewer games). Yes, we can play Eriksen on the left, but I'd far prefer him playing behind the striker.

 

[DaSpurs]

I don't think Remy or Origi are much better than what we have personally.

Also I'm starting to think that perhaps Poch's seeming preference for Jay Rodriguez is more down to the intangible aspects of the players. I definitely think that Griezmann is the more talented player, but we also need a player in the left wing position that is prepared to press aggressively for the entire 90 minutes. I haven't watched Griezmann closely enough to know if he can do that, but maybe Poch has his doubts. And if so then I fully support his decision as it's important to buy the players who are not only talented, but who fit into the style and system you are trying to create.

So maybe Depay actually would make more sense from that point of view?

I think you bring up a very good point, but I think a lot of it may also have to do with the fact he can also play striker and both of our current senior strikers are hugging 30. Plan may be that by the time J Rod has fully recovered and returned to his best, both mentally and physically, that may be at a point at which at least one of the two moves on and then we don't really even need to buy another striker.

 

[Ossie85]

I think you're overrating Konop a lot. There's no way he's faster than Griezmann. I think you're taking the england game against walker as a benchmark, and the fact is that Walker recovered every time he passed him.

 

[DaSpurs]

Rodriguez is coming off a major injury and will not be available until November. Given the amount of time he will have missed, you can't expect him to be a starter playing nearly 90 minutes a game in a pressing team until well in 2015. We simply do not have the luxury of waiting that long. Maybe if he was a world class player (or on the level of Rossi when he get hurt a few years ago at Villareal), but he's not.

As for Remy, I heartily disagree. He has far more pace than Chadli and to even compare his end product with the likes of Lennon and Townsend is laughable (I believe Remy scored 7 times the goals these two did combined last season in significantly fewer games). Yes, we can play Eriksen on the left, but I'd far prefer him playing behind the striker.

I do agree with your urgency for a left winger, and of course you had me at your preference of Eriksen at the No 10. Blows my mind when people suggest they would prefer Eriksen to play wide left and use that to counter the need for buying another left winger. I'd rather see a cow placed at left winger if it meant Eriksen remained in his natural position, and from the position more conducive to it picked up our embarrassingly low number of through-balls.

I also personally don't want J Rod to be our solution to the position, but when pondering rationale as to why Poch would still pursue an injured player over healthier, better players (IMO), you have to consider he must have a/some very good reason(s). So yes, I would immensely prefer one of Griez or Kono to J Rod and do think left winger if more urgent than most give it credit for (and has been for a year and a half now), but there has to be reasoning behind the interest.

 

[ItsBoris]

Rodriguez is coming off a major injury and will not be available until November. Given the amount of time he will have missed, you can't expect him to be a starter playing nearly 90 minutes a game in a pressing team until well in 2015. We simply do not have the luxury of waiting that long. Maybe if he was a world class player (or on the level of Rossi when he get hurt a few years ago at Villareal), but he's not.

As for Remy, I heartily disagree. He has far more pace than Chadli and to even compare his end product with the likes of Lennon and Townsend is laughable (I believe Remy scored 7 times the goals these two did combined last season in significantly fewer games). Yes, we can play Eriksen on the left, but I'd far prefer him playing behind the striker.

I didn't say I want Jay Rodriguez, I'm trying to explain a possible reason why Poch might prefer a player like him.

I think Remy has some good qualities and some not so good, but I don't think he'll be anything more than a squad player for Liverpool.

 

[Ossie85]

I watched quite a bit of Griezmann. He isn't slow by any means, but he's definitely not as fast as Konoplyanka. No clue where you got that idea from. Griezmann is a much more technical player than Kono...I wouldn't say he is all that different from Lamela. Kono is more like a trickier, less physically overwhelming Bale but both Kono and Bale can just dribble past players and score, which is what an attack as technical as Lamela/Eriksen/Griezmann might be lacking.

Obviously either one would make us much better than having say Chadli there. I prefer Konoplyanka. You may prefer Griezmann. Unfortunately I think Poch prefers Jay Rodriguez.

If he were all that he wouldn't still be playing for Dinamo Kiev

He also has less goals than Griezmann and is playing in a nothing league

Sorry, but i can't agree one bit. Lamela and Griezmann can dribble and score as much or more than Konop

 

[ItsBoris]

I think you bring up a very good point, but I think a lot of it may also have to do with the fact he can also play striker and both of our current senior strikers are hugging 30. Plan may be that by the time J Rod has fully recovered and returned to his best, both mentally and physically, that may be at a point at which at least one of the two moves on and then we don't really even need to buy another striker.

Perhaps, but I do feel like a player specifically for the left wing position is a definite target, while I also think we are happy with our striking options. That's just the feeling I get from the information we've been given. The fact that Rodriguez can play up front is also a plus, but Pochettino only used him there in 4 games last season. I think if he's a target over someone like Griezmann it must be primarily because he has the ability to press for 90 minutes and because he has experience in the Premier League.

 

[DaSpurs]

I think you're overrating Konop a lot. There's no way he's faster than Griezmann. I think you're taking the england game against walker as a benchmark, and the fact is that Walker recovered every time he passed him.

This accusation is thrown around quite a bit towards those who rate the player, and that's just simply not true for everyone who does. There are several, including myself, who have said we've noticed the player even as of two years ago. I've followed him as closely as possible (considering he plays in Ukraine) ever since then because I was so impressed, and have honestly seen him play considerably more than Griezmann despite playing in La Liga and his stint in the CL this year. The guy is devastatingly quick.

I've still seen Griez play a fair few number of times to have watched him, and he's without certain a very fast winger, but Kono's speed is just on another level. He was originally a DLP, and judging from his footwork, shooting, and passing ability, I'm willing to guess the move to winger was based purely on his outstanding speed rather than being inept at playing centrally.

 

[DaSpurs]

Perhaps, but I do feel like a player specifically for the left wing position is a definite target, while I also think we are happy with our striking options. That's just the feeling I get from the information we've been given. The fact that Rodriguez can play up front is also a plus, but Pochettino only used him there in 4 games last season. I think if he's a target over someone like Griezmann it must be primarily because he has the ability to press for 90 minutes and because he has experience in the Premier League.

Oh I'm certainly not disagreeing you, because in fact I agree that's probably the most immediate concern. I'm simply referring to maybe two or more years down the line. J Rod would give us a winger in the not-too-distant future while he goes ahead with what we have, gives that time to recover for Poch to get a better feeling of what we have, and then can utilize him later at the position (even as of the winter), and then a few more years down the road after one or more of Bob and Ade have departed then we already have a player capable of filling in at striker.

Just an additional thought as to speculation of why, nothing more. But again, as for me personally I don't want to see it happen. It seems to me J Rod's game is heavily based on his speed and attacking space, in which case I'm not sure why we're choosing to primarily pursue a player with a recently torn ACL. Makes no sense to me, especially over options such as Kono, Griez, and Depay if any are realistic.

 

[Ossie85]

This accusation is thrown around quite a bit towards those who rate the player, and that's just simply not true for everyone who does. There are several, including myself, who have said we've noticed the player even as of two years ago. I've followed him as closely as possible (considering he plays in Ukraine) ever since then because I was so impressed, and have honestly seen him play considerably more than Griezmann despite playing in La Liga and his stint in the CL this year. The guy is devastatingly quick.

I've still seen Griez play a fair few number of times to have watched him, and he's without certain a very fast winger, but Kono's speed is just on another level. He was originally a DLP, and judging from his footwork, shooting, and passing ability, I'm willing to guess the move to winger was based purely on his outstanding speed rather than being inept at playing centrally.

Yeah, I don't see it. He doesn't look faster than Griezmann to me

That free spending liverpool didn't want to spend 15m euros on him, or that the only one bidding for him right now is West Ham should give you an idea that he's not as good as several of you are making him look.

 

[ItsBoris]

Oh I'm certainly not disagreeing you, because in fact I agree that's probably the most immediate concern. I'm simply referring to maybe two or more years down the line. J Rod would give us a winger in the not-too-distant future while he goes ahead with what we have, gives that time to recover for Poch to get a better feeling of what we have, and then can utilize him later at the position (even as of the winter), and then a few more years down the road after one or more of Bob and Ade have departed then we already have a player capable of filling in at striker.

Just an additional thought as to speculation of why, nothing more. But again, as for me personally I don't want to see it happen. It seems to me J Rod's game is heavily based on his speed and attacking space, in which case I'm not sure why we're choosing to primarily pursue a player with a recently torn ACL. Makes no sense to me, especially over options such as Kono, Griez, and Depay if any are realistic.

Yeah sorry haha didn't mean for it to come across as though I was trying to argue. I get your point, that would definitely be an additional reason to sign him. And like you I would also be somewhat concerned signing him after his injury, though maybe we think that it could help us get the player for a lower price?

Anyway has there been any solid indication that we're actually pursuing Jay Rodriguez? There may be I just don't know. JJetset did poo poo the Griezmann link, but he did seem to think that Depay may be a possibility, which kind of makes sense to me and fits the description of the type of player we might be looking for in that position. I definitely think it's worth spending some money on.

 

[DaSpurs]

If he were all that he wouldn't still be playing for Dinamo Kiev

He also has less goals than Griezmann and is playing in a nothing league

Sorry, but i can't agree one bit. Lamela and Griezmann can dribble and score as much or more than Konop

That's hardly fair to slate the player for the club he's at. It's Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk, hardly a side scouts keep an eye out for talent considering if they're looking for Ukrainians, they'll hardly look beyond Shakhtar or Kiev. Kiev actually tried to sign him in the past, but the owner of Dnipro (who is very wealthy), refused to sell him to Kiev and cited an outlandish price for him (something like 40 million euros I believe). Obviously, Kiev wasn't willing to agree to that.

We don't necessarily know what goes on with players' contracts in these countries that allow third party ownership, don't necessarily know what the mental situations of the owners are like, and don't necessarily know the player's preferences/lifestyle. A player's current club should never be sufficient reason to write that player off, and especially not one in Ukraine.

If you feel Griez is better, that's fine and I don't blame you. But Kono is no overrated "flavor of the month." He's a fantastic player, and if we do in fact miss out on Griez then a Kono acquisition would still yet improve the squad and its balance significantly.

 

[Mr Pink]

I would prefer Griezmann every day of the week but its clear a deal for Kono is a very complicated process...that's probably why he's still where he is.

 

[DaSpurs]

Yeah, I don't see it. He doesn't look faster than Griezmann to me

That free spending liverpool didn't want to spend 15m euros on him, or that the only one bidding for him right now is West Ham should give you an idea that he's not as good as several of you are making him look.

My response to this would be the same as the one above, so I'll just refer you to that one.

But just for emphasis' sake, it's hardly fair to slate a player for his current club and who's pursuing him. Liverpool by all accounts went balls to the wall to bring him in in January. They even flew Ayre into Ukraine to be physically present for 24 hours to try and seal the deal, but it didn't work out.

That tells me the desire is there from the big clubs, but the reports that his contract is whack hold some strong merit, especially considering the sheer number of those very reports.

 

[DaSpurs]

Yeah sorry haha didn't mean for it to come across as though I was trying to argue. I get your point, that would definitely be an additional reason to sign him. And like you I would also be somewhat concerned signing him after his injury, though maybe we think that it could help us get the player for a lower price?

Anyway has there been any solid indication that we're actually pursuing Jay Rodriguez? There may be I just don't know. JJetset did poo poo the Griezmann link, but he did seem to think that Depay may be a possibility, which kind of makes sense to me and fits the description of the type of player we might be looking for in that position. I definitely think it's worth spending some money on.

The reports from the ITK, and now Stobart, seem to indicate there's some serious smoke that Poch would like to try and get J Rod if he can.

 

[elDiablo]

We lack outright pace in attack so if kono is quick then id be happy with that.

 

[Spursh]

Konoplyanka is definitely faster, and beats his marker with much more ease.

But in terms of technique, intelligence, movement, vision and goal-threat, Griezmann is on another level and is comfortably the better player

 

[LiamJM10]

As for Remy, I heartily disagree. He has far more pace than Chadli and to even compare his end product with the likes of Lennon and Townsend is laughable (I believe Remy scored 7 times the goals these two did combined last season in significantly fewer games). Yes, we can play Eriksen on the left, but I'd far prefer him playing behind the striker.

Comparing Remy's goal record to theirs is insignificant given that he was played as a forward. Ours play as proper wingers.

 

[DaSpurs]

Konoplyanka is definitely faster, and beats his marker with much more ease.

But in terms of technique, intelligence, movement, vision and goal-threat, Griezmann is on another level and is comfortably the better player

Entirely agree with this assessment. Spot on.