David Moyes Manchester United Disaster

[michaelden]

I don't understand. The United team has been the exact same since Fergie left has it not? Only now it is bolstered with Mata. What the hell has moyes done so differently? Is it in his training, his formations, tactics, subs? To go from Champions to where they are now, it all seems quite strange. Incredible contrast.

self belief

 

[SpursManChris]

1. Because it is arguably the biggest club in the world
2. They believe they have more potential to be successful than us
3. They want to play with the likes of Mata, Rooney, RVP
4. They pay more money.

Sadly, all of that is true, with point 4 being the most relevant.

 

[SpursManChris]

self belief

players or moyes?

 

[Mullers]

I don't understand. The United team has been the exact same since Fergie left has it not? Only now it is bolstered with Mata. What the hell has moyes done so differently? Is it in his training, his formations, tactics, subs? To go from Champions to where they are now, it all seems quite strange. Incredible contrast.

Fergie is a legend and an icon, Moyes is not.
IMO the players are not playing for him, like they would Fergie.

 

[SpursManChris]

Why would Jan or Dembele join a team lower than us and possibly not even in Europe next season?

United finishing lower than us doesn't mean anything unless we get CL. In that case, they'd be fools to leave. But if we only get Europa, they might not see the worth in hanging around and go to United for the 4 reasons stated above.

 

[SpursManChris]

Fergie is a legend and an icon, Moyes is not.
IMO the players are not playing for him, like they would Fergie.

If that was the reason and the reason alone, (and I don't think psychology is ever a sole factor in a team) then Moyes is obviously not to blame. He may have a similar accent, but he's never gonna be Fergie. The club would actually be wise to conduct a psychological evaluation of the entire team to determine if this is a factor, before giving moyes the flick and bringing in someone else who is not Alex Ferguson.

 

[Mullers]

United finishing lower than us doesn't mean anything unless we get CL. In that case, they'd be fools to leave. But if we only get Europa, they might not see the worth in hanging around and go to United for the 4 reasons stated above.

Not necessarily, they might just think that the chances of us getting back there the next season are very slim and with united that the chances are a lot better.
I would expect united to bolster their squad somewhat in the summer, where ever they finish.

 

[Mullers]

If that was the reason and the reason alone, (and I don't think psychology is ever a sole factor in a team) then Moyes is obviously not to blame. He may have a similar accent, but he's never gonna be Fergie. The club would actually be wise to conduct a psychological evaluation of the entire team to determine if this is a factor, before giving moyes the flick and bringing in someone else who is not Alex Ferguson.

I don't think it is the sole factor either but I think it's a major one but any way it wouldn't be the first time that players don't play their heart out for the manager.

 

[SpursManChris]

Not necessarily, they might just think that the chances of us getting back there the next season are very slim and with united that the chances are a lot better.

Yeah, I said they'd be fools after saying "if we got CL" this season. If we don't, then it makes sense to leave for united with the thinking "they're more likely"

 

[AW?]

Fergie is a legend and an icon, Moyes is not.
IMO the players are not playing for him, like they would Fergie.

Like has been said before, the players/team's mentality reflect the managers. Uncertainty and lack absolute belief in themselves seems to be the mirrored image here. Sharpness of finishing, carelessness at the back. The reality is Moyes has won nothing do really has mo reason to fully believe has the pedigree to manage an elite club. Pair that with fact they've invested badly over the last few years bar Van Persie and there you go. Mata is great but clearly they need better wingers and Cms. Well at the back too. Let's face it they've worked miracles with Fergie there. Have great strike force though for the last few years of their decline and City's rise.

 

[SpursManChris]

I don't think it is the sole factor either but I think it's a major one but any way it wouldn't be the first time that players don't play their heart out for the manager.

It's an interesting study though. "not playing for the manager" I wonder how much of it is concious and how much sub-concious. If it's concious then the solution is easy. The players have to grow the fuck up and realise that they're playing for more than just one man, but an entire fan base and an ownership.

 

[Wolver]

Defo psychological imo, but not just the Man Utd players. Teams go to OT now and believe they can take points off of them, also the refs don't seem to be as on side as they used to be. Having RVP out and off form prob hasn't helped either.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

United are obviously a bigger draw than us but I think the days of our players kicking up a massive stink to get a move there are gone for the time being.

 

[Riandor]

They should probably be renamed then!



One swallow does not a summer make. Man Utd are the most successful English side in history. They have the largest turnover, biggest stadium and biggest fan base. I doubt players are as quick to write them off.

No I get all that, but players have limited shelf life.
If United are not even in Europe and Spurs are, hey let's say even CL, then why would a player risk not playing in the European competition vs potentially getting there the season after, which is always a risk.

If Spurs aren't in the CL, and say both in Europa then yes, ok all the other factors override it. Man United with all their potential etc... But who is to say Man United keep all their best players if not in CL?

What if Barca or Real Madrid ask for Van Persie, what if Chelsea ask for Rooney?

Man United need a complete overhaul in Defence and Midfield. This will not be a one season fix and they run the risk of falling further off the pace in the mean time. Look at what happened to Liverpool when they dropped out! It has taken them this long to get back up there.

 

[SpursManChris]

 

[SpursManChris]

United are obviously a bigger draw than us but I think the days of our players kicking up a massive stink to get a move there are gone for the time being.

...for the time being.

 

[michaelden]

players or moyes?

the players in moyes

 

[SpursManChris]

the players in moyes

I'm guessing you didnt mean to say the players IN moyes

 

[michaelden]

I'm guessing you didnt mean to say the players IN moyes

I did. I meant the players lack the self belief in Moyes

 

[SpursManChris]

I did. I meant the players lack the self belief in Moyes

oh right. I was reading it as "inside moyes" and thought you might have meant players "and moyes"