Financials 17/18

[Lighty64]

Your arguments are not helped by glaring inaccuracies. Where did you get the idea that Brexit had doubled the cost of the new stadium? I have seen reports that costs have risen 6% due to Brexit but I have doubts whether it is even this much. The government's Construction Output Costs Index for new builds show an 8% increase over 2 years (about 2% above RPI for the same period). Interest rates have only increased marginally during this period.

If you are looking at the costs of the new stadium, have you considered the extra costs of having a retractable pitch or the numerous design changes. The extra costs and delays are down to ENIC wanting a state-of-the-art stadium. Was that necessary or just Daniel's ego?

The City of Manchester Stadium was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games (it was planned as an athletics arena for Manchester's aborted bid for the 2000 Olympics).

we have had to increase our loan

https://medium.com/@CharlesRichards...borrowing-more-revenue-more-nike-c42bbd42c2d1

 

[phil]

we have had to increase our loan

https://medium.com/@CharlesRichards...borrowing-more-revenue-more-nike-c42bbd42c2d1

But that is not due to Brexit which has probably only increased the cost of construction by 2-3%.

 

[Lighty64]

But that is not due to Brexit which has probably only increased the cost of construction by 2-3%.

well the cost of the whole NPD went up, and don't know which THST meeting it was, but I'm sure Donna Cullen announced the cost had increased due to Brexit, and it's weird since the vote the cost have gone up rapid. whether its Brexit or whatever the costs have gone up massive and had an impact

 

[vegassd]

Your arguments are not helped by glaring inaccuracies. Where did you get the idea that Brexit had doubled the cost of the new stadium? I have seen reports that costs have risen 6% due to Brexit but I have doubts whether it is even this much. The government's Construction Output Costs Index for new builds show an 8% increase over 2 years (about 2% above RPI for the same period). Interest rates have only increased marginally during this period.

If you are looking at the costs of the new stadium, have you considered the extra costs of having a retractable pitch or the numerous design changes. The extra costs and delays are down to ENIC wanting a state-of-the-art stadium. Was that necessary or just Daniel's ego?

The City of Manchester Stadium was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games (it was planned as an athletics arena for Manchester's aborted bid for the 2000 Olympics).

Have to say well done for being able to make a post in heavy disagreement to somebody but without throwing toys out of prams or being insulting in any way. Need more of this on the forum at the moment.

I'm guessing Lighty's thing about Brexit might have stemmed from Poch's comments in the summer about Brexit increasing the stadium costs by about 30%... although I don't want to be putting words into his/her mouth. I have no idea if the 30% figure is real or if Poch got the wrong end of the stick about something.

However, I think the overall point is that the overall finances of the club whilst building the new stadium are more complicated than some make them out to be. The club post a big boost to revenues and there's an instant cry about why they haven't spent it on players - particularly after a summer of buying nobody. But the reason to be financially conservative is that it is easier to ride out complications, like an increasingly expensive stadium build.

It's frustrating as hell to see us sign nobody during the summer but for now that's been a one-off during a time where it appears that the club still doesn't have a clear idea of the final cost of the stadium. If it becomes a new trend it's very worrying, but some Spurs fans are jumping around like it's the end of days!

 

[Lighty64]

well the cost of the whole NPD went up, and don't know which THST meeting it was, but I'm sure Donna Cullen announced the cost had increased due to Brexit, and it's weird since the vote the cost have gone up rapid. whether its Brexit or whatever the costs have gone up massive and had an impact

oh sorry @am_yisrael_chai I forgot everything in your eyes that comes out from anything involved with ENIC needs to be taken as complete bullshit, just because you reckon and hate ENIC. it's getting very tiring you and your little army of sheep following me around and just leaving neg reps.

I have asked you for proof how you think ENIC have fucked us over and all you can point to is a figure for 1 season, and have absolutely no idea of who we truly went for, and why they never signed. you seem to think you just turn up with a bucket load of cash and the player strolls into our team.

time to wake up troll mate, every single Spurs fan see us as a great club that fucked up in the transfer market. the 5 teams above us at the moment in the financial market, see us as a small club that has overachieved and we have done it on a shoestring. you might have a better understanding of finance, but you haven't a clue about football and the damage we have suffered through the delay, or failure to sell players. you expect us to go out and buy players and pay over the market price, and moan because Levy is over pricing ours.

you have no idea what these other clubs bring in compared to us in merchandise, they all bar Arsenal (though that might of changed) have bigger shirt sponsors, until last season and when we eventually have the stadium open have bigger stadiums, they all have a much bigger trophy cabinet (bought) or being in the right place when football changed. players want to sign for teams that pay top dollar, and have a chance of winning a trophy, or have a history. yes we have a history, but not on the same level.

I have already said we needed freshening up, but until I know the exact real reason why we failed, I will just get on with supporting the team I have since I knew what a football was. just because you air your views, that's all they are views and that is hate for ENIC the owners that have taken us to where we are today, and no guarantee any other owner would of got us further other than a sheik or a dirty Russian owner.

you can't provide proof just as I can't, get over it and get behind the team. if your not happy with the cost, either buy it, or don't because no one is making you spend ??? it doesn't give you a right to demand, and according to some reports because we couldn't get our targets we never went for plan B's

edit: this reply was due to his usual raitting because he doesn't agree, him and his little flock. read this and any thread that involves ENIC and it's the same 5+ people passing out the same ratings.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

oh sorry @am_yisrael_chai I forgot everything in your eyes that comes out from anything involved with ENIC needs to be taken as complete bullshit, just because you reckon and hate ENIC. it's getting very tiring you and your little army of sheep following me around and just leaving neg reps.

I have asked you for proof how you think ENIC have fucked us over and all you can point to is a figure for 1 season, and have absolutely no idea of who we truly went for, and why they never signed. you seem to think you just turn up with a bucket load of cash and the player strolls into our team.

time to wake up troll mate, every single Spurs fan see us as a great club that fucked up in the transfer market. the 5 teams above us at the moment in the financial market, see us as a small club that has overachieved and we have done it on a shoestring. you might have a better understanding of finance, but you haven't a clue about football and the damage we have suffered through the delay, or failure to sell players. you expect us to go out and buy players and pay over the market price, and moan because Levy is over pricing ours.

you have no idea what these other clubs bring in compared to us in merchandise, they all bar Arsenal (though that might of changed) have bigger shirt sponsors, until last season and when we eventually have the stadium open have bigger stadiums, they all have a much bigger trophy cabinet (bought) or being in the right place when football changed. players want to sign for teams that pay top dollar, and have a chance of winning a trophy, or have a history. yes we have a history, but not on the same level.

I have already said we needed freshening up, but until I know the exact real reason why we failed, I will just get on with supporting the team I have since I knew what a football was. just because you air your views, that's all they are views and that is hate for ENIC the owners that have taken us to where we are today, and no guarantee any other owner would of got us further other than a sheik or a dirty Russian owner.

you can't provide proof just as I can't, get over it and get behind the team. if your not happy with the cost, either buy it, or don't because no one is making you spend ??? it doesn't give you a right to demand, and according to some reports because we couldn't get our targets we never went for plan B's

Oh please, you are getting more incoherent and talking more and more nonsense. Replying to your own posts ?? Really.

I’m supporting the team, I’m going to the CL away games, are you ? It’s because I’m so invested in the club, that I care so much that I want the owners to give our best coach since Bill Nick the resources he deserves. You seem to be a supporter of our owners not the team, enjoy that.

 

[Lighty64]

@Lighty64 guess which side of this debate our manager is on....

“I think the club is not focussed on winning titles or winning games”

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tenham-hotspur-manchester-city-premier-league

I don’t see how there could be a more damning internal perspective on our owners than this.

going to watch the Football, but hope you watched his pre-match because that will shut you and your herd up

 

[Lighty64]

Oh please, you are getting more incoherent and talking more and more nonsense. Replying to your own posts ?? Really.

I’m supporting the team, I’m going to the CL away games, are you ? It’s because I’m so invested in the club, that I care so much that I want the owners to give our best coach since Bill Nick the resources he deserves. You seem to be a supporter of our owners not the team, enjoy that.

no i can't because I'm near on crippled (going to need 3 ops in hope of getting better mobility) and can't earn the living you might.

how do you know ENIC don't care? oh that's right they never spent a penny in the transfer window. why no blame for Poch refusing to have someone to help with transfers, because this was 1 summer it would of helped. you haven't a clue what happened other than failing to buy someone. if Poch wanted targets and it was made impossible other than going way over the odds, then Levy isn't wrong. how many times have I got to say it, we are already paying 28 players, how many should we pay?

oh so you forget about Keith Burkenshaw, either too young or don't know our history

edit: so 2 things why wasn't you there tonight (apologies if using wifi) and whats your reaction to Poch pre match?

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

no i can't because I'm near on crippled (going to need 3 ops in hope of getting better mobility) and can't earn the living you might.

how do you know ENIC don't care? oh that's right they never spent a penny in the transfer window. why no blame for Poch refusing to have someone to help with transfers, because this was 1 summer it would of helped. you haven't a clue what happened other than failing to buy someone. if Poch wanted targets and it was made impossible other than going way over the odds, then Levy isn't wrong. how many times have I got to say it, we are already paying 28 players, how many should we pay?

oh so you forget about Keith Burkenshaw, either too young or don't know our history

edit: so 2 things why wasn't you there tonight (apologies if using wifi) and whats your reaction to Poch pre match?

You have my sympathies. I think it best we stop engaging because it isn’t productive. COYS

 

[Lighty64]

You have my sympathies. I think it best we stop engaging because it isn’t productive. COYS

I'm crippled I don't need sympathy (not meaning to be rude), I done all my travelling in the late 70's and early 80's.

I would appreciate an answer, you and those that follow you because you mentioned you know someone involved in a possible sale, are literally following us both around and whacking me with ratings because they think your god.

go through all my post and you might even find a well known ITK has used WINNER ratings

anyway an answer to the Poch pre match didn't show your side at all, in fact if you find my post I was kind of right

 

[spursfan77]

Your arguments are not helped by glaring inaccuracies. Where did you get the idea that Brexit had doubled the cost of the new stadium? I have seen reports that costs have risen 6% due to Brexit but I have doubts whether it is even this much. The government's Construction Output Costs Index for new builds show an 8% increase over 2 years (about 2% above RPI for the same period). Interest rates have only increased marginally during this period.

If you are looking at the costs of the new stadium, have you considered the extra costs of having a retractable pitch or the numerous design changes. The extra costs and delays are down to ENIC wanting a state-of-the-art stadium. Was that necessary or just Daniel's ego?

The City of Manchester Stadium was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games (it was planned as an athletics arena for Manchester's aborted bid for the 2000 Olympics).

Or are the owners just trying to make the stadium the best it can be rather than settling for a half arsed effort after it taking 10years to get to this point. I’ve waited a decade for this stadium, the extra costs and delays are only short term. It’s the problem nowadays, everyone wants something for nothing and they want it yesterday.

 

[vegassd]

oh sorry @am_yisrael_chai I forgot everything in your eyes that comes out from anything involved with ENIC needs to be taken as complete bullshit, just because you reckon and hate ENIC. it's getting very tiring you and your little army of sheep following me around and just leaving neg reps.

I'm on the same side of the ENIC argument as you mate but there's no need to get so shirty at a fellow fan. AYC is a smart guy who has a passion for Spurs just as much as you so there's far more common ground than disagreements.

All you need do is argue to a specific point and try to respond to specific points made on the other side. If you are able to do that whilst others can't then that speaks volumes. But once it gets ranty and personal the whole debate shuts down and nobody gets to make their views heard anymore.

AYC made a point about the latest profit figure being the highest in the league and that it's an indication we should be spending at a similar level to our rival clubs. He's spot on. But then player contracts signed this summer have been at that level (Kane/Son/Lamela), and that 163m profit figure is given before debt servicing and increased costs for NWHL and Wembley are factored in. The old "play the ball, not the man" adage.

And don't ever worry about the neg reppers. It's something kind of special to spend time giving neg reps to strangers on an Internet forum without adding any opinion or justification, but people are into all sorts of kinky stuff these days!

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

I know we won't win the league without spending, but we wouldn't win the league spending £150m either, because £150 doesn't replace 2 FB's, a CM, a DM, and a striker willing to sit on the bench in hope that Kane gets injured.

Liverpool have spent nearly 3 times the amount Poch has since Klopp took over, what have they won? Sweet FA

They reached the Uefa cup final and also the champions league final. That's closer than we've been in years.

 

[Lighty64]

I'm on the same side of the ENIC argument as you mate but there's no need to get so shirty at a fellow fan. AYC is a smart guy who has a passion for Spurs just as much as you so there's far more common ground than disagreements.

All you need do is argue to a specific point and try to respond to specific points made on the other side. If you are able to do that whilst others can't then that speaks volumes. But once it gets ranty and personal the whole debate shuts down and nobody gets to make their views heard anymore.

AYC made a point about the latest profit figure being the highest in the league and that it's an indication we should be spending at a similar level to our rival clubs. He's spot on. But then player contracts signed this summer have been at that level (Kane/Son/Lamela), and that 163m profit figure is given before debt servicing and increased costs for NWHL and Wembley are factored in. The old "play the ball, not the man" adage.

And don't ever worry about the neg reppers. It's something kind of special to spend time giving neg reps to strangers on an Internet forum without adding any opinion or justification, but people are into all sorts of kinky stuff these days!

You obviously haven’t seen his replies in the same way I see them in talking down at me, also he wants people to believe him but doesn’t reply to the questions, or try to point out where someone’s view might be wrong, and has convinced a small group to follow his lead which is pretty tiring when their only contribution is to spam?

On the spending no one here wants squad fillers again, that 163m might get 1 quality by the time you get the wages involved, but the understanding of the size of squad we have, the need for HG has to come into it, also the continuos Levy won’t spend, yet know one knows if the players or clubs turned us down. Spend but not on something that is risky

 

[Lighty64]

They reached the Uefa cup final and also the champions league final. That's closer than we've been in years.

do you get a trophy for being runners up? because that's what keeps being thrown at us. so would it of made a difference if we had made it to the final all those times? we would still have the "loser tag", "don't win anything".

 

[Lilbaz]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...pending-debt-vs-manchester-city-a8608226.html

Don't expect us to be spending massive amounts on players anytime soon.

 

[vegassd]

You obviously haven’t seen his replies in the same way I see them in talking down at me, also he wants people to believe him but doesn’t reply to the questions, or try to point out where someone’s view might be wrong, and has convinced a small group to follow his lead which is pretty tiring when their only contribution is to spam?

I had the exact same thing with the same poster on that other Levy thread mate, that's why I wanted to reply to you. At the end of the day this is an Internet forum so it's going to be full of trolls and people who are more interested in ranting than debating... it's frustrating when it happens but it's all very ignorable.

To get back to the OP, this whole financial announcement feels like it's aimed more at the investment community in order to alleviate fears of the clubs long-term profitability. That's obviously not very glamorous for fans but I suppose it's a sensible move as commercial negotiations continue for things like a stadium naming rights deal and a host of other hook ups we must be looking at. The timing is of course very deliberate.

The business side of things doesn't interest a lot of fans but I do think it's important for the long-term success of the club on the pitch. That hasn't manifested in £50m new signings yet but it is at least coming through in terms of player contracts. I'm not sure if there's a concrete figure for Alli's salary floating about but it would make sense to be in the 140-150k range. Very happy for that trend to continue.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Levy's job is to grow the club.

Our turnover has gone from £200 million to £305 million, to £380 million.
Next season, with the stadium fully online, it will be knocking on the door of £500 million.
That's Bayern Munich levels of income which is his primary objective and why he has earnt his bonuses.

Once the stadium is paid off we'll be in the top six/seven earners in the world. A few years ago we were only just in the top 20.

Yeah, you don't get any trophies for that but at least we will be in a position to compete for the decades to come.
Whether that's under Levy or not I have no idea but it's his drive/vision that will have got us there.
Being risk averse may or may not have cost us a position or two in the league, or possible CL qualification this season but it will guarantee the long term goal.

Again, it's shit treading water for a couple of seasons after a few seasons of an upward trajectory but a bit of pain now will be worth it in the long run.
The long term security of the club is far more important than our desperation for another league cup.

 

[Lilbaz]

Levy's job is to grow the club.

Our turnover has gone from £200 million to £305 million, to £380 million.
Next season, with the stadium fully online, it will be knocking on the door of £500 million.
That's Bayern Munich levels of income which is his primary objective and why he has earnt his bonuses.

Once the stadium is paid off we'll be in the top six/seven earners in the world. A few years ago we were only just in the top 20.

Yeah, you don't get any trophies for that but at least we will be in a position to compete for the decades to come.
Whether that's under Levy or not I have no idea but it's his drive/vision that will have got us there.
Being risk averse may or may not have cost us a position or two in the league, or possible CL qualification this season but it will guarantee the long term goal.

Again, it's shit treading water for a couple of seasons after a few seasons of an upward trajectory but a bit of pain now will be worth it in the long run.
The long term security of the club is far more important than our desperation for another league cup.

Not sure how you get it going to £500m. We sold season tickets for the new stadium this year.

 

[LeParisien]

Just to put this in context if we compare our 2018 results with the last reported results for other clubs for 2017 we have the 4th highest revenue - only goons, City and Utd have higher - and unsurprisingly the highest profits by a country mile. The difference in our revenue and profi rankings just confirms the lack of investment in the team by our owners. Even if we assume other clubs will have higher revenues in 2018 I guarantee you we will be very close to Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal so the notion we can’t compete in transfers or wages is just utter nonsense. This was all entirely predictable but when I’ve said it before lots of posters here have continued to maintain we are way behind our competitors financially when in fact the reverse is true.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/06/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2016-17

You might be able to guarantee that but the last set of like for like financial results shows we are in fact some way behind all of the rest of the top 6. Different leagues. And that’s before you factor in the stadium.



That’s some good info for you to get stuck into if you are amenable to evidence.