Last Bit of UEFA Chat

[ScotBear]

I was there and I was not drinking myself into oblivion unlike the vast vast vast vast majority of Rangers fans who have a very poor reputation in Manchester after the last time they played Manchester United and started trouble in a variety of bars.

You are clinging to the belief that because quite a few people were not wearing Rangers shirts in the attack on the police officer that slipped then they were not Rangers fans. Rubbish. Rangers fans in replica shirts were posing next to smashed cars, I witnessed 3 separate assaults in the space of 1 hour by fans in replica shirts that all went unreported to the media and the police. The police ran out of handcuffs when it came to arresting the fans and all day there was trouble from the Rangers fans as they ripped of the trims and booted off wing mirrors off cars both parked and moving.

The fact is had the Rangers fans not rioted then the papers would have been talking about all the offensive sectarian chanting and racist abuse spewing from these so called football fans. Scum.

Scum.......getting very emotive

You are just generalising the entire support based on a riot involving 200 people and some pockets of trouble you witnessed in a city that was holding 200,000 supporters.

In any city centre on any Friday or Saturday night you will get trouble. On any away trip involving football fans you will get trouble (even if not always arrests).

It's just so naive to hold your hand to your forehead in despair at the thought that 200,000 supporters descending on a city caused problems, and in some instances serious problems.

Still, the bottom line is that the overwhelming majority behaved themselves, and the police who were out and force all over the city all day have praised that majority of fans. It's not that they failed to see any trouble besides the riots, it's just that unlike yourself they seem to live in the real world ! :wink:

Manchester was a unique situation with that number of fans being in the one city, and also the 'easy access' for the thugs and idiots that don't usually follow the team in any way, but could easily jump down for a showcase party.

In our other 8 or 9 away trips this season, we've had no arrests or reports of violent behaviour. That's been our record under normal circumstances.

As for racist chanting......define racist, because it's a very general term and I don't know where on earth you're going with that.

Sectarian.....yeah, some fans still indulge in that. Is the F the Pope any worse than F the Queen though ? Both could be dressed up as political chants. But then both can be interpreted as digs at the churches they represent.

As for the billy boys and the word 'fenian'. There is a hardcore that still believe that there is nothing wrong with it. It refers to mainland terrorism, something we all faced the real threat of once upon a time, and was a relevant song back in the day. In the west of scotland, it's been used and interpreted down the years as a derogotary word for catholic, so it's now been stamped out from football grounds. The argument from the hardcore is factually correct, it's just that in modern society in the west of scotland idiots have altered the meaning. The same with Celtic fans calling us 'huns'. Which I can handle, I'm thick skinned. Their vocal support for the murdering IRA is harder to swallow though.

I don't think you have a grasp of the issues, Old Firm life or numbers. And I'm struggling to see why you've reached the point of throwing words like 'scum' around.

Like I said earlier, recent figures show Tottenham fans to have been guilty of the highest number of 'violent assaults' out of all Premiership teams. Is it reasonable for me to go around calling your fans scum or viewing you as a violent group that we'd all have to be wary of ? I don't think so.

 

[Kevealis]

I was there and I was not drinking myself into oblivion unlike the vast vast vast vast majority of Rangers fans who have a very poor reputation in Manchester after the last time they played Manchester United and started trouble in a variety of bars.

You are clinging to the belief that because quite a few people were not wearing Rangers shirts in the attack on the police officer that slipped then they were not Rangers fans. Rubbish. Rangers fans in replica shirts were posing next to smashed cars, I witnessed 3 separate assaults in the space of 1 hour by fans in replica shirts that all went unreported to the media and the police. The police ran out of handcuffs when it came to arresting the fans and all day there was trouble from the Rangers fans as they ripped of the trims and booted off wing mirrors off cars both parked and moving.

The fact is had the Rangers fans not rioted then the papers would have been talking about all the offensive sectarian chanting and racist abuse spewing from these so called football fans. Scum.

I was going to reply to this until you managed to finish it off calling me "scum". I wont bother anymore.

 

[GeneralBurk]

Scum.......getting very emotive

You are just generalising the entire support based on a riot involving 200 people and some pockets of trouble you witnessed in a city that was holding 200,000 supporters.

In any city centre on any Friday or Saturday night you will get trouble. On any away trip involving football fans you will get trouble (even if not always arrests).

It's just so naive to hold your hand to your forehead in despair at the thought that 200,000 supporters descending on a city caused problems, and in some instances serious problems.

Still, the bottom line is that the overwhelming majority behaved themselves, and the police who were out and force all over the city all day have praised that majority of fans. It's not that they failed to see any trouble besides the riots, it's just that unlike yourself they seem to live in the real world ! :wink:

Manchester was a unique situation with that number of fans being in the one city, and also the 'easy access' for the thugs and idiots that don't usually follow the team in any way, but could easily jump down for a showcase party.

In our other 8 or 9 away trips this season, we've had no arrests or reports of violent behaviour. That's been our record under normal circumstances.

As for racist chanting......define racist, because it's a very general term and I don't know where on earth you're going with that.

Sectarian.....yeah, some fans still indulge in that. Is the F the Pope any worse than F the Queen though ? Both could be dressed up as political chants. But then both can be interpreted as digs at the churches they represent.

As for the billy boys and the word 'fenian'. There is a hardcore that still believe that there is nothing wrong with it. It refers to mainland terrorism, something we all faced the real threat of once upon a time, and was a relevant song back in the day. In the west of scotland, it's been used and interpreted down the years as a derogotary word for catholic, so it's now been stamped out from football grounds. The argument from the hardcore is factually correct, it's just that in modern society in the west of scotland idiots have altered the meaning. The same with Celtic fans calling us 'huns'. Which I can handle, I'm thick skinned. Their vocal support for the murdering IRA is harder to swallow though.

I don't think you have a grasp of the issues, Old Firm life or numbers. And I'm struggling to see why you've reached the point of throwing words like 'scum' around.

Like I said earlier, recent figures show Tottenham fans to have been guilty of the highest number of 'violent assaults' out of all Premiership teams. Is it reasonable for me to go around calling your fans scum or viewing you as a violent group that we'd all have to be wary of ? I don't think so.

I not making it a competition of who has the most horrible fans, as it happens I've seen a load of low brow tossers chanting racist abuse in a pub where all the bar staff were black just outside White Hart Lane singing that Sol Campbell was an ape and excusing it by declaring, "We're not racist we just hate Sol Campbell".

My reference to "scum" was in referring to the sectarian chanting fans that were following Rangers that day and the racist abuse I witnessed when black memebers of my staff were subjected to a variety of abuse and being declared not British just because Rangers were losing. Oh and having lived and worked in Glasgow I am fully aware that certain Celtic fans are just as bad. I don't however wish to generalise that all Rangers fans are so minded. What I found difficult to stomach is the white washing that appears to be happening by people trying to excuse Rangers fans and deflect blame away on the basis that some individuals involved in the rioting are not wearing replica shirts.

 

[GeneralBurk]

I was going to reply to this until you managed to finish it off calling me "scum". I wont bother anymore.

As I said in the previous post those that made sectarian chants, screamed racist abuse and involved themselves in the rioting are scum.

 

[Blotto]

Scum.......getting very emotive

You are just generalising the entire support based on a riot involving 200 people and some pockets of trouble you witnessed in a city that was holding 200,000 supporters.

In any city centre on any Friday or Saturday night you will get trouble. On any away trip involving football fans you will get trouble (even if not always arrests).

It's just so naive to hold your hand to your forehead in despair at the thought that 200,000 supporters descending on a city caused problems, and in some instances serious problems.

Still, the bottom line is that the overwhelming majority behaved themselves, and the police who were out and force all over the city all day have praised that majority of fans. It's not that they failed to see any trouble besides the riots, it's just that unlike yourself they seem to live in the real world ! :wink:

Manchester was a unique situation with that number of fans being in the one city, and also the 'easy access' for the thugs and idiots that don't usually follow the team in any way, but could easily jump down for a showcase party.

In our other 8 or 9 away trips this season, we've had no arrests or reports of violent behaviour. That's been our record under normal circumstances.

As for racist chanting......define racist, because it's a very general term and I don't know where on earth you're going with that.

Sectarian.....yeah, some fans still indulge in that. Is the F the Pope any worse than F the Queen though ? Both could be dressed up as political chants. But then both can be interpreted as digs at the churches they represent.

As for the billy boys and the word 'fenian'. There is a hardcore that still believe that there is nothing wrong with it. It refers to mainland terrorism, something we all faced the real threat of once upon a time, and was a relevant song back in the day. In the west of scotland, it's been used and interpreted down the years as a derogotary word for catholic, so it's now been stamped out from football grounds. The argument from the hardcore is factually correct, it's just that in modern society in the west of scotland idiots have altered the meaning. The same with Celtic fans calling us 'huns'. Which I can handle, I'm thick skinned. Their vocal support for the murdering IRA is harder to swallow though.

I don't think you have a grasp of the issues, Old Firm life or numbers. And I'm struggling to see why you've reached the point of throwing words like 'scum' around.

Like I said earlier, recent figures show Tottenham fans to have been guilty of the highest number of 'violent assaults' out of all Premiership teams. Is it reasonable for me to go around calling your fans scum or viewing you as a violent group that we'd all have to be wary of ? I don't think so.

:bs: To my knowledge there has never been an IRA attack on Scottish soil, nor Welsh for that matter. Political mythologies from either side of the sectarian divide can not be substituted for fact.

 

[ScotBear]

:bs: To my knowledge there has never been an IRA attack on Scottish soil, nor Welsh for that matter. Political mythologies from either side of the sectarian divide can not be substituted for fact.

Are we not all British ? Are we not all run by the same central government ?

Because 9/11 occurred in New York, was that merely an attack on New York rather than the US ?

It is indeed fact because the word 'f*nian' doesn't actually mean a derogatory word for a catholic. Not in it's original context and not in the context it is used across the world, including England. Only through time did the meaning change and only in this part of the world (West of Scotland and Ireland).

The billy boy has been sung for generations, long before idiots started using the 'F' word out of context.

 

[Yid-ol]

Are we not all British ? .

Only when it seems to be of benefit :shrug: most the time scots seem to deni being british, especialy when england fans ahve any trouble

 

[Blotto]

Are we not all British ? Are we not all run by the same central government ?

Because 9/11 occurred in New York, was that merely an attack on New York rather than the US ?

It is indeed fact because the word 'f*nian' doesn't actually mean a derogatory word for a catholic. Not in it's original context and not in the context it is used across the world, including England. Only through time did the meaning change and only in this part of the world (West of Scotland and Ireland).

The billy boy has been sung for generations, long before idiots started using the 'F' word out of context.

Terrible analogy. Absolutely terrible.

 

[TheChosenOne]

The 26 counties of the Irish Republic are not British, not since 1921, although severeal of my relations from the R of I fought and died in both WW 1 & 2 for the British Army.

 

[LSUY]

Terrible analogy. Absolutely terrible.

How is that a terrible analogy?

 

[Yid-ol]

How is that a terrible analogy?

Because the attacks on the Twin towers were attacks on symbols of the USA, They also attacked other places in USA that had big meaning to USA so much liek his argument, he looks at only one thing and cant see the bigger picture.

As i said befor, in scotland it's the English thugs when anything goes wrong with the fans, they make a big fuss saying how well behaved the scottish fans are and all that (and normaly cover up any spats...this does happen befor anyone tries to deni it) ask any scotsman (or the majority) if they are scottish or british, they will reply with scotish!

 

[KentuckyYid]

When I was a regular at WHL in the 80's hooligans never wore colours. It was all skinhead then casuals in Pringle's etc. Never did the hooligans wear club shirts. Saying that the mob in Manchester weren't in blue doesn't mean a thing...

It is unfair that a small minority bought shame onto the club but it is what it is and trying to blame hooligans from other clubs (some of whom probably were there) is being in denial. That doesn't mean Rangers fans are scum. All clubs have their scum but they don't represent the club right?

 

[GeneralBurk]

When I was a regular at WHL in the 80's hooligans never wore colours. It was all skinhead then casuals in Pringle's etc. Never did the hooligans wear club shirts. Saying that the mob in Manchester weren't in blue doesn't mean a thing...

It is unfair that a small minority bought shame onto the club but it is what it is and trying to blame hooligans from other clubs (some of whom probably were there) is being in denial. That doesn't mean Rangers fans are scum. All clubs have their scum but they don't represent the club right?

As I clarified in my previous post "scum" is reserved for those involved in racist and sectarian abuse and in addition rioting and random violence borne of frustration from losing. I actually had invited friends 70+ from Glasgow for the game and they simply supported their team all day and unfortuately left dissapointed.

 

[Kevealis]

Because the attacks on the Twin towers were attacks on symbols of the USA, They also attacked other places in USA that had big meaning to USA so much liek his argument, he looks at only one thing and cant see the bigger picture.

As i said befor, in scotland it's the English thugs when anything goes wrong with the fans, they make a big fuss saying how well behaved the scottish fans are and all that (and normaly cover up any spats...this does happen befor anyone tries to deni it) ask any scotsman (or the majority) if they are scottish or british, they will reply with scotish!

Sweeping generalisation based purely on your interpritation of the tartan army. I am scottish, british and proud. As are a majority of Rangers fans (again, i dont want to go into the politics etc of it).

In relation to the other fans there stuff...i never once said rangers fans werent involved. In fact, ive said several times they were and that they are a disgrace to the club. But other fans were there and did play a significant part in the trouble.

 

[Yid-ol]

Sweeping generalisation based purely on your interpritation of the tartan army. I am scottish, british and proud. As are a majority of Rangers fans (again, i dont want to go into the politics etc of it).

In relation to the other fans there stuff...i never once said rangers fans werent involved. In fact, ive said several times they were and that they are a disgrace to the club. But other fans were there and did play a significant part in the trouble.

Rangers fans are just about the only ones who would say they are british, but the majority of scots say they are scottish and not british, its just seems to be how it is up here... i hear it all the time

how can you know? they might not be fans of any teams and started it, they may have been rangers fans behind the main part of it. Rangers fans didnt have to do what they did, even if other fans started it, they did and now they should have something done about it.

 

[Kevealis]

Rangers fans are just about the only ones who would say they are british, but the majority of scots say they are scottish and not british, its just seems to be how it is up here... i hear it all the time

how can you know? they might not be fans of any teams and started it, they may have been rangers fans behind the main part of it. Rangers fans didnt have to do what they did, even if other fans started it, they did and now they should have something done about it.

ive said that time and time again in this thread. Getting boring now.

And UEFA cant do anything about it because it wasnt in the stadium

 

[Yid-ol]

ive said that time and time again in this thread. Getting boring now.

And UEFA cant do anything about it because it wasnt in the stadium

if its getting boring, you dont have to reply, and i have never said you had said it

and i am sure that Uefa can step in if there is trouble outside the stadium's if they know that its a club behind it, just like Uefa and Fifa could and have threatoned to throw England out of competitions because of fans behavious in the streets

 

[KentuckyYid]

If it had been English hooligans running riot in Glasgow UEFA would have done something about it by banning or more threats of banning. They've never hid their dislike of English fans that much I'm sure of.

Other countries such as Turkey can literally get away with murder while the Spanish get away with rampant racism etc.

Lets hope UEFA don't get a whiff of English hooligans were involved in Manchester or they'll find the power to do something about it.

 

[Kevealis]

UEFA have already said they cant take action. And they dont exactly like rangers fans either! We got fined for the Spannish police attacking our fans last season! (and before i get the "rangers fans are a disgrace" lines, we all know the spannish police are a disgrace, especially when brittish clubs are involved).