Lennon v Bentley

[Rackybear]

But in those 5-10 minutes he was infinitely more effective than Bentley. We struggled to get him the ball after that. I think Lennons one of the few players who can hold his head up high after the awful start we've made.

Hold is head up high for doing what? Recieving the ball and looking like he is doing something productive by running with it at pace. Perhaps bale and zokora deserve some credit too. He can hold his head up high if he makes a contribution that actually means something to us in terms of getting results, but he hasn't.

Perhaps he should have had a penalty, and ok he did set up a goal in the uefa cup - but who was on the end of it? Bentley, so their is an argument for them both.

But apart from his pace, he offers little. If he continues to do what he has done so far for the rest of the season would you be happy? I wouldn't, I expect more goals, more assists and a better delivery, its not too much to ask is it? Lennon is supposed to be one of the best and most feared wingers in the league, but if I was a left back, id let him run past me and save my energy - after all, his cross will most likely hit the first defender.

Perhaps just a little bit of exaggeration, but in general, its like this..

 

[ShelfSide18]

Hold is head up high for doing what? Recieving the ball and looking like he is doing something productive by running with it at pace. Perhaps bale and zokora deserve some credit too. He can hold his head up high if he makes a contribution that actually means something to us in terms of getting results, but he hasn't.

Perhaps he should have had a penalty, and ok he did set up a goal in the uefa cup - but who was on the end of it? Bentley, so their is an argument for them both.

But apart from his pace, he offers little. If he continues to do what he has done so far for the rest of the season would you be happy? I wouldn't, I expect more goals, more assists and a better delivery, its not too much to ask is it? Lennon is supposed to be one of the best and most feared wingers in the league, but if I was a left back, id let him run past me and save my energy - after all, his cross will most likely hit the first defender.

Perhaps just a little bit of exaggeration, but in general, its like this..

Your probably right y'know, I just think he has been our most dangerous player so far this season - but that probably says more about the inadequacies of our other attacking players rather than how good he's been!

He has shown a willingness to dig in and track back though which should be acknowledged but no you're right he needs to make more meaningful contributions at the business end - I just think he has been one of the few who is trying more than most to dig us out of this hole and deserves to start against Newcastle. Fair?

 

[DC_Boy]

lennon was unlucky with the pen decision - but the bare facts are still this - one assist no goals all season - not the mark of an offensive mid/winger on top form

bentley still leads with a goal and an assist

lennon had a good chance to score but his shot was typically wayward

by all means let him start instead of bentley on wed - but let's see some decent crosses/shots even if scoring/creating isn't his forte

 

[Rackybear]

Your probably right y'know, I just think he has been our most dangerous player so far this season - but that probably says more about the inadequacies of our other attacking players rather than how good he's been!

He has shown a willingness to dig in and track back though which should be acknowledged but no you're right he needs to make more meaningful contributions at the business end - I just think he has been one of the few who is trying more than most to dig us out of this hole and deserves to start against Newcastle. Fair?

This.

Lennon looks like our best player at the moment typically because the rest have been so poor. We have failed to score goals or create oppurtunites, so naturally when we see one of our players get the ball and run at the opposition defence and cause some problems - we will feel he is a cut above the rest.

However, running at people at pace is Lennon's natural game, and is something he will try and do whether we are winning / losing / drawing and regardless of him being in good or bad form. Fair enough though yes.

I also agree with DC_BOY. At the moment yes he does look like our most threatning player, and that just might help spur on the other lads and perhaps make Bentley step up to the plate and try harder if he gets dropped for a game or two. Like I said earlier, Bentley is a more complete player, and whilst he cannot beat a man like Lennon, he can pass, shoot and deliver a ball like Lennon cant. Bentley is the player we want on the right hand side on the long term, but his lack of pace and guile needs to be balanced by having an attacking full back (hutton) and someone who can offer the pace, speed and delivery on the left (bale / capel?).

 

[ShelfSide18]

This.

Lennon looks like our best player at the moment typically because the rest have been so poor. We have failed to score goals or create oppurtunites, so naturally when we see one of our players get the ball and run at the opposition defence and cause some problems - we will feel he is a cut above the rest.

However, running at people at pace is Lennon's natural game, and is something he will try and do whether we are winning / losing / drawing and regardless of him being in good or bad form. Fair enough though yes.

I also agree with DC_BOY. At the moment yes he does look like our most threatning player, and that just might help spur on the other lads and perhaps make Bentley step up to the plate and try harder if he gets dropped for a game or two. Like I said earlier, Bentley is a more complete player, and whilst he cannot beat a man like Lennon, he can pass, shoot and deliver a ball like Lennon cant. Bentley is the player we want on the right hand side on the long term, but his lack of pace and guile needs to be balanced by having an attacking full back (hutton) and someone who can offer the pace, speed and delivery on the left (bale / capel?).

Yep you and DC are right. I suppose I have a slight affinity for Lennon as well - I love wingers who beat their man and give me a sense of excitement and I think sometimes the criticism of him is well overboard. He's still very young too, younger than O Hara, our current breakthrough award holder and the things he lacks are things that often come with maturity. Speed, the ability to turn on a sixpence and skill you cannot teach so he is very much worth sticking with.

I also stand by the fact that as a defender you'd prefer to be up against Bentley than Lennon, I played left back for my school team and there's nothing worse than being left on your arse ( In front of the school team wags!) by a flying pacy winger!

 

[Rackybear]

I also stand by the fact that as a defender you'd prefer to be up against Bentley than Lennon, I played left back for my school team and there's nothing worse than being left on your arse ( In front of the school team wags!) by a flying pacy winger!

Yeah thats a good point, as a full back id much rather be facing Bentley then Lennon - thats a given. However....

Football is a team game, and you need to ask yourself, as a team who would you prefer to come up against, and the answer to that is Lennon. Although the fullback might prefer an un-pacey winger, im sure the central defenders and goalkeeper will not be too happy about the potential influx of deliveries they may have to deal with, with a player like Bentley.

Bentley is also technically superior to Lennon, and has the ability to be a match winner. He is taller, bigger, stronger and will help more on the defencive side to our game as well.

Its so frustrating, because what lennon has really is something special. But for all his pace and ability to beat a man, he will be tottally ineffective for spurs if it cannot lead to a goal or decent oppurtunity.

Like you said, things can come to your game with maturity, but his pace and ability to turn on a six pence is not something you can learn. People sometimes say - "look at cristiano ronaldo in his early days, all showboating and no end product, lennon will follow in the same path". I dont agree with this, I dont think ronaldo's problem was ever his delivery and ability to put in a good ball. He just didnt know when and when not to do his step-overs and tricks, he did not know when to release the ball and when to stop trying to entertain the crowd. Now he understands the importance of winning matches, and using his skill and tricks in situations where it will benefit the team or lead to a goal.

With lennon, he knows when to release the ball, he knows when to pass and when to cross - the problem is, he is just not very good at it, and in 3 years has not improved at all.

 

[DC_Boy]

some good points all round - as I say I have no problems in Lennon starting on wed - but for me that means dropping bentley

it also means, is it worth playing two strikers given Lennon's usual crossing problems?

changing one thing can lead to other changes

maybe bent on his own upf ront wed? but he's being asked to play a lot of games - campbell on his own - risky - pav mmmm

good luck to JR in picking Wed team

 

[ShelfSide18]

Football is a team game, and you need to ask yourself, as a team who would you prefer to come up against, and the answer to that is Lennon. Although the fullback might prefer an un-pacey winger, im sure the central defenders and goalkeeper will not be too happy about the potential influx of deliveries they may have to deal with, with a player like Bentley.

I was going to add this bit, you're totally right.

One thing that must be held into consideration though, is that with Lennon you pre-occupy the oppo's full back - his mere presence can prevent the full back from bombing forward himself at the risk of getting caught out, with Bentley its less of an issue. Secondly, with players like Lennon, every team will double mark him, he's to dangerous to leave one poor sod to keep him quiet so this opens gaps up for others to exploit. This is an enjoyable discussion.

 

[RamboRoberts]

It's arguable that the course of Walnutt's entire career has been changed by scoring a hattrick for England where the opposition goalie dived over one ordinary shot, and Theo took another chance with his left foot because his right boot had disintegrated and he was too superstitious (and too unprofessional) to change it for proper footware.

Capello did not pick Walnutt against Croatia on club form. However, now the guy is super confident, and the strengths of his game - pace, decent technique - are able to shine. The one thing I would attribute to Whinger is a consistent formation. The goon 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 is remarkably consistent. The wide midfielders are coached to run inside (not outside) opposition FBs, and the CMs and strikers look to play them in on goal. So Walnutt knows what he's expected to do, and the team know where he should be at all times.

I'm sure Walnutt has also benefitted from watching Henry in training and matches, because their core strengths are very similar.

Lennon's fundamental problem is his technique. He does not strike the ball cleanly, and this negatively affects his crossing and his finishing. Lennon also hasn't been helped by the fact that we have had no consistent formation or pattern of play in recent times, and the only constant - Berba & Keane up front - is a thing of the past.

Whatever - Walnutt is currently super confident; Lennon is playing very well given our team's confidence is shot and the formation changes from match to match.

:clap::clap:

Well said. We need to keep consistent roles for these guys to gel. Lennon needs options when he starts to get going.

 

[Rackybear]

I was going to add this bit, you're totally right.

One thing that must be held into consideration though, is that with Lennon you pre-occupy the oppo's full back - his mere presence can prevent the full back from bombing forward himself at the risk of getting caught out, with Bentley its less of an issue. Secondly, with players like Lennon, every team will double mark him, he's to dangerous to leave one poor sod to keep him quiet so this opens gaps up for others to exploit. This is an enjoyable discussion.

We can clearly see now that both Bentley and Lennon have their pro's and con's, and in more ways then one as you correctly pointed out above.

Perhaps why we have seen Bentley deployed on the right and Lennon on the left in the same starting 11.

But its reasons like this that Juande Ramos is the manager of spurs, and not Rackybear. Its a tough call picking between these two, but at the end of the day he see's them in training everyday and is most knowledgable in making this decision, so ill leave it to him and trust what he does :razz:

Good discussion indeed. :up:

 

[jamesc0le]

it's the idiots who have constantly moaned and questioned Lennons ability over the last 2 seasons that have caused him to stop progressing and suffer highly irregular form. if they could just STFU and let him play he could carry on causing problems for opposition defences ,providing assists and being part of goal scoring moves as he always has done.

my best lennon moment was when he back heel volleyed berba's cross into tainio's path for a great volley. (while we are on the subject )

he won a pen as soon as he came on today but it wasn't given:-|

 

[guy]

i cant believe some people are still slating lennon but praising bentley!

Lennon has been one of bright sparks(theres not been many). He works hard, tracks back and is our best attacking weapon at the moment by far.

bentley has been rubbish and doesnt deserve to start until he picks up (which im sure he will when he settles)

We need to win games now and cant afford to blood players into the team when there is a better option already settled

Lennon must start against newcastle!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flatters]

.........maybe so but his final ball is still shocking and his end product at the moment is no better than Bentley, who has at least scored a goal

No question he's gone backwards from that amazing player that 1st burst on the scene over 2 seasons ago!

No, I think the irony is that even though Lennon's crossing isn't great, and everyone obviously slates him for it, Bentley's has still been worse, and that's what Bentley's meant to be best at!

Lennon will always give something to the team, even if it's not much and just really a case of giving the team some pace and threatening the opponent.

If Lennon's final ball is still poor, he'll still at the very least endanger the opponent. If Bentley's final ball is poor, he got nothing.

 

[guy]

thats right flatters.

Are you others forgetting that lennon teed up bentleys goal the other night, and then (if it wasnt for shite reffing) won us a penalty yesterday? thats 2 assists in two appearances, what more do you want?

and he provides an outlet, which is probably the most important thing

 

[NP4_Yid]

bentley has a poor start and still his end product has been superior

Personally I think Bentley's final ball is absolutely shocking - corners, freekicks, crosses are all extremely poor. Wasn't his ability supply to forwards why we bought him?

At least Lennon will cause some problems running with pace at defenders.

Surely both of them should spend a lot of time on the training ground practising their delivery. It isn't the most difficult thing in football to get the ball roughly to where you want it. Jonny Wilkinson/Neil Jenkins/any professional rugby player who takes kicks will spend hours kicking the egg on the training ground and it seems to work for them.

 

[wooderz]

Bentley's final ball hasn't been great, but whats the point of lennon beating his man, getting to the byline, crossing the ball..........goal kick? Surely that just deflates everyone, and they'll be looking up to receive a ball and thinking, oh it's Lennon, give up on that one then

 

[Coyboy]

People quoting statistics are missing the point and not adding much to the discussion. I am with Flatters. Anyone who says Lennon cannot cross is not helping the discussion. He can do, he has done and I am sure it is on the youtube video. He doesn't do it consistently but he can do it. He is still young, two years Bentley's junior and once he gets a run in the side and gets to know Bent and Pav better- the runs they make, how quick they are and so on he will improve his final ball. It is dispiriting to see the likes of Walcott and SWP play so well (the entire City game was depressing last night) but the latter is older and the former is playing in a terrific team. It is admirable that Lennon is playing so well in a misfiring team.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hi NP4 - Bentley poor start agreed - but still 1 goal and 1 assist to Lennon's one assist - and this is Lennon during his 'best spurs player ATM' phase according to some

can see why lennon should start on wed - but I still need convincing he's better than Bentley -

in the long run i'm backing Bentley to be better than Lennon - may be mistaken of course

 

[joey55]

At the moment SWP is playing much better than both of them.

 

[Coyboy]

But Joey, he is at his peak age.