Man United Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[ajspurs]

It was one of those games in which the match could still be being played now and we still wouldn't have scored. We're so clueless in the final 3rd when a team is just sitting back. It was the same against Chelsea in the final, just clueless with the ball in an attacking and chance creation sense.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

s

Correct- people will analyse the defending but be in no doubt, other than Kane potentially, not one attacking player at the club would get in a 'top 4' team, and I don't think many would make the bench.

This was known in the summer and was not addressed. This was also evident in January and was not addressed. I doubt it will be addressed properly this summer, as we will adopt "Saving pennies, but wasting Pounds" mentality. We'll chase players all summer, only to default to players who are cheaper, younger and 3rd or 4th choice.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Too many players froze.

The most important thing is, we learn.

They need to get people to learn react to situation on the pitch, Walker was left to hang, very poor from Townsend.

Shame we have said it about 20 times a season for the lat 20 seasons.

I would like to hear "It's football, you cant win every game", now and then when we have been consistently not shit for once.

 

[DiscoD1882]

cold light of day. We got caught in a Manure shit storm yesterday. The midfield was over run and we never recovered. lets move on and smash Leicester.

 

[StartingPrice]

That's right

Give it up

I seem to remember you writing long thesis on how we have a great chance of finishing ahead of the goons in 11-12 & 12-13

That did not happen

And it will not happen now not with a defence as leaky as this one is

Well, that's a phenomenal memory you have:

1) The key phrase here is a great chance of and not we absolutely will. And if I remember rightly we were fecking close. Yeah, that's right FECKING CLOSE.

2) Here are some other long thesis I have written on here:
Around 2006/2007 I predicted that there would cease to be a Sky 4, that we would move more towards a Big Five again, or maybe even a Big Six, and that, except for a couple of real powerhouses, the other teams would move in and out of the top four positions, sometimes getting CL and sometimes not. This was before Citeh inherited a fortune, as well. Do you remember that one? How is it working out?

When we hadn't finished above Liverpool since forever, I absolutely stated that I believed we would finish above them in 2009 and, for the first time, having never placed a bet on finishing league position before, I put money on us finishing in the top four at the start of the season. Do you remember that one? How did it work out?

When we were outside the top four and had to play Chelsea and the Goons within three days, the week after losing to Pompey in the Cup semi, and then play away to Citeh, I said we could beat them and I thought that we would. Do you remember that one? How did it work out?

The subsequent four years, when everyone else was saying that finishing above Liverpool was a one off, I said we could and quite possibly would finish above them again. Do you remember them? How did they work out?

I make bold predictions and sometimes they are wrong. What, exactly do you do?

3) I handled it above with a bit of a joke vid, but, frankly, if you can't understand that most predictors had us losing to United but still being very close to the top four, so losing to United, in itself, hardly ends our chances, that's your problem. And if you can't understand that all our rivals, by dint of having to play one another and Chelsea, will absolutely lose points, whereas we should be favourites, technically, in nearly all our remaining games, that is your issue. What is important now isn't having lost to United but how we bounce back from United. Personally, while things are mathematically possible I tend not to give up...can't say about you.

How about you give us some idea of your thoughts on things rather than flapping about doom-mongering because we lost a game and attacking anyone with your mighty memory who dares to point out that technically it isn't the end of things. But, then, maybe, your are scared that I might give you some hope that may then be shattered, and you just can't face that. Me, I learned long ago that there are ups and downs, rough with smooth, and sometimes, frankly football teams, even good ones, lose matches. So I am prepared to live with the fact that we are outsides and the odds most certainly are not on our side but that we still may have a chance if we bounce back - and if my little bit of hope is dashed, who knows, I might have a nice meal to pick myself up after feeling a bit miserable for a while. But don't worry, I am fully expecting some of the selectively long-memory brigade to hurl this post back in my face if and when we finish outside the top four (of which there is probably a 90% to 95% chance of happening, if not more). Fortunately, in my former real gambling days I had some longer shots than that come in - perhaps most famously when I backed Rex Williams to beat Steve Davis 5-1 when Steve Davis was beating the chuff fluff off anyone that even looked at a snooker table.

COYS

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Football is not as simple as "we can't score, therefore our strikers are weak; we can't defend, therefore our back line is weak." While it's true we could do with improvement along the back line, that doesn't absolve the players ahead of them in their responsibilities for shielding the back line, especially in a high line format.

The issue is not about who defends, plays in midfield or in attack. It's about adopting a system to play different teams. Poch plays 4-2-3-1 no matter who we play, and he even plays this system at home where teams in general just sit deep. Yesterday was a prime example where he expected to stroll into Old Trafford and play as if it were against Burnley at Turf Moor.

For anyone to suggest that we don't have a problem (and we have done since game one of the season) with our back four is in denial of the facts.

 

[walworthyid]

Some people make some absolutely stupid comments they really do! We lost! Has anybody ever noticed that when Arsenal have a really bad result (8-2 away to united for example) they then go on a run of title winning form? They do this EVERY season, you want to know the difference between the 2 clubs, that's it! They lose, the world doesn't suddenly end. They learn, they move on, they improve.

Let's just hope that Poch and the players aren't as pathetic and weak-minded as some of the posters in this thread!

Match lost

Move on and win the next game

/thread

 

[shelfboy68]

I really dont know why he didnt play a midfield three of bentaleb,stambouli and dembele with say chadli,erikson and kane further forward.
This surely would have gave us better protection than what we had and the game would have lasted longer than the first 20 minutes when the second goal went in at which point it was game over and i turned off.
Someone at the club must see that away to chelsea,city,Liverpool and Utd we have conceded three or more goals in each game, clearly there is a set up problem leaving us far too exposed against the better players/teams.

 

[Sweetsman]

If you haven't had one meaningful attempt on their goal after 60 minutes, it's not really full backs, center halves, or DMs that are the problem. It's our attacking play. And bringing on lamela as a potential game changer is laughable. We did nothing worthwhile going forward because we left Kane toiling away in isolation. Potch's plan B is an issue, or at least his instruction to the field to address where things are going wrong with plan A, the only plan.He could have done worse than put adebayor up top with Kane as number 10 much earlier to get a better foothold, and put their defense out of their comfort. Smalling looked like a bloody world beater against us.

Until Potch puts a run together of five or six wins on the trot, as Jol and Redknapp did, I'll be skeptical of his longer term suitability for us. Having said that, those two did and were still booted out.

Did you think the same as this when he put five past Chelsea and beat Arsenal? The penultimate sentence of your post just beggars belief!

 

[jolsnogross]

It was one of those games in which the match could still be being played now and we still wouldn't have scored. We're so clueless in the final 3rd when a team is just sitting back. It was the same against Chelsea in the final, just clueless with the ball in an attacking and chance creation sense.

This is the main issue for me. We play some games and you know if there isn't a dramatic change in shape or personnel by the 60th minute, then we're not getting anything out of it. While our defending can be horrendous at times, it's bloody hard to keep the opposition down to zero or one goal if wave-after-wave of attack is coming at you and they don't have to worry in the slightest about being under pressure themselves. That's not only about midfield protection, it's about attacking coherence.

Plenty of managers have said they're happy for us to have the ball because they know we wont hurt them. Our permanent 4231 looks good when we're at the races, but looks horrendous when it's a 451 that isn't protecting the back line and isn't supporting Kane, who was left with a thankless task. I don't know how Potch didn't see it yesterday and try to get someone closer to Kane sooner (maybe dropping Kane into the #10 role). But as you said, we could've played for a month of Sundays and not scored.

 

[jolsnogross]

Did you think the same as this when he put five past Chelsea and beat Arsenal? The penultimate sentence of your post just beggars belief!

I really enjoyed the Everton and Chelsea wins this season, in particular. And I might have said 'hopefully we build a bit of momentum now' after such rousing wins. But I don't get too high when we win individual games or too low when we lose them. Skepticism isn't the same as wanting someone out, if that's what you're implying by your belief being beggared.

Jol and Redknapp won me over when they put the sorts of run together that simply didn't occur throughout my Spurs supporting youth. Potch might well do the same if he can manage it, most likely next season rather than this even though he has had a couple of 9-out-of-9 point runs.

Last season was average enough, but not as bad as some made out after Sherwood rescued it a bit. This season is going reasonably well, but we may end up about the same or a place lower. One of the differences between this and our 4th/5th recent heydays, is the ability to string 5 or 6 wins together. That's what makes a big difference in this league at the top and bottom. And Arsenal and Liverpool are reaping the rewards for it. I had marked this run out (post cup final) as the key period, but we fell badly short yesterday after two encouraging games prior to it. Our next 4 are against bottom half teams, so maybe we can get to the Saints game on a winning run.

 

[Sweetsman]

I really enjoyed the Everton and Chelsea wins this season, in particular. And I might have said 'hopefully we build a bit of momentum now' after such rousing wins. But I don't get too high when we win individual games or too low when we lose them. Skepticism isn't the same as wanting someone out, if that's what you're implying by your belief being beggared.

Jol and Redknapp won me over when they put the sorts of run together that simply didn't occur throughout my Spurs supporting youth. Potch might well do the same if he can manage it, most likely next season rather than this even though he has had a couple of 9-out-of-9 point runs.

Last season was average enough, but not as bad as some made out after Sherwood rescued it a bit. This season is going reasonably well, but we may end up about the same or a place lower. One of the differences between this and our 4th/5th recent heydays, is the ability to string 5 or 6 wins together. That's what makes a big difference in this league at the top and bottom. And Arsenal and Liverpool are reaping the rewards for it. I had marked this run out (post cup final) as the key period, but we fell badly short yesterday after two encouraging games prior to it. Our next 4 are against bottom half teams, so maybe we can get to the Saints game on a winning run.

Crumbs! You thought Sherwood rescued it? We weren't exactly relegation fodder when he came in.
Liverpool and Arsenal have had a lot of time to bed in their squads, whereas Poch has had to sort out a mess as well as take us further. Those wins weren't idiosyncratic performances, but yesterday's first half can be expected when we have as young a team as we have. Bentaleb's pass to Rooney summed up te complete mental shutdown that occurred.

 

[whitesocks]

.. .Eg A Spurs player receives the ball in midfield facing his own goal . He doesn't know he's in space and may do a typical Spurs move by passing the ball straight back . If someone shouts the universal signal 'TURN'...he knows he has space and can move onto the attack.
We learned this at fucking school for christ's sake .

It seems obvious - but maybe in the professional game, it could be the opponent shouting 'turn', or 'leave'.
if a player is not aware himself if he has plenty of time, then he should play it safe every time.

PS Has anyone got a gif of eriksen leaving his marker for dead.
It was in the second half, in his own half - some sort of dummy, and it brought a gasp from the commentary team but I could not see what he's done.
A potential genuine moment of quality.

 

[mattdefoe]

shocking shocking performance. How can players actually play that bad considering we are a top 8 premier league team and the money that has been invested in that squad down the years. It was a stressful game to watch

 

[shelfboy68]

Crumbs! You thought Sherwood rescued it? We weren't exactly relegation fodder when he came in.
Liverpool and Arsenal have had a lot of time to bed in their squads, whereas Poch has had to sort out a mess as well as take us further. Those wins weren't idiosyncratic performances, but yesterday's first half can be expected when we have as young a team as we have. Bentaleb's pass to Rooney summed up te complete mental shutdown that occurred.

I know this is a debate between yourself and another poster but i would like to add that Yes young players do make mistakes but the surrender was diabolical.
Southampton have a young team too but i cant recall them surrendering games quite as easy as us, that said the best time to judge will be next year.

 

[ebzrascal]

How come Soldado wasn't on the bench today? What is the issue with Fazio?
BTW, Keown has been very complimentary about us recently.

Soldado does not deserve to be on the bench... Fazio should have played to combat Fellani

Our players need to stop thinking they are Pele... and stop playing balls without looking Mason, Walker and Bentaleb are guilty of this nearly every game...

In some games lets respect the opposition and play a more solid game. We always look like we will conceed goals, against any team from any level of football its unacceptable from a team with ambitions of top four. Poch insistance on philosophy when he does not have the right players is annoying.

Lloris needs to improve also I get it he keeps us in a lot of games but De Gea is better than him and seems to make zero mistakes... When De Gea conceends it`s basically unsaveable... For me he has to do better on the first goal and possibly the third also..

 

[Sir Henry]

Too many players froze.

The most important thing is, we learn.

They need to get people to learn react to situation on the pitch, Walker was left to hang, very poor from Townsend.

I've been supporting Spurs for the best part of 35 years now. I've never seen Spurs learn, what I do see is humiliation after humiliation in certain games. I don't expect us to learn shit from that game yesterday, we never do. It will take a few weeks or so, but the next battering will be along soon enough.

 

[glacierSpurs]

somehow this loss just made the loss an anfield much harder to stomach.. at that game, liverfool and us were shit, but we managed to get some goals and momentum was only swayed when we became much lazier and misplaced more passes than liverfools.. they were not great then but that win kinda kicked start their points haul..

man u were not fantastic last night IMO, but I am afraid they will just continue to scrape through matches till the end of season and finished 3rd or higher, laughably..

when opponents were shit and we fans were so disgusted with our losses, it just went to show how worse we were on those off days.. I mean, when so many 50-50 balls were lost to man u last night, surely Poch gotta see we were very probably out-witted by their set-up and numbers.. soon teams will start to play like man u last night, having someone strong like Fellaini and outmuscled our midfield and we will be tipping over..

stubborn Poch, yes.. he just kept playing his way and actually our players were rather good that while we were tactically mismatched, we kept the second half 0-0.. maybe some will say man u shut their engines thereafter, but i just felt we made them looked too good in the first half.. Poch needs to become flexible.. his substitutions of players did not change the shape much, to the extent I was only feeling he was hoping the player coming in could produce some individual brilliance to save games..

 

[DaSpurs]

The issue is not about who defends, plays in midfield or in attack. It's about adopting a system to play different teams. Poch plays 4-2-3-1 no matter who we play, and he even plays this system at home where teams in general just sit deep. Yesterday was a prime example where he expected to stroll into Old Trafford and play as if it were against Burnley at Turf Moor.

For anyone to suggest that we don't have a problem (and we have done since game one of the season) with our back four is in denial of the facts.

Oh I agree, I've just about had enough of Poch's rigid adherence to one system in the same formation. And I agree the back line could use some help, but I don't think it's our primary problem. I think the problem is Poch is trying to do a full system press high up the pitch with players who simply are not quick enough to consistently affect the opposition's buildup, with central midfielders in behind who aren't quite enough defensively. Poch has just got it all wrong with sticking with his system with our squad, and the defense is not entirely to blame.

 

[SteveH]

one poor result and a large proportion of our "fans" revert to type! so painful and Spursie!