Match Ratings vs Chelsea

[Legend10]

I couldn't disagree with this more. That goal was awful to give away, they didn't carve us open, we had players stand around and allow them to run through us. Firstly, Livermore losses Mata, next Gallas and Walker pay no attention at all to his obvious run, and to compound all this Friedel completely faisl to see it to and then runs out far too late.

And Vertonghen?

The truth is mata makes a great run off the back of Livermore, but what really makes the goal is how early hazard plays the pass and the sheer quality of the pass!

We can blame Livermore, Gallas, Caulker, Walker, Vertonghen and Friedel, all probably done something wrong but you have to respect the quality of Hazard's play in that goal, he simply opened us up like a tin of sardines!

 

[Gilzeanking]

I'm a play Lloris man . But about the first goal . There are handball players round this way and one of them did disagree with my faulting Brad for the first . He said that in handball one well known area to shoot for goals is just above the goalie's head . I can sort of see his point . Takes a while to get hands held low up there .

I've already greened the man that put the above gif up . Great for discussion , well done whoever he was .

 

[$hoguN]

And Vertonghen?

The truth is mata makes a great run off the back of Livermore, but what really makes the goal is how early hazard plays the pass and the sheer quality of the pass!

We can blame Livermore, Gallas, Caulker, Walker, Vertonghen and Friedel, all probably done something wrong but you have to respect the quality of Hazard's play in that goal, he simply opened us up like a tin of sardines!

If Livermore trackers his runner it is not a goal, if Walker reacts quickly he can go with Mata and prevent the goal or if Gallas is aware of the danger he can cut out the ball, if Friedel comes off his line as soon as he sees the ball he gets there first imo. I don't know what you are getting at with Vertonghen? I am perfectly happy with him not following Hazard and getting himself out of position.

It is one of those goals that coaches go mental about as there was so many points at which it could have been prevented.

 

[Legend10]

If Livermore trackers his runner it is not a goal, if Walker or Gallas are aware of the danger they cut out the ball, if Friedel comes off his line as soon as he sees the ball he gets there first imo.

It is one of those goals that coaches go mental about as there was so many points at which it could have been prevented.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think gallas initial position is right, he should be 2 or 3 yards to his right but that's a bit nitpicking against a top quality goal!

As for Livermore not going with Mata players do pass players between their respective lines, you will see players doing what Livermore done on a regular basis, passing the runner onto the back 4. Livermore is getting a lot of stick for it but nobody, and I repeat nobody is giving Verts stick for doing exactly the same in reverse with Hazard!

I wonder why, well I don't really because we all already know why!

I think Gallas's initial position is spot on. Our CB's shouldn't be any wider apart with the ball in the middle of the pitch and Gallas was effectively covering Torres, Walker does not read how the play is developing and is slow to close the gap his side or cover the far more dangerous run of Mata (over the player on his side).

There is absolutely no questioning the quality of that pass from Hazard, one of the best I've seen this season. But the start point is Livermore. Even as that move unfolded in real time I was thinking to myself "FFS Livermore don't just let him wander into that space". There were two players immediately inside Livermore to deal with the next phase. Looking at it again and again, you can say maybe Vertonghen should come and press Hazard, but Hazard plays that pass first time - Vertonghen coming out would have made very little difference - even though it may have been the right thing to do.

The midfield is where most of our problems stemmed in that game. Huddlestone's immobility was causing problems from the get go. Chelsea had so much ball first half (60%) it was unreal, it was like some of those chocolate teapot games last year where Parker would get dragged all over the place, this time it was Sandro who found himself having to cover for the lack of decent pressing of Hudd, Lennon, Defoe and Sigurdsson and because of Hudd's reluctance to move to receive the ball or get forward, was also at times having to go forward and join in attacks. Sandro looked completely uneasy with having to be both busy **** and box to boxer.

This was a game where we needed to be exceptionally dynamic, organised and coherent in our application in midfield to counter Chelsea's clever movement - and I repeat, I think they have the most creative bunch of attacking players in the EPL this season, this was always going to be a tough game - it was just unfortunate that circumstances threw Hudd into the game, which had the reverse effect. Huddelstone has never been conducive to a dynamic pressing application. Equally disappointing was how little Huddelstone offered us in possession. We constantly had no-one showing for a pass or taking the ball off people/defenders because Hudd was far too often standing static and out of reach. Both Ramires and Mikel (Mikel seeing nearly twice as much ball) saw more of the ball than Huddelstone, our supposed "playmaker".

I think AVB made some poor choices. Adebayor would have given us a focal point and much, much better ball retention. Up until this week I think he'd handled the Friedel/Lloris thing perfectly. Lloris had been phased in and was now the first choice. Fuck rotating - let Friedel have the cup games. I think Friedel should have done better on all three goals. I am convinced Lloris would have done better.

 

[Damian99]

I don't think gallas initial position is right, he should be 2 or 3 yards to his right but that's a bit nitpicking against a top quality goal!

As for Livermore not going with Mata players do pass players between their respective lines, you will see players doing what Livermore done on a regular basis, passing the runner onto the back 4. Livermore is getting a lot of stick for it but nobody, and I repeat nobody is giving Verts stick for doing exactly the same in reverse with Hazard!

I wonder why, well I don't really because we all already know why!

I must stress i only agree with you first sentence, after that, Livermore shouldn't be passing anyone onto anybody without looking whats around him first. Thats fucking lazy lazy play in my book and thats one of the reasons we find ourselves conceding such sloppy goals, people not wanting to take, or accept responsibility.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I must stress i only agree with you first sentence, after that, Livermore shouldn't be passing anyone onto anybody without looking whats around him first. Thats fucking lazy lazy play in my book and thats one of the reasons we find ourselves conceding such sloppy goals, people not wanting to take, or accept responsibility.

I'll ask you again - where should Gallas be in that passage on play ? He clearly has responsibility for Torres - Caulker is moving away from Torres and gestures him to Gllas, leaving Gallas to mark him - and if you watch that clip, that ball by Hazard could actually have been a ball to Torres. So if Gallas should be closer to Mata then Torres is completely free down the centre of goal.

 

[Legend10]

I think Gallas's initial position is spot on. Our CB's shouldn't be any wider apart with the ball in the middle of the pitch and Gallas was effectively covering Torres, Walker does not read how the play is developing and is slow to close the gap his side or cover the far more dangerous run of Mata (over the player on his side).

There is absolutely no questioning the quality of that pass from Hazard, one of the best I've seen this season. But the start point is Livermore. Even as that move unfolded in real time I was thinking to myself "FFS Livermore don't just let him wander into that space". There were two players immediately inside Livermore to deal with the next phase. Looking at it again and again, you can say maybe Vertonghen should come and press Hazard, but Hazard plays that pass first time - Vertonghen coming out would have made very little difference - even though it may have been the right thing to do.

The midfield is where most of our problems stemmed in that game. Huddlestone's immobility was causing problems from the get go. Chelsea had so much ball first half (60%) it was unreal, it was like some of those chocolate teapot games last year where Parker would get dragged all over the place, this time it was Sandro who found himself having to cover for the lack of decent pressing of Hudd, Lennon, Defoe and Sigurdsson and because of Hudd's reluctance to move to receive the ball or get forward, was also at times having to go forward and join in attacks. Sandro looked completely uneasy with having to be both busy **** and box to boxer.

This was a game where we needed to be exceptionally dynamic, organised and coherent in our application in midfield to counter Chelsea's clever movement - and I repeat, I think they have the most creative bunch of attacking players in the EPL this season, this was always going to be a tough game - it was just unfortunate that circumstances threw Hudd into the game, which had the reverse effect. Huddelstone has never been conducive to a dynamic pressing application. Equally disappointing was how little Huddelstone offered us in possession. We constantly had no-one showing for a pass or taking the ball off people/defenders because Hudd was far too often standing static and out of reach. Both Ramires and Mikel (Mikel seeing nearly twice as much ball) saw more of the ball than Huddelstone, our supposed "playmaker".

I think AVB made some poor choices. Adebayor would have given us a focal point and much, much better ball retention. Up until this week I think he'd handled the Friedel/Lloris thing perfectly. Lloris had been phased in and was now the first choice. Fuck rotating - let Friedel have the cup games. I think Friedel should have done better on all three goals. I am convinced Lloris would have done better.

When the ball is level with our 18 yard width line 30-35 yards out our first CB in contact with the play shouldn't be in contact with the width of the D, he has to be over too his right by probably 3 or 4 yards and Caulker should then be moving to his right as well. Space as is so often said can't score goals bit in this instance the space is clearly the danger. Walker doesn't cover himself in glory, his initial position is ok'ish as he has Cole and the ball is quite close to them but he could and should have reacted to Mata's run because at that point Cole is no longer a danger to us. That said if he thinks for a second instead of acting instantly which is what he did he isn't going to get there and probably wouldn't of any way.

What you say about Vertonghen can also be said about Livermore, once Mata makes the run off of the back of him by the time he turns and gets moving and seeing the angle the ball is played he probably wouldn't have stopped Mata getting in anyway, could have pressured him maybe, not sure.

Look this goal can be disected in a million ways, why is Sandro so far away from Mikel and why does Mikel have so much time? Why is lennon where he is, because if he's over to the right then Walker fills that horrible big space? But I can't remember what happened just before.

In an ideal world Lennon is where Walker is, Walkers natural position is then shutting the space, Livermore can then let Mata run, Sandro wouldn't be confused as too why Lennon is next to him and would do his job better! And Vertonghen might then come with hazard.

The only thing that I find a bit horrible on this goal is Friedel, his starting position is definitely wrong and when the pass is made ho shoud be flying out at Mata.

All that said for me this is really a hands up goal where you have to tip your hat to Hazard and Mata for great play!

And for me BC I think you need to get over this pressing, it's all you talk about it like it's a footballing revolution to do it! Good teams want you to do it, fuck me if our midfield players go headlessly pressing with Mata, Oscar and hazrd waiting in the space vacated behind to do it we would be fucked!

 

[$hoguN]

I think Gallas's initial position is spot on. Our CB's shouldn't be any wider apart with the ball in the middle of the pitch and Gallas was effectively covering Torres, Walker does not read how the play is developing and is slow to close the gap his side or cover the far more dangerous run of Mata (over the player on his side).

There is absolutely no questioning the quality of that pass from Hazard, one of the best I've seen this season. But the start point is Livermore. Even as that move unfolded in real time I was thinking to myself "FFS Livermore don't just let him wander into that space". There were two players immediately inside Livermore to deal with the next phase. Looking at it again and again, you can say maybe Vertonghen should come and press Hazard, but Hazard plays that pass first time - Vertonghen coming out would have made very little difference - even though it may have been the right thing to do.

The midfield is where most of our problems stemmed in that game. Huddlestone's immobility was causing problems from the get go. Chelsea had so much ball first half (60%) it was unreal, it was like some of those chocolate teapot games last year where Parker would get dragged all over the place, this time it was Sandro who found himself having to cover for the lack of decent pressing of Hudd, Lennon, Defoe and Sigurdsson and because of Hudd's reluctance to move to receive the ball or get forward, was also at times having to go forward and join in attacks. Sandro looked completely uneasy with having to be both busy **** and box to boxer.

This was a game where we needed to be exceptionally dynamic, organised and coherent in our application in midfield to counter Chelsea's clever movement - and I repeat, I think they have the most creative bunch of attacking players in the EPL this season, this was always going to be a tough game - it was just unfortunate that circumstances threw Hudd into the game, which had the reverse effect. Huddelstone has never been conducive to a dynamic pressing application. Equally disappointing was how little Huddelstone offered us in possession. We constantly had no-one showing for a pass or taking the ball off people/defenders because Hudd was far too often standing static and out of reach. Both Ramires and Mikel (Mikel seeing nearly twice as much ball) saw more of the ball than Huddelstone, our supposed "playmaker".

I think AVB made some poor choices. Adebayor would have given us a focal point and much, much better ball retention. Up until this week I think he'd handled the Friedel/Lloris thing perfectly. Lloris had been phased in and was now the first choice. Fuck rotating - let Friedel have the cup games. I think Friedel should have done better on all three goals. I am convinced Lloris would have done better.

No I disagree, Gallas should have been at least 2 yards closer to Walker and Walker about two yards further in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

​

I've now watched this about thirty times. I'm even wondering if Hazard's pass wasn't actually intended for Torres. If it was intended for Mata it was unbelievable good. Right pace and pin point to the only place where it could beat Gallas, the offside and find Mata's stride.

But look at what Caulker does. He clearly takes two or three small steps away from Torres, this puts Gallas in an impossible position. Torres would be completely unmarked in the middle if Gallas had moved any further toward Mata.

I think it was a clusterfuck. Sandro even tells Livermore (or points) to track Mata. And I don't think Gallas had a great game, but I think all three goals he's more unlucky than incompetent. Unless someone can actually show me different.

Maybe the first one, if he gets a shout from Walker then he should leave it. But we don't even know he did.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I find the large space Hazard is in to make the killing pass to be part of this . Yes he played an instant brilliant pass ,but if he felt like it he could have taken more time and created other kinds of mayhem . Noone was near him in a very dangerous position .

 

[Legend10]

I've now watched this about thirty times. I'm even wondering if Hazard's pass wasn't actually intended for Torres. If it was intended for Mata it was unbelievable good. Right pace and pin point to the only place where it could beat Gallas, the offside and find Mata's stride.

But look at what Caulker does. He clearly takes two or three small steps away from Torres, this puts Gallas in an impossible position. Torres would be completely unmarked in the middle if Gallas had moved any further toward Mata.

I think it was a clusterfuck. Sandro even tells Livermore (or points) to track Mata. And I don't think Gallas had a great game, but I think all three goals he's more unlucky than incompetent. Unless someone can actually show me different.

Maybe the first one, if he gets a shout from Walker then he should leave it. But we don't even know he did.

The first 2 aren't unlucky, they break the most basic rule of clearances!

The first he had so much time from a floated corner, to help it on or anything other than head it back into the area between the posts, that's dreadful defending!

The second the same, he even adjusts his body to clear there when he could have just cleared it back out from where it's come!

Unless it's desperate which neither were then do not clear the ball between the width of your own goalposts or you stand a good chance of being punished, and both he and Spurs were punished!

I like Gallas but fuck me they were terrible errors!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No I disagree, Gallas should have been at least 2 yards closer to Walker and Walker about two yards further in.

See my post above. Move Gallas two yards closest to Walker and Torres is an even easier through ball than the Mata one was. I think if Gallas is two yards closer to Walker the ball inside him to Mata would have been even easier too. The only thing that would have prevented that through ball was if Gallas was a yard further away from Walker (towards Torres, where the ball was played).

 

[al_pacino]

I've now watched this about thirty times. I'm even wondering if Hazard's pass wasn't actually intended for Torres. If it was intended for Mata it was unbelievable good. Right pace and pin point to the only place where it could beat Gallas, the offside and find Mata's stride.

But look at what Caulker does. He clearly takes two or three small steps away from Torres, this puts Gallas in an impossible position. Torres would be completely unmarked in the middle if Gallas had moved any further toward Mata.

I think it was a clusterfuck. Sandro even tells Livermore (or points) to track Mata. And I don't think Gallas had a great game, but I think all three goals he's more unlucky than incompetent. Unless someone can actually show me different.

Maybe the first one, if he gets a shout from Walker then he should leave it. But we don't even know he did.

i'm sure andy gray speaking on talksport wasn't convinced that ball was deliberate and I'd partially go along with that as there was almost no gap for that pass to go. As fro apportioning blame for that goal you sometimes just have to say well done, you can find an error that leads to every goal but sometimes its just good play.

For the first goal whether Gallas gets a shout or not he shouldn't be trying to head it where he did, it was never going to get to where he wanted.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The first 2 aren't unlucky, they break the most basic rule of clearances!

The first he had so much time from a floated corner, to help it on or anything other than head it back into the area between the posts, that's dreadful defending!

The second the same, he even adjusts his body to clear there when he could have just cleared it back out from where it's come!

Unless it's desperate which neither were then do not clear the ball between the width of your own goalposts or you stand a good chance of being punished, and both he and Spurs were punished!

I like Gallas but fuck me they were terrible errors!

I'm sorry, but that's just bollocks. They were poor clearances made in earnest in the same way anyone else would have done.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

i'm sure andy gray speaking on talksport wasn't convinced that ball was deliberate and I'd partially go along with that as there was almost no gap for that pass to go. As fro apportioning blame for that goal you sometimes just have to say well done, you can find an error that leads to every goal but sometimes its just good play.

For the first goal whether Gallas gets a shout or not he shouldn't be trying to head it where he did, it was never going to get to where he wanted.

So if there was a striker behind him he should just let it go because he can't get a true connection. Sorry mate, that's nonsense, he did what 100% of CB's would do in those circumstances, just tried to get it away as best he could. If he ignores a shout then he's to blame, otherwise he's doing the best he can.

 

[$hoguN]

See my post above. Move Gallas two yards closest to Walker and Torres is an even easier through ball than the Mata one was. I think if Gallas is two yards closer to Walker the ball inside him to Mata would have been even easier too. The only thing that would have prevented that through ball was if Gallas was a yard further away from Walker (towards Torres, where the ball was played).

You may well be right, but I can't help but think Caulker should be a step further across watching Torres, Gallas should a little further across and Walker should be moving further in so he is closer to Gallas. I think if that happens the ball still misses Torres, Gallas has a better chance to cut out the pass and Walker can actually track Mata.

I still think Livermore has to stay with Mata though and that Friedel has to spot the danger faster and get off his line.

 

[Legend10]

I'm sorry, but that's just bollocks. They were poor clearances made in earnest in the same way anyone else would have done.

Thats crap, and obviously from somebody who has clearly never played at any half decent level or they would know this, as it's so so basic!

How is a corner floated 30 feet up in the air, way beyond the back post, under no pressure at all a header made in earnest!?

Dear God!

And seriously BC you fancy yourself as having an amazing football brain, that's terrible from you!

 

[al_pacino]

So if there was a striker behind him he should just let it go because he can't get a true connection. Sorry mate, that's nonsense, he did what 100% of CB's would do in those circumstances, just tried to get it away as best he could. If he ignores a shout then he's to blame, otherwise he's doing the best he can.

Not he shouldn't have just let it drop but at the same time he shouldn't have bobbed the ball right in front of the goal. He could've glanced the ball anywhere from out for another corner to somewhere near the corner of the area, I think at least 50% of decent CBs take this option.

 

[Legend10]

Not he shouldn't have just let it drop but at the same time he shouldn't have bobbed the ball right in front of the goal. He could've glanced the ball anywhere from out for another corner to somewhere near the corner of the area, I think at least 50% of decent CBs take this option.

Of course,

He should just help it on its way, very very basic stuff!