Mauricio Pochettino: Spurs want Premier League, not domestic cups

[PeeEyeEmPee]

So which one would you like to put most of our eggs into?

the Premier League and Champions League. obviously. so now tell me why it's not possible to do that and still make a real effort to win one of the other cups

It suggests that merely winning an FA Cup or League Cup has less importance for your overall progress than winning the league or CL...why are people hanging onto the Wigan statement when he clarifies his words when he says "OK, I would love to win the Carabao Cup or the FA Cup for our fans"?

why has he mentioned Wigan as his main example if we're supposed to just disregard it? I'm guessing he brought it up as an example of the supposed pitfalls of challenging for a minor trophy, and yet it bears no similarity whatsoever to the one we're currently in. the clubs around us are far more relevant examples, and those of us "hanging onto the Wigan statement" would rather it was those examples we paid more attention to.

@Trix knows far more about the club's runnings than me and I can see his point.

What players would sign for a.club that doesn't compete in the wages bracket, without champs league? Etc etc. The new stadium to pay for. Might not break the club but it would certainly delay things by years without the finance it offers.

Back on topic, i still don't know why people are all precious about what he says in the press. Bit over sensitive, especially when he's talking sense

there are 6 CL-level clubs in the PL fighting for 4 places. logic suggests we'll miss out at least every now and again, whether we try to win cups or not. it's not a disaster.

this is all irrelevant, however, as I don't see a great deal of evidence to suggest we can't do both

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

the Premier League and Champions League. obviously. so now tell me why it's not possible to do that and still make a real effort to win one of the other cups



why has he mentioned Wigan as his main example if we're supposed to just disregard it? I'm guessing he brought it up as an example of the supposed pitfalls of challenging for a minor trophy, and yet it bears no similarity whatsoever to the one we're currently in. the clubs around us are far more relevant examples, and those of us "hanging onto the Wigan statement" would rather it was those examples we paid more attention to.


there are 6 CL-level clubs in the PL fighting for 4 places. logic suggests we'll miss out at least every now and again, whether we try to win cups or not. it's not a disaster.

this is all irrelevant, however, as I don't see a great deal of evidence to suggest we can't do both

When did pochettino say he didn't want to win the cups or try to win.them?

 

[riggi]

Yes he can. Fairly sure his remit this year would have been to qualify from the CL group and to take a CL team into the new stadium.

I mean in the next few seasons.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

It's simple really.....we don't pay OTT extortionate wages in order to offset no CL. We might get by one season in the EL as far as retaining our better players was concerned but remember the bulk of them will be on bonuses based on achieving and playing in the CL. Without it we will have far more vultures circling than we have ever had in the past.

I bow to your superior knowledge of the inner workings of the club, but is it not true that this will be the case regardless? playing in the CL is all well and good, but even if we were to win it or the league, certain other clubs will always be a bigger draw than we are, at least for the foreseeable future. Arsenal's best players were having their heads turned even while they were winning Doubles and reaching the CL final, for example.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

When did pochettino say he didn't want to win the cups or try to win.them?

and when have I said he has said that?

 

[Shadydan]

why has he mentioned Wigan as his main example if we're supposed to just disregard it? I'm guessing he brought it up as an example of the supposed pitfalls of challenging for a minor trophy, and yet it bears no similarity whatsoever to the one we're currently in. the clubs around us are far more relevant examples, and those of us "hanging onto the Wigan statement" would rather it was those examples we paid more attention to.

You're focusing too much on his Wigan example without taking the rest of the statement into context, if he said that quote in isolation I'd generally agree but if you read the rest of his statement it's obvious what he's trying to say.

In my mind he could have said the same thing about Arsenal, they've consistently won the FA Cup recently but what's it doing for their overall progression as a club? He's making a point about progress, aims and mentality - he doesn't want to merely aim for a domestic trophy, he wants Spurs to aim for the big prizes and he wants everyone inclung fans and players to believe that we're good enough to win the big prizes.

 

[Trix]

the Premier League and Champions League. obviously. so now tell me why it's not possible to do that and still make a real effort to win one of the other cups



why has he mentioned Wigan as his main example if we're supposed to just disregard it? I'm guessing he brought it up as an example of the supposed pitfalls of challenging for a minor trophy, and yet it bears no similarity whatsoever to the one we're currently in. the clubs around us are far more relevant examples, and those of us "hanging onto the Wigan statement" would rather it was those examples we paid more attention to.


there are 6 CL-level clubs in the PL fighting for 4 places. logic suggests we'll miss out at least every now and again, whether we try to win cups or not. it's not a disaster.

this is all irrelevant, however, as I don't see a great deal of evidence to suggest we can't do both

Even Mouinho with Yaniteds resources and squad depth had to prioritise the cups over the league last season. No one is saying it can't be done, not even MP. All he is saying is it is very difficult, and focusing on it distracts from the bigger picture(Wigan).

 

[tiger666]

the Premier League and Champions League. obviously. so now tell me why it's not possible to do that and still make a real effort to win one of the other cups

Where did Poch say we won't be doing that? All he said is we won't make a cup a priority and disregard the league. People getting their pants in a twist over it is quite frankly, pathetic.

 

[Maxtremist]

Where did Poch say we won't be doing that? All he said is we won't make a cup a priority and disregard the league. People getting their pants in a twist over it is quite frankly, pathetic.

Agreed. I know people can twist words and make mountains out of molehills and all that but normally I can empathise to some regard and see where there coming from. In this I really don't. Poch just basically said our main focus is the PL followed by the CL. That's it. And I think you can ask pretty much anyone on here and they'd agree if you could offer them anything... that's what they'd have said we should focus on.

That's not to say we aren't going to try for the League or FA Cup, just that they're not the main goal of the season. I honestly don't see how that's an issue with anyone?

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

and when have I said he has said that?

I'm.not really sure what there is to discuss? You implied it above somewhere. All he wants to do is concentrate primarily on the main competitions. If it means domestic cups suffer, so be it. He didn't say he wouldn't try. Not sure what you're discussing against?

Edit. Pochettino probably agrees with you if you read his comments. (Barring the Wigan example, which was purely context)

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

So much bed wetting over something so minor

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

You're focusing too much on his Wigan example without taking the rest of the statement into context, if he said that quote in isolation I'd generally agree but if you read the rest of his statement it's obvious what he's trying to say.

In my mind he could have said the same thing about Arsenal, they've consistently won the FA Cup recently but what's it doing for their overall progression as a club? He's making a point about progress, aims and mentality - he doesn't want to merely aim for a domestic trophy, he wants Spurs to aim for the big prizes and he wants everyone inclung fans and players to believe that we're good enough to win the big prizes.

no manager, except 'Arry maybe, is going to come out and say he doesn't want to win or participate in the minor competitions, so him saying he'd love to win it for the fans is neither here nor there IMO. for me, the Wigan comments are far more instructive of his attitude and what will ultimately be his approach to the competition.

I guess how each individual responds to this will be governed by their interpretation of this example and/or their general attitude towards the minor cups. he hasn't brought Wigan up just for the sake of it though, and my own interpretation is that he's done so in order to manage expectations and create the impression that it's not realistic to try and compete on all fronts. his cup record both in general and since he's been here backs up that interpretation. meanwhile I'm of the opinion that we can prioritise the CL/PL (that we have a significantly lesser chance of winning) and still make a proper effort to win the League Cup or FA Cup.

Arsenal would've been a terrible example for him to use, as even in the midst of their worst and our best run in at least 20 years, last year was the only time we've managed to out-perform them. you'll notice I omitted them from the list of big clubs I used as counter-examples to Pochettino's. their current stagnancy has less, MUCH less, to do with them winning the FA Cup recently than it does with them prioritising Top 4, CL qualification and the resulting financial rewards as the limit of their ambition rather than actually competing for major honours.

Even Mouinho with Yaniteds resources and squad depth had to prioritise the cups over the league last season. No one is saying it can't be done, not even MP. All he is saying is it is very difficult, and focusing on it distracts from the bigger picture(Wigan).

Mourinho always tries to win something, regardless. even when his Chelsea teams were crapping all over the rest of the league, he still made a point of winning the league cup.

as above though, I guess we differ on interpretation of what Pochettino's comments here, as I don't believe that's quite what he's saying.

 

[DJS]

I want ALL the cups mother fuckers.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I'm.not really sure what there is to discuss? You implied it above somewhere. All he wants to do is concentrate primarily on the main competitions. If it means domestic cups suffer, so be it. He didn't say he wouldn't try. Not sure what you're discussing against?

Edit. Pochettino probably agrees with you if you read his comments. (Barring the Wigan example, which was purely context)

and I think he has implied it in his comments.

 

[Shadydan]

no manager, except 'Arry maybe, is going to come out and say he doesn't want to win or participate in the minor competitions, so him saying he'd love to win it for the fans is neither here nor there IMO. for me, the Wigan comments are far more instructive of his attitude and what will ultimately be his approach to the competition.

I guess how each individual responds to this will be governed by their interpretation of this example and/or their general attitude towards the minor cups. he hasn't brought Wigan up just for the sake of it though, and my own interpretation is that he's done so in order to manage expectations and create the impression that it's not realistic to try and compete on all fronts. his cup record both in general and since he's been here backs up that interpretation. meanwhile I'm of the opinion that we can prioritise the CL/PL (that we have a significantly lesser chance of winning) and still make a proper effort to win the League Cup or FA Cup.

Arsenal would've been a terrible example for him to use, as even in the midst of their worst and our best run in at least 20 years, last year was the only time we've managed to out-perform them. you'll notice I omitted them from the list of big clubs I used as counter-examples to Pochettino's. their current stagnancy has less, MUCH less, to do with them winning the FA Cup recently than it does with them prioritising Top 4, CL qualification and the resulting financial rewards as the limit of their ambition rather than actually competing for major honours.



Mourinho always tries to win something, regardless. even when his Chelsea teams were crapping all over the rest of the league, he still made a point of winning the league cup.

as above though, I guess we differ on interpretation of what Pochettino's comments here, as I don't believe that's quite what he's saying.

If you think he has no intention of taking the cups seriously then your opinion kind of contradicts his attitude to the FA Cup last season, nothing was stopping him from fielding a weakened team going into the latter rounds of the comp but against Millwall and Fulham he went with a strong side even though we were in the midst of a title challenge which is obviously a priority. So whether you think that he has implied that he's ready to throw the cup competitions is rather irrelevant when there's evidence which suggests that he did the opposite.

I didn't say he should use Arsenal as an example, it's just my opinion that you can point towards the Arsenal example and still make the same point about aims of the club. People seem to think that winning the FA Cup will do wonders only need to look at Arsenal as a "successful" side who have won trophies recently.

 

[Bobbins]

Then the club PR department should prep him. And I think they do, but you can't legislate every time for everything, they could (and do) literally spin everything they can, you'd end up saying nothing at all. Ever.

EDIT: TBH I think we worry way too much about what he says and how it's taken.

DOUBLE EDIT: It's in danger of taking on a life of its own, much like the anti-Spurs bias we're told that we see in the media all the time. Which also isn't there.

Yeah I don't think his comments are any kind of actual issue, he just needs to learn how certain comments will be picked up on by certain sections of the gutter press. There are stock answers available for these kinds of things; "we want to win all competitions", "rotation and freshness is important" etc.

He's too honest and probably just needs to fall back on some cliches.

On the other note, I do think it's vitally important the club wins something, very soon. Hopefully someone has told Poch about the trophy-every-decade record...

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

If you think he has no intention of taking the cups seriously then your opinion kind of contradicts his attitude to the FA Cup last season, nothing was stopping him from fielding a weakened team going into the latter rounds of the comp but against Millwall and Fulham he went with a strong side even though we were in the midst of a title challenge which is obviously a priority. So whether you think that he has implied that he's ready to throw the cup competitions is rather irrelevant when there's evidence which suggests that he did the opposite.

I didn't say he should use Arsenal as an example, it's just my opinion that you can point towards the Arsenal example and still make the same point about aims of the club. People seem to think that winning the FA Cup will do wonders only need to look at Arsenal as a "successful" side who have won trophies recently.

that's a straw man, as I don't think anyone is saying that

we did play strong sides in the later stages of the FA Cup last season, but we were out of Europe at that point and we weren't realistically challenging for the title. rather we were hoping Chelsea would fumble enough for us to be able to get close enough to put a bit of pressure on them.

when all the cups were "live", we picked under-strength sides in the League Cup and CL

 

[Bulletspur]

no manager, except 'Arry maybe, is going to come out and say he doesn't want to win or participate in the minor competitions, so him saying he'd love to win it for the fans is neither here nor there IMO. for me, the Wigan comments are far more instructive of his attitude and what will ultimately be his approach to the competition.

I guess how each individual responds to this will be governed by their interpretation of this example and/or their general attitude towards the minor cups. he hasn't brought Wigan up just for the sake of it though, and my own interpretation is that he's done so in order to manage expectations and create the impression that it's not realistic to try and compete on all fronts. his cup record both in general and since he's been here backs up that interpretation. meanwhile I'm of the opinion that we can prioritise the CL/PL (that we have a significantly lesser chance of winning) and still make a proper effort to win the League Cup or FA Cup.

Arsenal would've been a terrible example for him to use, as even in the midst of their worst and our best run in at least 20 years, last year was the only time we've managed to out-perform them. you'll notice I omitted them from the list of big clubs I used as counter-examples to Pochettino's. their current stagnancy has less, MUCH less, to do with them winning the FA Cup recently than it does with them prioritising Top 4, CL qualification and the resulting financial rewards as the limit of their ambition rather than actually competing for major honours.



Mourinho always tries to win something, regardless. even when his Chelsea teams were crapping all over the rest of the league, he still made a point of winning the league cup.

as above though, I guess we differ on interpretation of what Pochettino's comments here, as I don't believe that's quite what he's saying.

You are like the Sun and other media sources who have either tried to interprete Poch's words to suit an agenda or else like them you haven't a clue.

Winning the cup like Wigan is all well and good, something we want as well and I know Poch will be doing his damnest to win, but unlike Wigan at that time, we also have other higher priorities which will dictate how we go about it. That is what in my opinion, the sentiment Poch was trying to express with his Wigan example

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

CL, and failing that, EL should be a priority this season.

 

[Shadydan]

that's a straw man, as I don't think anyone is saying that

we did play strong sides in the later stages of the FA Cup last season, but we were out of Europe at that point and we weren't realistically challenging for the title. rather we were hoping Chelsea would fumble enough for us to be able to get close enough to put a bit of pressure on them.

when all the cups were "live", we picked under-strength sides in the League Cup and CL

You have literally just described a title challenge.

Every man and his dog from fans to pundits have said that Spurs need to win a trophy in order to cement them in the history books or something along those lines which includes the FA Cup, I'm using Arsenal as an example to measure their progression and saying that we need to push on as a club and aim for more than what Arsenal have achieved. For me comparing us with Arsenal is a really good example, they are the perfect illustration of a club who have rested on their laurels and stagnated when seemingly their board are happy with them winning domestic cups which to them is seen as progression.

But this is the point isn't it, picking an under-strength side is prioritizing the competitions which is exactly what he's referring to in his statement, albeit last season he had to pick a team going into the final group game against Monaco and then a rival against Chelsea which due to injuries had to be prioritized. He then went and picked a full strength side against Gent in which is a lesser competition than the CL which shows you that circumstances and a huge dose of luck dictate what teams he picks.