MOTM/Ratings Vs ManU

[Main Man]

It resembled more of a pre-season game than the opening game of the Premier League to me!

I thought the lack of fight, desire and actual purpose to get something out of the game second half was incredibly alarming. Our lack of offensive options from the bench didn't help that mind.

Walker played well, and Toby quietly impressed.

They were so poor though, and we still got beat.

Bentaleb was shocking and his mistake cost us the game. I think peoples criticism of Walker for that goal is very, very harsh.

The officials were crap but our fans sounded absolutely brilliant.

I am getting more and more confidence in Worm too.

Not all doom and gloom - and it is only one game in to the new season - but all our attacking frailties from last season still look undeniably apparent.

 

[Riandor]

Shall not add to the rankings as most have done good jobs with those, just some tuppence...
Walker - totally agree, good game and unlucky with OG.
Bentaleb - poor game all round, highlights need for strength in depth at CM.
Dembele - great at holding on to ball... Holds on to ball toooo much. I'm sorry but he slows our forward play down too much and often pivots and chooses a backwards pass rather than risk a a forward one.

All in all I can see why Poch wanted Schneiderlin, he desperately wants and needs someone in the CM position who is going to move the ball forward with more deliberation. I think that's why Dembele was not starting in the CDM role, but still he played that way further forward too. It's frustrating, he is so good on the ball, it it's stuck to his foot for too long!

 

[Main Man]

With inverted wingers the full backs provide the width, Walker was pushing on to allow for a quick switch should the opportunity arise and would have been doing so under instructions I imagine. Had he made the tackle without the ball going in we'd have been talking about his amazing recovery. Unfortunate, nothing else.

Walker provided the width as expected. Bentaleb inexplicably then fucked up and in fairness to Walker he got his head down and beat Roony to a ball he gave him a 30 yard head start on.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

With inverted wingers the full backs provide the width, Walker was pushing on to allow for a quick switch should the opportunity arise and would have been doing so under instructions I imagine. Had he made the tackle without the ball going in we'd have been talking about his amazing recovery. Unfortunate, nothing else.

I don't think so. He may have instructions to push on but a coach can only hope his players use their own common sense at times. Walker was too far forward in that particular play IMO

 

[double0]

That ref. was a C**t he was so anti giving us awards yet any slight touch on a United player was given. It was not the first time I've been absoulately livid by that ref. he should be written off to the lower league.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

That ref. was a C**t he was so anti giving us awards yet any slight touch on a United player was given. It was not the first time I've been absoulately livid by that ref. he should be written off to the lower league.

Two words. Old Trafford.

 

[Surreyspur10]

People are saying Walker was unlucky with the Manure goal but what the hell was he doing upfield that caused him to race back anyway. We weren't attacking down the right.

He was trying to give us some width which we desperately needed

 

[Syn_13]

People are saying Walker was unlucky with the Manure goal but what the hell was he doing upfield that caused him to race back anyway. We weren't attacking down the right.

He was trying to give us some width which we desperately needed

Pretty much what Surreyspur10 has said. When you watch the highlights again you can see that we're moving forward with the ball and in a good position to start another attack. Walker has to stretch the play down that side, it was his job to be the wide man as Dembele was playing a more inside role. If Bentaleb had have not given the ball away we could've got an attack going down the left and Walker's job would be to stretch the defence and/or provide an option if we needed to switch it.

It's the danger you play nowadays with full backs that are practically wingers. Once you get caught out of possession they're the ones who will have to bust a gut to make it back, otherwise your centre halfs are isolated. Misplacing a pass like that in such a comfortable position right in the middle of the pitch is pretty much like handing a loaded gun to the opposition with the way that we play.

 

[mpickard2087]

In this system when you have the ball, the fullbacks are supposed to be on the same plain as the cm2 or even further advanced than that. Providing width high up the pitch. It's the individual who lost the ball and stranded everyone upfield who was to blame. I'd rather the fullbacks took risks and played as high up the pitch as possible when we are in possession.

 

[jonnyp]

Vorm 6
Walker 6
Alderweireld 7
Vertonghen 6
Davies 6
Dier 6
Bentaleb 4
Dembele 5
Eriksen 5
Chadli 4
Kane 5

Lamela 5
Mason 6
Alli NET

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Pretty much what Surreyspur10 has said. When you watch the highlights again you can see that we're moving forward with the ball and in a good position to start another attack. Walker has to stretch the play down that side, it was his job to be the wide man as Dembele was playing a more inside role. If Bentaleb had have not given the ball away we could've got an attack going down the left and Walker's job would be to stretch the defence and/or provide an option if we needed to switch it.

It's the danger you play nowadays with full backs that are practically wingers. Once you get caught out of possession they're the ones who will have to bust a gut to make it back, otherwise your centre halfs are isolated. Misplacing a pass like that in such a comfortable position right in the middle of the pitch is pretty much like handing a loaded gun to the opposition with the way that we play.

This is all true and is part of the reason why we have a squad full of individually good defenders who do not defend effectively as a unit. Another part of the reason is the high defensive line.

But when we played in a similar formation under AVB, the usual tactic was that, when the fullbacks advanced to provide width, the central defenders moved out wider than their usual positions and the defensive midfielder dropped back into the gap they left in the centre. Sandro was especially effective in this role.

At present, we do not have a dedicated DM and I saw no evidence last season that either of our 2 deeper-lying midfielders, whether they were Bentaleb, Mason, Paulinho, Dembélé, Stambouli or Capoue, was under instructions to join the central defence when the fullbacks attacked.

We conceded a hell of a lot of goals last season and our defenders got the brunt of the blame. I don't buy that. We presently have a squad packed with good defenders and the same was nearly as true last season. But those defenders were repeatedly exposed because of the combination of the high defensive line, fullbacks stationed high up the pitch and no midfielder with strict instructions to cover the resulting gap in defence.

The moment we lose the ball in midfield, usually because of a lax pass under no pressure, such as Bentaleb made yesterday, we have at least three of the five outfield players whose job it is to contain a counter-attack stranded out of position and, equally importantly, anticipating an imminent Spurs attack: mentally and physically, they are leaning toward the opposition goal.

As long as we continue with this approach, we will concede unfortunate goals.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

This is all true and is part of the reason why we have a squad full of individually good defenders who do not defend effectively as a unit. Another part of the reason is the high defensive line.

But when we played in a similar formation under AVB, the usual tactic was that, when the fullbacks advanced to provide width, the central defenders moved out wider than their usual positions and the defensive midfielder dropped back into the gap they left in the centre. Sandro was especially effective in this role.

At present, we do not have a dedicated DM and I saw no evidence last season that either of our 2 deeper-lying midfielders, whether they were Bentaleb, Mason, Paulinho, Dembélé, Stambouli or Capoue, was under instructions to join the central defence when the fullbacks attacked.

We conceded a hell of a lot of goals last season and our defenders got the brunt of the blame. I don't buy that. We presently have a squad packed with good defenders and the same was nearly as true last season. But those defenders were repeatedly exposed because of the combination of the high defensive line, fullbacks stationed high uip the pitch and no midfielder with strict instructions to cover the resulting gap in defence.

The moment we lose the ball in midfield, usually because of a lax pass under no pressure, such as Bentaleb made yesterday, we have at least three of the five outfield players whose job it is to contain a counter-attack stranded out of position and, equally importantly, anticipating an imminent Spurs attack: mentally and physically, they are leaning toward the opposition goal.

As long as we continue with this approach, we will concede unfortunate goals.

We conceded Saturday because a CM made a mistake in a game where both teams early on were pressing high up (although Bentaleb wasn't under much pressure, it was just a bad error) and they punished the mistake we made and we couldn't punish the turnovers we forced in similarly dangerous areas.

But in general the problem isn't the high defensive line and the CM's not dropping into that area when the CB's split and few goals came from direct CM errors like the one saturday. The bigger problems were two fold. Firstly the high line and FB's pushed right up then the continual carelessness and frittering away possession by the FB's, AM's and FW's catching everyone upfield and making us exceedingly vulnerable to counter attacks from deep. Exasperated by the laziness in chasing back of people and Pochettino's failure to get everyone to understand what they have to do when others advance or lose the ball etc.

Secondly it is playing a high line but having the AM's and FW's not pressuring the ball with verve, intelligence and as a cohesive unit. Kane, Eriksen, Lamela might press, Chadli or Townsend are stood there daydreaming, the opposition break therough that first line and now there are only 2 cm's to cover the width of the pitch and protect the defenders. Lately even Kane's stopped pressing properly and Eriksen's pressing is hit and miss.


My opinion, and I know this isn't shared by all, is that neither of our fb's are great or intelligent defenders, especially Walker. Neither read the game brilliantly. Walker had a decent game saturday though.

 

[spurs9]

I don't think so. He may have instructions to push on but a coach can only hope his players use their own common sense at times. Walker was too far forward in that particular play IMO

Absolute bollocks. He was behind the ball and only 6 yards ahead of our Cb that was furthest back. Davies was further ahead than him.

 

[seanyboy]

I think it was Bentaleb's fault, no reason to make that pass when he's got two out wide ride to hit an easy ball to. (Picture is right before Bentaleb makes the pass.)

Def not Walker's fault but if that happened on the other side and Rose were playing, I could see him pulling off one of those spectacular hook slides from around Rooney's back. Makes me appreciate Rose even more.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I think it was Bentaleb's fault, no reason to make that pass when he's got two out wide ride to hit an easy ball to. (Picture is right before Bentaleb makes the pass.)

Def not Walker's fault but if that happened on the other side and Rose were playing, I could see him pulling off one of those spectacular hook slides from around Rooney's back. Makes me appreciate Rose even more.

Not excusing Bentaleb - it was a poor pass.

But, I think Davies shares a bit of blame as well. From that picture - Davies is standing in a position to invite that bad pass - with an opponent in easy interception range. Davies should have been making a run down the sideline - allowing the pass to bypass the MFers, or he should have been dropping back to invite a back pass - that would have been out of range of interception. By standing still - he shares the blame imo

 

[Shadydan]

Scapegoating and over analysing again.

 

[sim0n]

I think it was Bentaleb's fault, no reason to make that pass when he's got two out wide ride to hit an easy ball to. (Picture is right before Bentaleb makes the pass.)

Def not Walker's fault but if that happened on the other side and Rose were playing, I could see him pulling off one of those spectacular hook slides from around Rooney's back. Makes me appreciate Rose even more.

BTW - looks like Davies played well and was fine, but I missed the detail on why Rose didn't start... I see a listed hip/thigh injury with no reported return date,.... anyone know if it's a bad injury or what happened? just curious

 

[HotspurFC1950]

We conceded Saturday because a CM made a mistake in a game where both teams early on were pressing high up (although Bentaleb wasn't under much pressure, it was just a bad error) and they punished the mistake we made and we couldn't punish the turnovers we forced in similarly dangerous areas.

But in general the problem isn't the high defensive line and the CM's not dropping into that area when the CB's split and few goals came from direct CM errors like the one saturday. The bigger problems were two fold. Firstly the high line and FB's pushed right up then the continual carelessness and frittering away possession by the FB's, AM's and FW's catching everyone upfield and making us exceedingly vulnerable to counter attacks from deep. Exasperated by the laziness in chasing back of people and Pochettino's failure to get everyone to understand what they have to do when others advance or lose the ball etc.

Secondly it is playing a high line but having the AM's and FW's not pressuring the ball with verve, intelligence and as a cohesive unit. Kane, Eriksen, Lamela might press, Chadli or Townsend are stood there daydreaming, the opposition break therough that first line and now there are only 2 cm's to cover the width of the pitch and protect the defenders. Lately even Kane's stopped pressing properly and Eriksen's pressing is hit and miss.


My opinion, and I know this isn't shared by all, is that neither of our fb's are not great or intelligent defenders, especially Walker. Neither read the game brilliantly. Walker had a decent game saturday though.

Good stuff.