MOTM/Ratings Vs ManU

[THFCSPURS19]

In fairness I've done a great job of establishing a reputation as some sort of Pochettino-hating, frustrated, bitter, and anti-Levy type!

I'm really not, everyone! I'm just an unbearable moaner.

And I'm not a 'super-fan' .

 

[thinktank]

In fairness I've done a great job of establishing a reputation as some sort of Pochettino-hating, frustrated, bitter, and anti-Levy type!

I'm really not, everyone! I'm just an unbearable moaner.

Glad to have been of assistance.

www.thinktankselfawarenesshelp.com

 

[Spurger King]

And I'm not a 'super-fan' .

You are a bit!

Maybe I've just not noticed. but you always seem to have some super-duper spin on everything! We fuck up quite a bit, and have s chairman operating with his hands tied.

 

[Spurger King]

Glad to have been of assistance.

www.thinktankselfawarenesshelp.com

You're clearly my Pochettino nemesis. He could burn down White Hart Lane, slap every season ticket holder in the face, and literally shit on the golden cock, and you'd put it down to translation issues

 

[THFCSPURS19]

You are a bit!

Maybe I've just not noticed. but you always seem to have some super-duper spin on everything! We fuck up quite a bit, and have s chairman operating with his hands tied.

Positive spin? Maybe. I try to be positive whenever I can, but trust me I still do complain (about Poch's team selection mainly) and if we don't sign a starting defensive midfielder, I'll be furious. Your thread, which I completely agreed with, suggests you think the same

 

[thinktank]

You're clearly my Pochettino nemesis. He could burn down White Hart Lane, slap every season ticket holder in the face, and literally shit on the golden cock, and you'd put it down to translation issues

Transition.

 

[spurs9]

Hang on lemmings, don't jump yet.

Pochettino is clearly a man of good intentions. I have continually had my doubts that his arse can cash the cheque those good intentions write. But this game was not the disaster that many in the match thread would have us believe. That was one of the best performances, overall, at OT that Ive seen from a spurs team in recent years. Certainly deserved better than a defeat and it was a hell of a lot better than the two wins we skanked there.

There were definitely some positives but also some of the old failings too. For the first twenty minutes we utterly dominated the game, and we did this largely by pushing up the pitch and pressing Utd in their half. We created three wonderful situations at least, and unfortunately wasted them. Then a careless pass by Bentaleb was pounced on and this is where you see what mega money buys, where we wasted our chances to punish errors we'd forced, they made the most, the right ball was played and if Walker hadn't furiously chased back and ended up unluckily putting in his own net, then Rooney would have buried the chance anyway.

Then followed the most disappointing phase of the game as we became shocked into insipidity. This is football, you won't always score first, you will take set backs, but what you can't afford to do is utterly fall to pieces the way we did for the next 20 minutes. It's not just a little aftershock tremble, it's like we've been collectively hit with the death of a loved one, we sleepwalk on some kind of dopey autopilot. We saw it too often last season, and it reared it's ugly head again today.

Luckily, unlike last year, even in sleep mode we were better than the same stage in last year's game and Utd were also not firing on full thrust either. We got through that phase and gradually grew back into the game and finished much the stronger team.

We had more of the ball than they did. We also had more promising situations in the final third than they did. We pretty much pressed as well as they did, and with the odd exception, worked as hard as they did.

Selection wise, I remain very disappointed that Dier was picked to play in CM. People will say he got a couple of decent tackles in, and he did, but he was ponderous at times too, caught in possession a couple of times and he also carelessly gave the ball away in just as bad a position as Bentaleb but was just fortunate his error didn't get punished, and in terms of galvanising our play, being progressive he was lethargic and limited, and it wasn't until he went off that we had two progressive midfielders on the pitch that we really gained momentum again. This is not me saying he was the worst player on the pitch, I just don't think his inclusion at cm was tactically clever or in hindsight a positive influence for good. Mason can tackle and Alli can tackle, but they can both move and pass too. I would much rather one of these partnered Bentaleb from the start.

Bentaleb's careless misplaced pass cost us very dearly, but much, much worse than that for me was that he visibly shrunk after the mistake. He started hiding from the ball a little and that is just not the kid we know. That is not the kid who saw more ball than any other midfield player last season. The kid who's character has got him this far aged 20. He was rightly subbed, but I'd much rather Pochettino would have just got hold of him at half time and said "I'd rather you made 10 mistakes than hide from the ball, now get out there and do what your good at" maybe he did, but it didn't work because the same insipid Bentaleb came out second half and he was rightly subbed.

LVG paid Pochettino a very big compliment after the game. And I think it was deserved. This was a pretty decent performance at a tough place against a team that has cost about 20 times ours to assemble.

Individuality

Vorm - Fuck all to do really. OK

Walker - Defensively was very good. Still disappointing in an attacking sense, wasting a very good chance and not really contributing anything else of substance and hoofed a couple to nowhere.

Alderweireld - A very decent first game under the circumstances. Read things well and reacted well.

Vertonghen - OK

Davies - OK defensively, but like Walker, didn't provide much of substance going forward.

Dier - I think a couple of crowd pleasing tackles aside he was pretty un-dynamic, a bit static and offered very little in terms of showing for the ball or moving the ball progressively. He also struggles to get close and press sometimes and tended to stand off at times and today, as in the friendlies we played, there were a couple of times when players just shimmied away from him.

Bentaleb - His carelessness was ruthlessly punished, and he does do this occasionally, he's 20, he will, but what isn't good is the way it affected him, I've not seen that from him before, and hope it gets picked up and addressed by the coaching staff. Making mistakes when you see more ball than most is inevitable, letting it put you off your natural game afterwards is not.

Dembele - Good decision to play him today, his skill set is valuable in games like this, he works without the ball and shows up for it and doesn't fritter it away carelessly as some others do. Really unlucky to be subbed instead of Chadli or the wilting Eriksen.

Eriksen - Good first 20, looked disinterested for the next 40 and then came back into the game. His work without the ball got really fucking lax second half and he bottled a couple of tackles.

Chadli - he's still a bit lax with the pressing, and can be so frustrating in good situations like the one at the end. Apart from that was OK today.

Kane - lovely chip pass for Eriksen, but woefully greedy when he shot from an angle instead of trying to find Chadli who was on his own in the middle. He still holds onto the ball instead of releasing it simply at times and after the first 20 minutes his pressing was very poor, and he's the one that has to lead the charge.

Mason - I thought he did well when he came on.

Alli - Not on for long but did OK I thought.

Brilliant post BC. It took 65 mins for united to register a shot on target at Old Trafford and it's not often you can say that. 1 silly mistake cost us the game, but that is the price you pay for having such a young squad. These mistakes will get fewer and fewer as time goes on.

We just seem to lack a bit of quality in the final 3rd and that right side continues to be a problem. Dembele had a decent game but he isn't the answer from an attacking sense, Lamela continues to test my faith in him and I just can't see him working out for us anymore and Townsend is far from good enough. Yarmolenko would add so much to this team.

Kane is a player I love to bits and I think he will continue to improve but 1 thing he did that really surprised me was when someone played a beauty of a ball that put Eriksen through on the left (Romero saved his shot low to the keepers right) and Kane just jogged into the box when he should have bust a nut trying to get into the 6 yard box and in the end, Eriksen had no other option but to shoot.

A lot of positives but I feel the negatives in the final 3rd can only be fixed with new signings.

Edit: Forgot to say, great work by our fans at Old Trafford, there were large parts where I could only hear them and couldn't hear the Utd fans through the TV.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Three points thrown away because of our failure to bring in the players we desperately need to bring in.

We didn't deserve to lose, Utd were there for the taking if we had any pace or threat up front to link up with Kane.

Defence looks much better, but Dier,though admittedly he defended ok, not what i want in CM.

Levy goes on about wanting top 4, but doesn't seem to bothered about losing points to our 'rivals' just so he can save a few bob in the window by going to the wire, which could in the end cost us much more..

Before the game i was dreading a hammering, in the end if we had brought in our targets i think we would have beaten them comfortably, that in itself makes me fucking angry.

Too many attacking players in our side just going through the motions with no real threat or desire, apart from the first and last 10 mins...Utd were poor and we let them off the hook, any decent side would have wiped the floor with them.

Mom Toby
Good Walker,Davies,Jan
Ok Vorm,Dier
Average Kane,Eriksen,Mason,Lamela,Ali
Poor Dembele,Chadli,Bentaleb.

 

[THOWIG]

Pulis said the other evening that Pochettino's Southampton side was the hardest team he faced as a manager.
I think the first 20 mins illustrates his style of play really well, but after the own goal we lacked that leader on the pitch who could shout at every individual and get them to knuckle down as we stopped playing.
The huge thing for me is at left back. Uniteds full backs would have been perfect for us yesterday. I think we are fine on the right and Walker had a really good game, but Davies offers very little from an attacking perspective. If Guardiola was in charge he'd play Davies as the third centre back and in all honesty I think he could end up as a central defender. Without Rose we lack the pace to attack from deep. I'd feel a little more confident if we had a pacier alternative to Davies, but still think he has promise.

Basically we need more pace!

 

[Gilzeanking]

Overall ,we certainly weren' t overawed . We looked pretty solid , had 50% of possession . Utd only had a shot or two .
Obviously we require some attacking talent , but hopefully......its being sorted .

You do wonder if there is a connection between his public, loud and successful wage agitation through the summer and Bentaleb's (4) simply terrible start in Germany and OT . Of the 3 goals we've conceded in the 3 matches , Bentaleb has handed out 2 on a silver platter .

His summer deal has meant that Bentaleb is set up for life . He's still a kid and I'd speculate it's affected him . He is a prime candidate for hair dryer treatment plus dropping for a match or 3 . At the mo he's losing us matches pretty much on his own .

Points to Poch for hooking him , could have gone sooner mind .

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I would say Bentalabs misplaced pass to Mata wasn't intentional ether but would certainly count towards his rating. Anyway, I'm not suggesting Walker wasn't good, just that the team as a whole were pretty drab.

I think that is the difference between a forced and an unforced error

 

[We need another Hoddle]

Mosy worrying that 2 people on here voted Bentaleb as MOTM. They must be Utd fans in disguise

 

[tobi]

Anyone saying Kane is greedy all great forwards should be.

When Adebayor led the line people moaned he weren't greedy enough lol.

There's nothing wrong with being greedy as a forward but it doesn't give the forward the green light to shoot from wherever he wants, especially when a team mate is in a better position.

Saying sorry afterwards isn't good enough.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

If we are going to keep playing 4231, I think we need full backs with pace but who can also deliver something too. I'm not averse to having some attackers with pace either as options, but the full backs are supposed to be providing the wide threat.

I tend to agree with this. Don't get me wrong, I love a pacey attacker but I'm a formation where the front four contest the middle, quick feet and quick thought are more important. This is why Kane, Eriksen, Chadli and in theory Pritchard and Carroll all suit the style, while Townsend and Lennon just don't. 442 or even 433 with wingers on their strong foot, those two (and actually, I imagine, Lamela), suddenly look better.

In Walker, Trippier, Rose, Yedlin and even Davies the pace is there, but as yet only really Tippier and occasionally Davies provides the delivery. All are young, if they're willing then they'll improve.

I personally still think the key to everything is a CM who can decide and dictate the pace of our play. I'd even sacrifice some pressing in CM if it meant putting in a positionally intelligent player with top class awareness and a great range of passing. Yesterday it wasn't Schneiderlin I was envious of, it was Carrick. If you had him next to any of Mason, Bentaleb, Alli, guiding them through a match and taking charge of the ball then all would be far better players for it and our play would flow far more naturally. You could hope that one of them would develop into that kind of player but I think you either have it or you don't, as Carrick had it as soon as he broke into the West Ham side. Put him next to Mason or Alli, with the kid going box to box and Carrick pulling the strings (much like in his one great season with Jenas) and we have a seriously good midfield. I know you and many other earmark Bentaleb for this but I just don't see it. However, I'm desperate to be proven wrong as our manager clearly liked the guy. Unfortunately in Bentaleb I see far more Jamie Redknapp or Ray Wilkins than than I do Carrick, a guy who just doesn't do much in either direction.

 

[JimmyG2]

We had two midfielders that aren't able to receive the ball with any kind of pressure on them. It is imperative that we add a midfielder as well as the much needed pace upfront and wings. The plus point was that the defence looked fairly solid and we have some decent strength in depth

We have too many players who can't turn on the ball.
They usually play the way they are facing, often backwards
Great players can turn.
Modric is our best recent example and he could play off either foot.
It's as much a question of attitude as touch.
The goal? Its behind you!

 

[guiltyparty]

Did annoy me that Shearer said it was a very Spursy performance on MOTD (true) yet completely failed to mention how terrible Utd were.

Ditto the Lineker PR piece with Sherwood after they were dicked for most of the game

Does reinforce that history is written by the victors (and their mates in the media)

 

[Mr Pink]

Cheers BC. We don't always see eye to eye, but I do think we share a similar approach to what we want from Spurs. I,e, effective football (rather than fancy but haphazard football).

I certainly liked what AVB was trying to do. Under him we finally looked organised, well-drilled, and generally tough to break down. He also seemed like someone with a plan, rather than just a "runaraandabit" approach.

There's this misconception on this forum (largely my own fault) that I don't like Pochettino. That's not true. I wanted FDB (still do, to be fair), but I warmed to Pochettino when he was at Southampton. That performance against Arsenal was like football Nirvana for me - as if the team was anticipating exactly what I wanted them to be doing.

It's the attack that worries me, but I guess this is one area that he's had to live with without any new signings. I know you're not a huge fan of Berahino (for legitimate reasons, in my opinion), but one thing about him is that he's direct. Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela...they all seem too cautious. It's possible that this might be one of the issues that is down to Pochettino's direction, but it could just be their lack of quality.

To reiterate, it's not the general approach that I find tedious, but the absence of imagination in our attacking play. We look organised, but don't have that cutting edge...yet.

My idea of a perfect performance is a 1-0 win that forces the goal then shuts down the opposition, with maybe a 2-0 outcome due to a great piece of counter-attacking. I've never been a lottery football kind of guy. But the key point is that the type of teams that play that way successfully tend to know how to unlock their opponents effectively.

Nice post mate.

I agree with you, I worry about our attacking play to. Its lacking in ideas and the balance is wrong IMO. Too many nice technical players who can't stretch the play, and their movement isn't good enough a lot of the time either. We need someone who's going to really commit defenders...that's what disrupts the opponents shape and leaves gap to exploit.

If we had one or two players doing that then Eriksen would become more of an influence and Kane would have more clear cut opportunities to work with,

Our pass and move is just too slow at times and that's why our play is looking unimaginative. Of course this enables a good degree of control in games but if we arn't looking like hurting the opposition enough its not going to be effective enough overall.

Players like Berahino, and Njie possibly, are absolutely essential now IMO. Direct running and committing defenders is something we arn't seeing anywhere near enough of. Everything we do is a slow build up, often resulting in a lot of sluggish sideways passing and then it end ups going back as the opposition find it simple enough to defend against.

 

[DJS]

Lol The Shitty Sun only gave Toby a 5 rating wtf??

Dumb fuckers..:

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Just seen the game. We were superior overall. Far more competitive than many Spurs teams that have gone to OT in the past twenty years.

Our fitness is incredible.

Walker played well but what the hell was he doing way up the field that forced him to race back and ultimately score the winner for Manure ?

I reckon we are fine excepting that expensive player or two that can open up the opposition. Nevertheless it's going to be interesting when we get going in the Cups and see who stakes a claim for first team like Kane did last year.

 

[whitelanefever]

Vorm 7... Good distribution.. done nothing wrong
Walker 7.. Done well
Alderwiereld 8.5..Really impressed with what I saw, I knew he was a decent defender but was really surprised with how good he was yesterday.. he communicates very well
Jan 7 Good performance
Davies 7.. everyone knows I don't rate him but fair dues he had far better positioning defensively yesterday & done well
Dier 7.5.. For someone that's not cm thought he was excellent & long-term I think this stint in midfield will benefit him as a centre-back, it will give him a better understanding of what happens ahead of him & improve his positional sense
Bentaleb 4,...Not at the races, looked not up to match speed, he's young & that's what happens with inexperience.. good day's & bad day's.. this was one of those bad day's
Dembele 7.5.. I thought he was very good defensively & looks a lot fitter than he has before
Eriksen 7 Very good in parts & put a shift in
Chadli 4.... I forgot he was playing
Kane 7.. Tough game for him but he stuck at it & done well
Subs.. Lamela added energy, Mason made a big difference, Ali hard to judge but he didn't weaken the team

Overall both teams nullified each other, defensively I thought we were well organised but we lack quality on the ball, Utd struggled with balls played in behind them & we didn't exploit that enough, we also lacked energy in our pressing in periods. Tactically I thought it was a good game to watch & was really impressed with how Utd moved the ball in midfield once they went ahead but credit to our lads they remained defensively organised & kept there shape.. a couple of seasons ago I think heads would of dropped & we would of folded. If we add some players with movement & quality on the ball we have the making of a very good side imo.