Our foreign players are much better technically...

[michaelden]

I read something somewhere (nice and vauge sorry) that there was a trial going on where under 10's were playing a rule that made the defensive team drop back into their own half for goalkicks, allowing the goalkeeper to play it short and get the attacking team comfortable playing it out from the back. This was on smaller pitches too. interesting way I thought.

Until the FA and probably more importantly supported by the Premier League, get a full plan for youth development like in Holland & Spain we will see more and more of a gap between quality of English players.

It is very noticable the number of English players playing abroad is and has been negligible for years where as the Premier League has lots of nationalities which frees up space in their top leagues for youngsters to come through. Ours end up on loan in the championship

I seem to remember an article/ interview with Ronaldinho/ Xavi or some star and he was saying he never played on a full size pitch until he was like 16 or something. All training games were on half size pitches and they often used a futsal ball (cos it has foam in it so it doesn't bounce, is heavier & smaller). This forced passing rather than hoofing, and the 11v11 on a 1/2 size pitch meant close quarters possession, pressure & passing.

I think it was some article on Barcelona but not sure. It was easily 4-5 years ago. Maybe more, it was why I bought a futsal ball. So I can have fun and be uber-cool at the same time... nearly broke my toe trying to hoof it in sandals. I'm a twat

 

[michaelden]

This basically sums up what the FA are trying to do, with regards to the national team

What? Appoint a long ball coach at youth level and screw England for years?

 

[brasil_spur]

It's the youth development of players. Youth football here still includes putting 9 year olds on full size pitches and full size goals with winning at all costs. Inevitably turns into who can kick the furthest and highest. No development of skill is possible when you win by hoofing. Holland has their kids playing on small pitches and smaller teams until they're 14( I think). Means when they are beginning their football, they are actually learning the fundamental basics of control, passing and movement.

Likewise in Brazil the earlier player development is based around Futsal, it's where players like Ronaldinho built their strong close ball control skill.

 

[Wardy]

What? Appoint a long ball coach at youth level and screw England for years?

As in they're trying to work on building more technical skills for the youth development of england nationals

 

[thinktank]

Every age group's training has to be about having the ball and keeping it. They have to do as much ball work as possible.

By doing this it means that young player become more comfortable not in possession but also when they receive the ball. Too many times UK trained players still look afraid of the ball especially when receiving it in tight areas.

And too many times their first touch is woeful. Seen that so much and the difference is astonishing. It really shouldn't be the case.

 

[thinktank]

Seriously? It's not just our English players being less technical than our foreign ones. English players in general are far less technically proficient than a lot of other countries. I thought that was a well noted thing?

Most technically gifted English player we have is Tom Carroll.

Without a doubt. He'll be back next season to rock it. Still my favourite player of ours. Loan or no loan.
Unfortunately, he's an exception. Would like to see many more of his calibre and finesse.

 

[thinktank]

It's the youth development of players. Youth football here still includes putting 9 year olds on full size pitches and full size goals with winning at all costs. Inevitably turns into who can kick the furthest and highest. No development of skill is possible when you win by hoofing. Holland has their kids playing on small pitches and smaller teams until they're 14( I think). Means when they are beginning their football, they are actually learning the fundamental basics of control, passing and movement.

Remember seeing a clip of lamela playing in argentina when he was a kid, they were playing with one of those fuck-off heavy balls and mastering it, keeping the ball and playing lovely one/two touch. And that was years ago.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

This game is what made Ronaldinho great, Holtby learnt playing it and it is key to youth development in most Latin countries

Even in places like Holland, Spain and Portugal too.

I've played this sport a lot in the past 5 years or so and I am just staggered at the lack of participation/exposure it has in the UK. It should be the standard method of football in schools as it can be played in any half decent sized hall.

I was playing for Enfield futsal club and one of the guys there managed to get involved in the England set-up, they would get hammered by all the european minnows like Lietchenstein for example.

We're so far behind on a lot of levels, you only have to look at all England's performances in the international tournaments this summer to see that.

 

[thinktank]

To be fair, I think this has changed now. Maybe someone else with kids that age can confirm, but I thought that they have the kids playing something like 7 or 8 aside now up to a certain age.

I don't understand why they don't just let kids play futsal up to a certain age, you get so much more touches of the ball it's more enjoyable and helps with technique a lot.

That's what lamela was playing in the clip I referred to. Absolutely agree.

 

[thinktank]

Something i noticed last thursday with Lamela and Eriksen is the same, is they want the ball even when there is little space around them or the defender is up their backside as they are very comfortable receiving it in these areas. The problem was on Thursday especially was Naughton would not use Lamela because of this and would turn and play a five yard backwards instead of moving the play forwards.

I think this stems from English players growing up with the mentality that if you marked, then you don't want the ball. It's something that is being worked on at lower ages, which we won't see the fruition of this in the national team until 10-15 years down the line.

Mentioned this about lamela against tromso - he'll want the ball wherever and whatever situation he is in and it doesn't matter how many people he has around him because he knows he can do them. The problem is that our players don't know him enough yet to know he can deal with situations like that and players, like naughton, like you mentioned, don't trust themselves to be able to thread a cheeky ball into a tight space.

 

[chinaman]

The sad truth is that there are very few British players who are technically on par with most of the imports.

 

[thinktank]

The FA have and are continuing to change youth football at the moment. This season has seen the change at the younger ages (U7 & U8) to 5 a side on smaller pitches from 7v7. There has also been the introduction this year at U11 of playing 9v9 on smaller pitches using 16x7ft goals instead of the 21x7ft goals previously used. Next season it will be mandatory that U11's and U12's play 9v9 then U13's and above will be the only ones playing 11v11.

Mini soccer was introduced a few years ago with U7-U10's all playing 7v7, and U11's and above playing 11v11 sometimes on full size pitches. A chap called Nick Levitt at the FA is promoting the changes and has been working with grass roots clubs and leagues for the last couple of years to get a buy in from grass roots as a whole. I'm involved with a local club (youth chairman) and think the changes are all positive. In fact this season there has been a mandatory "retreat line" at the youngest ages where teams have to retreat to the half way line at goal kicks to encourage play from the back and not penalise goal keepers at the age of seven who can't kick a ball very far.

If interested then take a look http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review

The FA agree we are behind other countries as most European countries have been playing small sided stuff for years, but there has been a fair amount of reluctance from 'old school' people who consider the game in the only true content being 11v11.

That's all very encouraging. At least there is something in place to bridge the gap. Great info.

 

[vegassd]

English players are pretty cack in terms of technical skills, but to pay devil's advocate for one second...

You are comparing England to "foreign" which means the whole of the rest of the world. That's a pretty large talent pool to draw from. I'm sure there are plenty of plodders around Spain, Italy, Holland etc. but we don't buy them because they aren't very good and we can grow our own plodders.

Also, we play in England, where the weather is shite and the opponents include Stoke. That's not always the most pleasant environment for the tricksy players so there is definitely a place for our home grown knuckle draggers.

So it's not all bad!

 

[billnick]

+1 for FUTSAL

I've shot player presentations a few times here, and seen quite a lot of training sessions. I was staggered how much time is spent on tactics and fitness without the ball with a lot of highly regarded head coaches, and the odd player I've spoken to has said they'd prefer to use the ball in training a lot more. That echoes what Blanchflower was complaining about at Villa in his book, which was curious to me given the technical ability of a lot of the argentines. I asked a coach why that was, he said "but they already know everything about the ball".

 

[Sauniere]

The FA have and are continuing to change youth football at the moment. This season has seen the change at the younger ages (U7 & U8) to 5 a side on smaller pitches from 7v7. There has also been the introduction this year at U11 of playing 9v9 on smaller pitches using 16x7ft goals instead of the 21x7ft goals previously used. Next season it will be mandatory that U11's and U12's play 9v9 then U13's and above will be the only ones playing 11v11.

Mini soccer was introduced a few years ago with U7-U10's all playing 7v7, and U11's and above playing 11v11 sometimes on full size pitches. A chap called Nick Levitt at the FA is promoting the changes and has been working with grass roots clubs and leagues for the last couple of years to get a buy in from grass roots as a whole. I'm involved with a local club (youth chairman) and think the changes are all positive. In fact this season there has been a mandatory "retreat line" at the youngest ages where teams have to retreat to the half way line at goal kicks to encourage play from the back and not penalise goal keepers at the age of seven who can't kick a ball very far.

If interested then take a look http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review

The FA agree we are behind other countries as most European countries have been playing small sided stuff for years, but there has been a fair amount of reluctance from 'old school' people who consider the game in the only true content being 11v11.

I manage an under 11s team. we started at u7 which was 6 v 6 at the time. This has now changed to 5v5 though for u7s. The idea is that less players = more touches and smaller pitches, goals and balls mean everything is brought into scale with the physical size of the kids. The next step has also been to shorten the season. Before this year the youngest age groups still played a season from September to April which is like an adult playing a season lasting 2-3 years. The FA have changed this so that 3 separate competitions can be played in the same space of time. It means that teams can be re-organised by ability more often rather than waiting until the following September. Reduces the humiliation and dejection for teams that get hammered constantly, they can be moved out quicker etc. The retreat line has been introduced for lower age groups than mine which means the opposition team has to retreat back to the halfway line for goalkicks, giving the goalie the opportunity to learn how to kick without the fear of immediate pressure from forwards pouncing on poor kicks, it also encourages playing out from the back. We just missed out on this rule.

The 9v9 format was introduced last season, we've just moved into it this season.

Another law that has come into play this season is that goal difference is no longer taken into account in any youth league across the country. This is to protect teams getting trounced and players packing in due to low self esteem. If you find that your team is winning by 5+ goals then managers have to make changes to their team - either by changing players or some other method (employing a 3 touch rule etc) in order to stop or reduce the thrashing. For teams that are level on points in promotion or relegation positions a play off game (or games) will take place.

The FA are trying lots of things to increase the development of players from grass roots level. We're a long way behind Europe and the changes made are not yet coming to fruition in the players moving through to adult clubs. It's been a long term project and has required tweaking along the way and obviously the final result is yet to be seen but once these players that were in at the start of the model begin to play as adults we can gauge things better.

The biggest problems for coaches such as myself is the constant battle against kids parents (who think they know better/don't understand the changes in youth football to when they were kids) These parents need educating just as much as the kids do so they can give their support. There is also a big problem from Academies who up until now have ignored these FA methods and carried on doing as they please regardless of how many kids drop out of football as a result of their old fashioned attitudes. School football is also a major problem, many of them stuck in the dark ages and late to adopt the FA model.

 

[nidge]

If I had a kid with enough natural talent to get spotted I would be looking to get him to go to Holland, Spain or Germany to learn the ins and outs of the game.

 

[michaelden]

English players are pretty cack in terms of technical skills, but to pay devil's advocate for one second...

You are comparing England to "foreign" which means the whole of the rest of the world. That's a pretty large talent pool to draw from. I'm sure there are plenty of plodders around Spain, Italy, Holland etc. but we don't buy them because they aren't very good and we can grow our own plodders.

Also, we play in England, where the weather is shite and the opponents include Stoke. That's not always the most pleasant environment for the tricksy players so there is definitely a place for our home grown knuckle draggers.

So it's not all bad!

To quote Denilson after the Real Betis manager had said Denilson want ready for the adverse weather in Spain, "It also rains in Brazil". This myth of A cold night in Stoke is such a load of Shit. Look at the book, Football a game of numbers.

 

[Sauniere]

To be fair, I think this has changed now. Maybe someone else with kids that age can confirm, but I thought that they have the kids playing something like 7 or 8 aside now up to a certain age.

I don't understand why they don't just let kids play futsal up to a certain age, you get so much more touches of the ball it's more enjoyable and helps with technique a lot.

Futsal leagues are being introduced mate. They've just created a futsal league running alongside the league that my team is part of.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Futsal leagues are being introduced mate. They've just created a futsal league running alongside the league that my team is part of.

That's good to hear and I would say about time too.

 

[tototoner]

amazeballs

but to be fair the English FA do recognise this and have set out a template to resolve it, good luck to them