Our foreign players are much better technically...

[tototoner]

having watched a few youth games recently at my local park ( U11's U13's I think ) the kids seem to be scared of the ball and just want to hoof it every time it goes near them - the coach yelling at them to clear it or thump it doesn't help.

in Holland and Spain they are taught at a young age to love the ball, in England it seems they are taught to hate it

 

[ShelfSide18]

It's not a new phenomenon is it? I'd argue the biggest single difference between your typical British player and their continental counterparts is tactical, game intelligence. There is a technical deficit too, but in game understanding and intelligence we are way, way off.

I coach an U14s side and am actively involved in grassroots football at the moment, and tomorrow night I am attending an event which deals with the new 5v5 / 7v7 / 9v9 football which has been implemented recently. I've posted before on this, but we have a group of excellent people at the Fa working towards developing a brighter future with a clear playing and coaching philosophy, but we also have a lot of dinosaurs in high places, and lots of idiots throughout grassroots which need to be kicked out.

At my U14s game yesterday there was a 9v9 game going on behind me, young girl refereeing, kids must have been 10 years old - this is all positive - smaller sided games, a young girl refereeing and kids playing the game they love. Step forward a gigantic fuckwit calling himself a coach, essentially abusing his own players. Shouting, screaming at them. This is not, unfortunately a one off.

On the other hand, the game I was involved in was an absolute pleasure to be a part of, both mine and the opposition played some tremendous football, playing from the back, ball on the deck, dribbling, tricks, flicks - players playing free from fear. Coaches remained quiet, save for a little encouragement and the odd bit of simple instruction, parents were also fine and not shouting out 50 instructions per minute. My game gave me hope, the game behind didn't.

There is so much bad practice at youth level, I watched 2 training sessions this week and 20 minutes in there was still no sight or sound of a football - how can we develop top players who don't see the football for the most amount of time possible, and instead do brainless, and often entirely useless running exercises which show no idea about football fitness whatsoever. Kids of 8/9 doing laps? My warm-ups nearly always include a ball, and some technical and tactical content - it's not difficult, it's also much more fun and useful for everyone involved.

We also need to let our kids play too, let them dribble, let them experience the ball at their feet and their heads will gradually come up. Stop barking at them to do this, do that, 'get rid', 'not there son too risky' etc. Let them play, let them learn and then you end up with a production line of footballers who play without fear, who have technical, and if you're a smart coach, tactical ability and game understanding.

We are behind your Germany/Holland/Spain's etc, but at least there is a small but growing community of coaches and such who are affecting change in this country. It may take a while to really take hold, we have a culture to shift and a lot of dinosaurs to root out but we'll get there.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Futsal leagues are being introduced mate. They've just created a futsal league running alongside the league that my team is part of.

Doing my Futsal level 1 badge next month. Looking forward to it, need to get more kids playing this game.

 

[marmite79]

It's the youth development of players. Youth football here still includes putting 9 year olds on full size pitches and full size goals with winning at all costs. Inevitably turns into who can kick the furthest and highest. No development of skill is possible when you win by hoofing. Holland has their kids playing on small pitches and smaller teams until they're 14( I think). Means when they are beginning their football, they are actually learning the fundamental basics of control, passing and movement.

This hasnt happened here since about 1998. Under 7,8 and 9 switched to 6 and 7 a side on small pitches then. Pretty sure that is the case up to under 11 now. 11 a side on full size pitches for young kids stopped years ago.

 

[ShelfSide18]

If anyone is interested, here is the Fa's new 'Future Game' playing and coaching philosophy - it's good I think, but they need to be a bit more fucking brazen about it, get it out there and not be ashamed to shout it from the roof tops.

http://www.thefa.com/st-georges-park/discover/coaching/the-future-game

Threads like this will inevitably show there are like minded people around, if you can, get out there to a local club and coach, it will be the best thing you do all year.

 

[Sauniere]

having watched a few youth games recently at my local park ( U11's U13's I think ) the kids seem to be scared of the ball and just want to hoof it every time it goes near them - the coach yelling at them to clear it or thump it doesn't help.

in Holland and Spain they are taught at a young age to love the ball, in England it seems they are taught to hate it

I don't want to argue with you but you shouldn't judge youth football in England based on a few games you've seen at your local park, neither should you make the sweeping assumption that English kids are seemingly taught to hate the ball because it's just not true. In our league there is an excellent level of football played in the higher divisions. I've seen an awful lot of different teams play and can honestly say that the vast majority encourage kids to play the ball out from the back and not just hump it forward.

What you've described though does happen I can't deny it. One of the biggest failing in grass roots football is the lack of qualified coaches. We are way, way behind Europe in this. Things are improving but not at a quick enough rate. The temptation to tell kids to lump it forwards or clear it is extremely high when results become the be all and end all of the game rather than player development.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It's not a new phenomenon is it? I'd argue the biggest single difference between your typical British player and their continental counterparts is tactical, game intelligence. There is a technical deficit too, but in game understanding and intelligence we are way, way off..

This is spot on and what I've been arguing for a long time. I actually think most top English players have decent technical ability but it's the decisions they make on and off the ball that are lacking. If you watch teams like Germany and Spain their players are constantly making the right decisions on the ball - passing to someone in space rather than hoofing it. Or without the ball players make little movements to make themselves active and give the player on the ball an easy pass. English players on the whole haven't been coached at grass roots level to play pass and move football so our movement is static. Static movement more often than lot leaves players on the ball with no other option than to hoof it.

 

[Yid121]

Townsend is fucking mint on the ball but unfortunately he has next to know vision bar a few decent passes and just shoots every time.
I think Townsend is a very useful addition to the squad this season with Bale gone, he adds that directness, although Lamela could also fulfil that role.

 

[tototoner]

It's not a new phenomenon is it? I'd argue the biggest single difference between your typical British player and their continental counterparts is tactical, game intelligence. There is a technical deficit too, but in game understanding and intelligence we are way, way off.

I coach an U14s side and am actively involved in grassroots football at the moment, and tomorrow night I am attending an event which deals with the new 5v5 / 7v7 / 9v9 football which has been implemented recently. I've posted before on this, but we have a group of excellent people at the Fa working towards developing a brighter future with a clear playing and coaching philosophy, but we also have a lot of dinosaurs in high places, and lots of idiots throughout grassroots which need to be kicked out.

At my U14s game yesterday there was a 9v9 game going on behind me, young girl refereeing, kids must have been 10 years old - this is all positive - smaller sided games, a young girl refereeing and kids playing the game they love. Step forward a gigantic fuckwit calling himself a coach, essentially abusing his own players. Shouting, screaming at them. This is not, unfortunately a one off.

On the other hand, the game I was involved in was an absolute pleasure to be a part of, both mine and the opposition played some tremendous football, playing from the back, ball on the deck, dribbling, tricks, flicks - players playing free from fear. Coaches remained quiet, save for a little encouragement and the odd bit of simple instruction, parents were also fine and not shouting out 50 instructions per minute. My game gave me hope, the game behind didn't.

There is so much bad practice at youth level, I watched 2 training sessions this week and 20 minutes in there was still no sight or sound of a football - how can we develop top players who don't see the football for the most amount of time possible, and instead do brainless, and often entirely useless running exercises which show no idea about football fitness whatsoever. Kids of 8/9 doing laps? My warm-ups nearly always include a ball, and some technical and tactical content - it's not difficult, it's also much more fun and useful for everyone involved.

We also need to let our kids play too, let them dribble, let them experience the ball at their feet and their heads will gradually come up. Stop barking at them to do this, do that, 'get rid', 'not there son too risky' etc. Let them play, let them learn and then you end up with a production line of footballers who play without fear, who have technical, and if you're a smart coach, tactical ability and game understanding.

We are behind your Germany/Holland/Spain's etc, but at least there is a small but growing community of coaches and such who are affecting change in this country. It may take a while to really take hold, we have a culture to shift and a lot of dinosaurs to root out but we'll get there.

Good post and I wish you success

 

[tototoner]

I don't want to argue with you but you shouldn't judge youth football in England based on a few games you've seen at your local park, neither should you make the sweeping assumption that English kids are seemingly taught to hate the ball because it's just not true. In our league there is an excellent level of football played in the higher divisions. I've seen an awful lot of different teams play and can honestly say that the vast majority encourage kids to play the ball out from the back and not just hump it forward.

What you've described though does happen I can't deny it. One of the biggest failing in grass roots football is the lack of qualified coaches. We are way, way behind Europe in this. Things are improving but not at a quick enough rate. The temptation to tell kids to lump it forwards or clear it is extremely high when results become the be all and end all of the game rather than player development.

Good to hear, the standard I watch on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning while walking the dog is very basic level, not more than 20 supporters

 

[DubSpurs]

Well we keep selling our good british players at their peak to be fair... Carrick, Keane, Bale etc...

Republic of Ireland is not in Britain...

 

[Locotoro]

The simple truth of the matter is that the big European nations like Germany, Spain and France are light years ahead if us in developing young technically gifted players.
I was fortunate enough to experience this first hand in playing for Barnets reserve team about 12 or so years ago before they were initially axed due to money problems and eventually having my contract terminated.
I was considered to be quite technically adept but I was neither tall, especially strong or fast for a fullback and I struggled with the direct game play and hi octane high ball style in favour of players that looked like they should be on a rugby pitch.

When I left barnet my uncle, in spain, managed to get me a trial at sevilla atletico. (B team). I went out on to the training field thinking wow I'm one ofvthe biggest on the pitch, there's no way I'm going to get pushed around. And I was right but unfortunately such was the level of technical ability I couldn't get near the ball. Each and every one of them were of such a high technical ability that it was unreal.

EDIT: Just to add, the one thing that struck me is even though they pretty much all had the ability to dribble past the opposition of at least attempt it, they rarely did. It was very very push and run. Pass and move. In England, I was always taught that my position fell within one of 3 lateral lines: defence, a large midfield area and attack. In Spain, they were teaching them about their "vertical" responsibilities. (ie, LB also occupies LM and LW position. DC also occupies Fullback and DMC at times. Attacking midfielder also occupies Left, right and central forward positions. The difference is when they make great runs or movement they know exactly what they are doing because they have been trained for it. The last thing you need is a fullback with a great engine and pace and great movement to get up the line but doesnt know what to do when he's there or a no 10 with wonderful passing and movement but when he gets beyond the front man his shooting and finishing is piss poor or if he gets out wide, he cant cross. That is the difference that I learnt

 

[Mullers]

English footballers have always been way behind technically, thus the English football team have always been shit, with the exception of 1966,70 and 90 and euro side in 96. But even in 1990 England were pretty lucky to beat Cameroon and they scraped through against Belgium. Every time the England team fails there is a big discussion but nothing gets done. If anything I can only see the English footballers getting worse. It's a cultural problem, when I was growing up me and my mates could climb over the fence at the local school and play football on the concrete pitch, in the evenings and at weekends.

Today? No chance the place is fortified like a prison, football pitches and grassy areas have been bought by private developers and made into posh housing, the locals can't afford, thus forcing them to leave the area. Go to France and spain, you can see kids playing football and other sports and their parents will often join them too.

Here kids rather play football on their console than for real, while the grown ups work 24/7 in order to keep their job.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

England is far behind other countries regarding small sided games on small sized pitches for kids.

As well, in most other football mad countries youngsters play 24/7 day and night.

 

[Damian99]

To be fair, I think this has changed now. Maybe someone else with kids that age can confirm, but I thought that they have the kids playing something like 7 or 8 aside now up to a certain age.

I don't understand why they don't just let kids play futsal up to a certain age, you get so much more touches of the ball it's more enjoyable and helps with technique a lot.

That is quite correct, my youngest plays on small pitches with 6/7 aside all done by coaches who should have been on coaching courses and at least have some basic idea of what is required for the ages they are coaching.

That said, i go to watch matches and from what i have seen even at 7 years of age, it seems all about winning rather than enjoying what they are doing.

The guy that coaches the team my lad plays for(went to school with him) gives up loads of his time and is very committed but he chooses a different captain each week which is great for the kids(the kids love it wearing the captains armband) but at that age they have no concept of what it really means. He then stands on the sideline shouting at the captain to organize the team.

At 7/8, unless it is some very very exceptional talented kid none of them have any idea how or indeed what and where other players should be, or be doing.

 

[Jamturk]

The sad truth is that there are very few British players who are technically on par with most of the imports.

Yes this,

The continentals grew up with the technical as standard, over the years they introduced teamwork and work rate into their game. However England have to do it the other way around which I suspect is going to take a bloody long time.

Paulinho is the perfect example of this, 20 years ago he wouldn't of even made the Brazil squad.

 

[Kendall]

You still have to explain what futsal is to a lot of people in England. Across Europe and Asia people are playing futsal from a very young age now. The emphasis is on speed, awareness and finding a man in tight spaces. It's the new game.

The only top English players capable of playing this way seem to be Rooney and Wilshere, but the signs are getting better with the Barkleys and Carrolls appearing.

 

[Misfit]

I seem to remember an article/ interview with Ronaldinho/ Xavi or some star and he was saying he never played on a full size pitch until he was like 16 or something. All training games were on half size pitches and they often used a futsal ball (cos it has foam in it so it doesn't bounce, is heavier & smaller). This forced passing rather than hoofing, and the 11v11 on a 1/2 size pitch meant close quarters possession, pressure & passing.

I think it was some article on Barcelona but not sure. It was easily 4-5 years ago. Maybe more, it was why I bought a futsal ball. So I can have fun and be uber-cool at the same time... nearly broke my toe trying to hoof it in sandals. I'm a twat

Yep. Wearing sandals definitely makes you a twat. But you're our twat.

 

[Mullers]

Yes this,

The continentals grew up with the technical as standard, over the years they introduced teamwork and work rate into their game. However England have to do it the other way around which I suspect is going to take a bloody long time.

Paulinho is the perfect example of this, 20 years ago he wouldn't of even made the Brazil squad.

Many Brazilians would say that's not necessarily a good thing, they don't produce the Zico's, Falcao's and Socrates like they used to, had they won the 1982 world cup, Brazilian football might have been very different.

 

[Misfit]

Well, there's a happy medium. No need to go the full Dunga or anything, although they did win the CUp finally going that route.

Paulinho is a tough, disciplined footballer who can backheel the bastard into the net with the best of them. The perfect compromise and the direction modern football is going in. I like it myself.