Player Watch - Djed Spence - Genoa

[RJR1949]

James Ward Prowse....

Thank you

 

[felmani26]

I think most of us understand Spence isn't Conte's top choice for RWB, it's obvious. Elite winning coach comes in and wants a kid with 1 year in the championship? Hardly.

It's because he's HG and was cheap, although maybe not that cheap anymore.

Ultimately we have to sign one english player somewhere. I said the other day that RWB makes the most sense to take a punt on Spence, as opposed to other positions where there are top quality foreign options available, like CB and AM.

I think RWB is a position where you can get by with power, pace and lesser ability, than say other positions.

Although I wonder if Maddison as a AM, and then a foreign RWB could be a solution instead. But then that would likely cost ££££ so probably not a goer.

I would disagree with this statement as being a modern day wingback - especially in a Conte system - you need to be so much more involved and is a crucial element to how we function.

For me, I'm surprised the compromise is made here in a position of need and I think priority should be designated here over say a Maddison who I personally think is superfluous to a Conte system in having 2 harder working central midfielders.

 

[Aphex]

I would disagree with this statement as being a modern day wingback - especially in a Conte system - you need to be so much more involved and is a crucial element to how we function.

For me, I'm surprised the compromise is made here in a position of need and I think priority should be designated here over say a Maddison who I personally think is superfluous to a Conte system in having 2 harder working central midfielders.

Victor Moses won the league as a RWB in Conte's system. You really don't need a world class player in that position. Pace and Power and some dribbling ability goes a long way.

 

[Timberwolf]

I would disagree with this statement as being a modern day wingback - especially in a Conte system - you need to be so much more involved and is a crucial element to how we function.

For me, I'm surprised the compromise is made here in a position of need and I think priority should be designated here over say a Maddison who I personally think is superfluous to a Conte system in having 2 harder working central midfielders.

I imagine a lot of it is down to who is available and where the value is in the market.

To get a top quality homegrown CAM like Maddison we're looking at a huge fee, whereas Spence is relatively affordable.

If there was a top, top quality RWB available that was worth splashing the cash on, I'm sure we'd be willing to compromise in other positions. Thing is, that RWB doesn't seem to exist and the cheaper homegrown CAMs and CBs we could buy wouldn't get anywhere near the team.

Seems logical to do it this way round given the market and I suspect that's why we didn't move on from this deal weeks ago.

 

[felmani26]

Victor Moses won the league as a RWB in Conte's system. You really don't need a world class player in that position. Pace and Power and some dribbling ability goes a long way.

Granted but he's also had some bloody great wingbacks in which you only have to cast an eye back to his Inter team with Perisic and Hakimi and how superbly they complimented his system.

But on your sentiment, it does pose the question whether we dip our toe back into the Adama Traore water's again with a year left on his contract but i'm sure one of our resident ITK's has dismissed that completely previously.

I imagine a lot of it is down to who is available and where the value is in the market.

To get a top quality homegrown CAM like Maddison we're looking at a huge fee, whereas Spence is relatively affordable.

If there was a top, top quality RWB available that was worth splashing the cash on, I'm sure we'd be willing to compromise in other positions. Thing is, that RWB doesn't seem to exist and the cheaper homegrown CAMs and CBs we could buy wouldn't get anywhere near the team.

Seems logical to do it this way round given the market and I suspect that's why we didn't move on from this deal weeks ago.

Valid points indeed and I must say, as unrealistic as it is, it would be so intriguing to know who's on Conte's preferred list of options across the board and whether if we sign X we then look at Y in this position.

 

[Majick]

Wont go for JWP now.

Surprised we havent gone for Madueke as competition for Kulusevski and plays as 10 and Hoemgrown but hey ho

Madueke's been at PSV for 4 years so can't now be classed as homegrown for us for UEFA competitions - he might have done if we got him last summer, but it's too late now.

 

[Trix]

Granted but he's also had some bloody great wingbacks in which you only have to cast an eye back to his Inter team with Perisic and Hakimi and how superbly they complimented his system.

Yes but that was mostly playing 3-5-2, whereas so far with us he's tweaked that to 3-4-3. The wingbacks goal output won't need to be quite so apparent because he's getting it from 3 forwards rather than 2.

Obviously he wants something specific from each role but I'm not sure they need to be absolute top of the tree players at WB because he's getting more from his forward line.

 

[Nanky_1988]

Yes but that was mostly playing 3-5-2, whereas so far with us he's tweaked that to 3-4-3. The wingbacks goal output won't need to be quite so apparent because he's getting it from 3 forwards rather than 2.

Obviously he wants something specific from each role but I'm not sure they need to be absolute top of the tree players at WB because he's getting more from his forward line.

Assuming Doherty is going to be first choice and Spence would be rotation it’s not a terrible compromise if we get other positions filled with AC choices.

it’s interesting that AC has other choices, my thinking is he wants Di Lorenzo or Hakimi which are more expensive and not homegrown.

I’m surprised that AC is willing to compromise on RWB which is a position so important in his systems though. Him and Paratici know better than us though so I trust them ?

 

[yojambo]

Was there a thread that explained the HG quota and what the current squad needs to stay compliant with it?

Either I can't find it or have just completely made that up?

 

[worcestersauce]

Integral as wing backs are in Conte's system there is a bit more wriggle room in that position than defensive midfield.
The best part about Trix's post IMO is the explanation of dropping Phillips for Bisouma.

 

[chrisd2k]

This is what people don’t get Trix!

What don't we get? I think most fully understand thanks

 

[Stoof]

What don't we get? I think most fully understand thanks

Keep it calm. ?

 

[Cel]

Was there a thread that explained the HG quota and what the current squad needs to stay compliant with it?

Either I can't find it or have just completely made that up?

https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/tottenham-squad-2022-23.149917/page-3 maybe?

 

[felmani26]

Yes but that was mostly playing 3-5-2, whereas so far with us he's tweaked that to 3-4-3. The wingbacks goal output won't need to be quite so apparent because he's getting it from 3 forwards rather than 2.

Obviously he wants something specific from each role but I'm not sure they need to be absolute top of the tree players at WB because he's getting more from his forward line.

That's a fair assessment but then i think with Richarlison's purchase we could well see 352 being adopted at times this season with perhaps Kane dropping into a deeper/free role.

 

[DJS]

I'm equally surprised to find that so many posters overlook how strongly we finished the season, and how free scoring we were on some occasions. I agree that a new RWB and left footed CB are needed. Having said that I would be happy with Davies and Lenglet. Conte and Partrici know the individual players weaknesses and strengths better than any of us. Conte transformed Moses into a decent WB, I'm pretty sure he can do the same with Kulu, who is a far more talented player.

Hugo

Romero Dier Davies

Kulu Bissouma Bentancur Peresic


Son Kane Richarlison

We are also fascinated by having someone who is quick, obviously it helps, but the Doc scored shedloads and made numerous assists for Wolves by timing his runs, playing one - twos and opening up defences. We've seen may examples of how well Kulu can cross and shoot from the right. He is athletic and he is a fine player. If we don't sign a shiny new RWB all will not be lost.

Urgh another post putting Kulusevski at right wing back, no just no…

We have to play a proper right wing back there.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I will gladly take Maddison to meet the homegrown quota and have Conte spending whatever it takes on someone he totally prefers for the RWB. Wingbacks epitomise Conte's success. It will be so crucial to have one Conte fully wants.

Of course, we’d all ‘gladly take that’. You’ve picked the most expensive homegrown AM and then suggested an unlimited budget on a RWB. Unfortunately, there’s a budget. That’s been pretty well explained.

Sorry but again that's not how it works. What you are proposing is a huge fee on AM because of the HG proven experience, and then spending more on the RWB to get the best option. I'm sure you'd then want us to pay whatever it takes to get the further CB Conte wants as well.

Like I said it's about compromise to best fill out the squad to our budget.

#fluid

I suspect what Trix is saying, is there is a halfway house somewhere in the above. If we take a hit on the Maddison fee for a HG AM, then that leaves a smaller budget for RWB, however if the market then becomes worldwide from a HG v Non HG perspective, maybe there is additional value to be found that way.
We are going to have to take a hit on one HG player, where we will get rinsed on the perceived HG tax, just a case of seeing which one of the scenarios fits our budget best, HG RWB or AM.
Sounds like Conte gets that, so isn’t being too critical. Does seem like Conte and Paratici are on the same page.

 

[ssamme]

That's a fair assessment but then i think with Richarlison's purchase we could well see 352 being adopted at times this season with perhaps Kane dropping into a deeper/free role.

But that still gives you 3 forwards on the pitch, therefore reduces burden on the wing backs again. If the midfield was 3 of Bentacur, Skipp, Bissouma and Hojlberg then there would be more reliance on the wing backs for goals

 

[rio bryan]

So 3-4 spots to fill and one of them needs to be HG.

If Conte is underwhelmed by the HG options for RWB and CM, I wonder if we could go down the route of:

RWB - foreign
CB - foreign
CM - foreign
RW - replace Moura with a HG option eg. Harvey Barnes/Jesse Lingard

Sounds like Spence is the cheapest HG option though, so if that doesn't happen we're going to have to make a cost compromise on another position. As Trix says, all a fluid, moist, balancing act.

We are not buying another CM !!!!!

 

[Pebble Dash]

Yes but that was mostly playing 3-5-2, whereas so far with us he's tweaked that to 3-4-3. The wingbacks goal output won't need to be quite so apparent because he's getting it from 3 forwards rather than 2.

Obviously he wants something specific from each role but I'm not sure they need to be absolute top of the tree players at WB because he's getting more from his forward line.

Depends who we’re playing and how effective our counter-attacking play is. There were games last season with a 343 where Kane, Son and Kulusevski tormented the opposition. However there were also way too many games were we either failed to breakdown and/or dominant the cannon fodder or got played off the park more than once by our most realistic target in Chelsea.

The problem with a 343 as shown last season is that the front 3 can become isolated. Hopefully the introduction of Bissouma and a fit Skipp will improve our game control. When we are having to defend deep and the front 3 are cut off, we need our wing backs to be able to turn defence into attack quickly and/or be of sufficient threat to the opposition without the ball to stop them from overcommitting players forward.

Perisic plus an attack minded RWB who also has decent pace, strength and a killer instinct will be much more effective than having to play the limited Emerson and Doherty. They’ve each got their benefits but neither of them will make the opposition think twice about overcommitting or threatened by their counter-attacking abilities.

I agree we’re less reliant on our wing backs in a 343 scoring goals but they must offer much more of a threat than what we had last season whilst also having sufficient attributes (pace, strength, work rate) to not leave us exposed defensively. We basically need the next generation of Rose and Walker.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Was there a thread that explained the HG quota and what the current squad needs to stay compliant with it?

Either I can't find it or have just completely made that up?

There is no HG quota to be compliant with
Theres a non HG senior quota of 17 and there's all sorts of details round that plus youth back up.
ATM I think we have 16 senior NHG, not including those that seem surplus, but can easily be wrong

We certainly don't need to get anyone in just because they are HG. If we can get good HG like Kane Skipp and Sess then great, welcome aboard