Ratings vs Arsenal

[Bus-Conductor]

Nope, still don't get how this conclusion has been reached.

I watched the game.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I watched the game.

So did I. Although I don't have extremely high expectation levels.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Our implementation of it was piss poor.

in what way? we limited arsenal to few chances, their goal came directly from a mistake of our own and but for a rubbish final ball on multiple occasions we could've come away with far more than just the one goal. we drew the game. we couldn't have implemented it too badly. you're basically getting all pissy because all you want to see is pressing and possession, a gameplan we [rightly] decided was wrong for this particular game.

 

[Bulletspur]

Excellent post Blake.

And that's the whole point in terms of our game plan yesterday. It was never to swarm all over Arsenal pressing aggressively from the front.

In order to keep a shape you have to stay compact so although it invites the opposition on to you, because you're not actively pressing to win it back constantly, you're set up in a way that makes it very difficult for them to play through you - which is what they love to do and what they're best at.

So yes, the game plan was first to negate their main strength, but also to expose what they've shown to be vulnerable with time and time again - the counter attack.

So many recent example of this but the best counter attacking goal I saw at the Emirates was a United one. In fact there were two great ones in the same game. A couple of season's back when Park was playing for United - he scored one of them. The other Rooney scored, and it just ripped Arsenal apart - it was great counter attacking football, think he combined with Nani, and it just ripped Arsenal to shreds.

One thing I agree with BC on here is that Wenger is tactically poor, or stubborn might be a better word. That's why they won't win the League anytime soon though - he simply won't entertain any other way.

They had no real answer to what we're doing last night and there goal was fortunate the way it broke in the box for them. Some might say deserved given their domination of the ball, I wouldn't really. But the point is we wern't lucky to get a point like BC alludes to. Our game plan was spot on. We had the better attacking situations and we really should of won the game - that's the only disappointment I have.

I was proud of the performance, particularly when you consider the pressure we were under to see a real improvement.

That's as dangerous as we've looked at the Emirates in a long time IMO and I don't know why some are so disappointed.

Yes work towards a blueprint but what's wrong with having different blueprints in your locker for different opposition and styles.

I'd like to see a repeat of such tactics the next time we play them.

@Mr Pink While I agree with this whole heartedly, the point I was trying to make is for the other half of the equation, the counter play. I agree that it gave us 3 or 4 clear cut chances but, with a bit more pressing on the break it could have been 6 or 7 therefore increasing our odds of scoring one more goal ie the winner. Not saying that we had to be gungho, but after watching the game again, I realise although we could have done better, we did not do badly at all.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

@Spurs_Bear and the hypocrisy police will be all over this any minute now. Last year at the Emirates when some of us pointed out that our approach play was often decent and the only reason we didn't create better/more chances with it was for the self same reason of poor decision/execution it was called - with you as one of the cheerleaders - pointless possession.

So presumably you will be calling yesterday pointless no possession ?

Uh?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

in what way? we limited arsenal to few chances, their goal came directly from a mistake of our own and but for a rubbish final ball on multiple occasions we could've come away with far more than just the one goal. we drew the game. we couldn't have implemented it too badly. you're basically getting all pissy because all you want to see is pressing and possession, a gameplan we [rightly] decided was wrong for this particular game.

Boom.

 

[Mr Pink]

@Mr Pink While I agree with this whole heartedly, the point I was trying to make is for the other half of the equation, the counter play. I agree that it gave us 3 or 4 clear cut chances but, with a bit more pressing on the break it could have been 6 o 7 there by increasing our odds of scoring one more goal ie the winner. Not saying that we had to be gungho, but after watching the game again, I realise although we could have done better, we did not do badly at all.

I've just re-watched all of it, the whole 90 minutes as I sky plussed it.

We should of been 2-0 up at half time. Very frustrating we couldn't make more of our counter attacks.

Still have exactly the same impression. We defended well and had the better attacking situations. That's the long and short of it.

 

[SteveH]

I've just re-watched all of it, the whole 90 minutes as I sky plussed it.

We should of been 2-0 up at half time. Very frustrating we couldn't make more of our counter attacks.

Still have exactly the same impression. We defended well and had the better attacking situations. That's the long and short of it.

We need to build on this defensive improvement. It's the foundation of all good teams.
As you said we should have had more goals, we had at least two other good breakaways.

This is the start and it will take some considerable time to teach the team, so I hope people realise they will need to be very patient.

 

[Tit&Ham]

• Excellent point
• Excellent strategy resulting in approximately 3-4 good chances each.(every team in the league would have taken that at the emirates)
• Bad that we stopped counter attacking After 1-0.
• Some medium/bad performances (ade, and most offensive players)
• Some very good: Kaboul, and the defence in general.

I'm very happy with this, but I didn't think we looked like a top 4 team. But I am getting very close to feeling that we have an average squad for the most part.

I'd like Kane to play as a striker. It's probably not any better, but at least he is lively and unpredictable.

Still think Lamela will be a star.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

in what way? we limited arsenal to few chances, their goal came directly from a mistake of our own and but for a rubbish final ball on multiple occasions we could've come away with far more than just the one goal. we drew the game. we couldn't have implemented it too badly. you're basically getting all pissy because all you want to see is pressing and possession, a gameplan we [rightly] decided was wrong for this particular game.

I'm not sure I remember you buying into the but's and could've's so willingly last season. Do but's and could've's only work when we don't press and have the ball ?

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I've just re-watched all of it, the whole 90 minutes as I sky plussed it.

We should of been 2-0 up at half time. Very frustrating we couldn't make more of our counter attacks.

Still have exactly the same impression. We defended well and had the better attacking situations. That's the long and short of it.

When we're so short of quality up top, failure to take our counter attack opportunities will come back to haunt us.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Surely that is the point. I didn't change my opinion of the performance because we lost.

I guess 80% comprehension isn't bad.

Well no the point is you think we played better in a game we should have lost 5-0 over a game we drew 1-1 and had the better opportunities to win the game.

Tell that one to an alien.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

in what way? we limited arsenal to few chances, their goal came directly from a mistake of our own and but for a rubbish final ball on multiple occasions we could've come away with far more than just the one goal. we drew the game. we couldn't have implemented it too badly. you're basically getting all pissy because all you want to see is pressing and possession, a gameplan we [rightly] decided was wrong for this particular game.

We didn't enjoy much possession because we were too scared when we had the ball-not because it was the game plan. It wasn't until 37 minutes in when Cabbage Head had that wonderful chance (but fucked it up with a poor touch) that we grew in confidence and put some sustained pressure on them in their final third.

Capoue can be observed in the middle of the first half imploring our back line to push up.

Our last ditch defending was good but it has to be said that Arsenal didn't play with sufficient tempo in the first half and their use of the ball in the final third was not good enough.

Their goal came about because we were tired from not having the ball for most of the game and because we started to shit ourselves again after we had scored and sank back towards our 18 yard line.

EDIT: even though I wasn't satisfied with our pressing, it is incorrect to say that we did not press them at all; we made some sort of effort to press them in the first half but only really when they crossed the halfway line.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I'm not sure I remember you buying into the but's and could've's so willingly last season. Do but's and could've's only work when we don't press and have the ball ?

in what sense? i found avb and his ideas equally admirable as i did frustrating. he had the way he wanted to play and he didn't want to budge from that, i think with the right players it could've worked ... but we didn't have the right players so he should've adapted, he didn't and lost his job because of it. i know what he was trying to achieve, primarily he wanted to suffocate the opposition through pressing whilst restricting the space and then grinding them down by dominating the ball. unfortunately any one could see the players at his disposal weren't suited to pulling that off, they needed space to do anything productive going forward(that's why were we far better away) but all of avb's tactics were designed to condense the pitch(high line, inverted wingers, pressing high up) we had technically lacking players expected to pick through a bank of 10 in a 30x30 yard square, this often resulted in painfully slow and frustrating side-to-side play ending with stupid attempts on goal from all distances. the pressing and the domination of possession was actually hurting us, those players needed space to work. you won't want to hear this but ceding possession and drawing the opposition out a little would've actually helped us.

so yeah, there were ifs, buts and could'ves under avb, if he was more flexible then he could've kept his job longer. you're also fooling no one with this mourinho stuff, we all know you're a pep disciple, another stubborn, inflexible manager who refuses to adapt to the opposition or his surroundings. he sees bayern decimate barca by playing direct transitional football and then the next season decides i know, i'm going to get bayern playing like barca because that's the only way i know how and promptly gets bayern'd by madrid. what a great moment that was.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We didn't enjoy much possession because we were too scared when we had the ball-not because it was the game plan. It wasn't until 37 minutes in when Cabbage Head had that wonderful chance (but fucked it up with a poor touch) that we grew in confidence and put some sustained pressure on them in their final third.

Capoue can be observed in the middle of the first half imploring our back line to push up.

Our last ditch defending was good but it has to be said that Arsenal didn't play with sufficient tempo in the first half and their use of the ball in the final third was not good enough.

Their goal came about because we were tired from not having the ball for most of the game and because we started to shit ourselves again after we had scored and sank back towards our 18 yard line.

Fucking boom.

 

[Mr Pink]

• Excellent point
• Excellent strategy resulting in approximately 3-4 good chances each.(every team in the league would have taken that at the emirates)
• Bad that we stopped counter attacking After 1-0.
• Some medium/bad performances (ade, and most offensive players)
• Some very good: Kaboul, and the defence in general.

I'm very happy with this, but I didn't think we looked like a top 4 team. But I am getting very close to feeling that we have an average squad for the most part.

I'd like Kane to play as a striker. It's probably not any better, but at least he is lively and unpredictable.

Still think Lamela will be a star.

I just think we need to be patient mate. In time, and also with a few adjustments made to the squad, I think things will be looking a lot better.

I'm really excited to see more of Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen and Soldado/kane playing together. Last season was just such a cluster fuck, no consistency to anything. At least these three have started nearly all League games togther.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

When we're so short of quality up top, failure to take our counter attack opportunities will come back to haunt us.

Eleven grannies could look threatening on the counter attack against Arsenal. I just can't put my finger on what is wrong with that side when they have so many good/outstanding individuals.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

in what sense? i found avb and his ideas equally admirable as i did frustrating. he had the way he wanted to play and he didn't want to budge from that, i think with the right players it could've worked ... but we didn't have the right players so he should've adapted, he didn't and lost his job because of it. i know what he was trying to achieve, primarily he wanted to suffocate the opposition through pressing whilst restricting the space and then grinding them down by dominating the ball. unfortunately any one could see the players at his disposal weren't suited to pulling that off, they needed space to do anything productive going forward(that's why were we far better away) but all of avb's tactics were designed to condense the pitch(high line, inverted wingers, pressing high up) we had technically lacking players expected to pick through a bank of 10 in a 30x30 yard square, this often resulted in painfully slow and frustrating side-to-side play ending with stupid attempts on goal from all distances. the pressing and the domination of possession was actually hurting us, those players needed space to work. you won't want to hear this but ceding possession and drawing the opposition out a little would've actually helped us.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. But I don't necessarily think we would have fared any better overall by playing lottery football - with those same players (some poor defenders especially) - No team in my memory has ever achieved anything sustainable playing that way. Sherwood tried it and his PPG was barely an improvement. I think AVB's was better than Redknapp's wasn't it ?

so yeah, there were ifs, buts and could'ves under avb, if he was more flexible then he could've kept his job longer. you're also fooling no one with this mourinho stuff, we all know you're a pep disciple, another stubborn, unflexible manager who refuses to adapt to the opposition or his surroundings. he sees bayern decimate barca by playing direct transitional football and then the next season decides i know, i'm going to get bayern playing like barca because that's the only way i know how and promptly gets bayern'd by madrid. what a great moment that was.

Pep must be devastated. I guess he'll find some solace in his 4 league titles, 6 domestic cups, 2 champions leagues, 2 super cups, 2 world club cups in his 5 years as a manger eh ?

 

[Mr Pink]

We didn't enjoy much possession because we were too scared when we had the ball-not because it was the game plan. It wasn't until 37 minutes in when Cabbage Head had that wonderful chance (but fucked it up with a poor touch) that we grew in confidence and put some sustained pressure on them in their final third.

Capoue can be observed in the middle of the first half imploring our back line to push up.

Our last ditch defending was good but it has to be said that Arsenal didn't play with sufficient tempo in the first half and their use of the ball in the final third was not good enough.

Their goal came about because we were tired from not having the ball for most of the game and because we started to shit ourselves again after we had scored and sank back towards our 18 yard line.

EDIT: even though I wasn't satisfied with our pressing, it is incorrect to say that we did not press them at all; we made some sort of effort to press them in the first half but only really when they crossed the halfway line.

This isn't correct.

We had already produced some moments on the counter before Adebayor's chance, and we should of done a lot better with the counter opportunities.

Ten minutes in,(10.45) we break by Capoue winning the ball in exactly that area we've congested, central area in front of our box - he passes to Chadli who spins and passes it back to Capoue and he then slips the advancing Lamela, we're now looking at three on one. He has two options, pass to Adebayor, who's pulled wide into the left channel, or pass to Chadli who's making an excellent run through the center. Both are well on side.Even if he gets the ball right to Adebayor, which he fucks up completely, Ade can square to Chadli. He should of just fed Chadli who was away with their last defender in no mans land between Chadli and Ade.

It should of been a gilt edged chance and I froze it as soon as Lamela relases the ball and he has head in his hands immediately knowing what a missed opportunity it is.

That was the first big chance that should of developed into a one on one with their keeper.

The game plan was most definitely to keep a compact shape relatively deep and central, and to hit them on the counter.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I don't disagree with a lot of that. But I don't necessarily think we would have fared any better overall by playing lottery football - with those same players (some poor defenders especially) - No team in my memory has ever achieved anything sustainable playing that way. Sherwood tried it and his PPG was barely an improvement. I think AVB's was better than Redknapp's wasn't it ?




Pep must be devastated. I guess he'll find some solace in his 4 league titles, 6 domestic cups, 2 champions leagues, 2 super cups, 2 world club cups in his 5 years as a manger eh ?

Hahahahaha! Of course it was, he took over a team that had finished 4th, the other one took over one bottom of the league.

Did Man United play lottery football in 1999? 2 wingers, 2 strikers?