Match Ratings Ratings vs Brighton

[theShiznit]

there was a moment were he recieved the ball on the half turn with space in front of him and instead of driving forward he went backwards to one of the centerhalfs. Their was a loud negative reaction and to me the fans unnecessarily jumped on top of him, given the circumstances of trying to see out a tricky mid week game, before the man city game.

oh ok, getting confused, thought he was actually booed. That was a reaction to poor play but he was not "booed" afaiac. (phew)

Every player that's played in a stadium be it the best or worst player has been on the receiving end of a groan before. Hopefully it will not affect him negatively.

 

[kaz Hirai]

there was a moment were he recieved the ball on the half turn with space in front of him and instead of driving forward he went backwards to one of the centerhalfs. Their was a loud negative reaction and to me the fans unnecessarily jumped on top of him, given the circumstances of trying to see out a tricky mid week game, before the man city game.

Didn't see the game but Winks playing the safety Ball instead of being more aggressive is nothing new. He does it all the time, generally making sure he keeps possession. He may gain more confidence as he improves and plays more
Maybe the crowd were just extra grumpy with the cold.

 

[BPR_U16]

Was he actually booed?

No ..... end of.

 

[dagraham]

Anyone booing Winks for that deserves a ban for life. Morons.

No one booed Winks and he was applauded off the pitch when subbed. Get a grip. The crowd let off a collective groan borne of frustration of another performance with endless backwards and sideways passes, very little movement and poor quality. Rather like the majority of league games at Wembley this season.

 

[Disconosebleed]

It was an instinctive reaction in the moment, I don't think it had anything to do with his overall performance, in fact I don't think it had anything to do with him, it was just a player passing backwards when he didn't realise he had time to turn and move forward into space, and the crowd showing frustration at the missed opportunity. He came off a couple of minutes and got a very warm reception, which I suspect was the crowd recognising how the earlier reaction might affect his confidence.

No real issue basically.

As for ratings...crap game between one team that didn't want to play football and one that couldn't be bothered to. Vertonghen and Aurier were decent, the rest were all pretty mediocre. I went with Vertonghen but even he was a 6.5 at best.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

The fans got on Winks back a bit too much but there wasn’t any booing, but yes that’s not what we need. That said, he was god awful tonight and played completely within himself. Dembele would’ve been crucified for that much sideways and backwards passing. Kid has all the ability but needs to grow a pair, this was Brighton, not Madrid. His Wilkins impression meant Eriksen kept dropping deeper and deeper to get the ball, which essentially castrated us in the final third.

All of that said, neither Winks nor Eriksen were helped by Kane doing his best impression of Nelson’s column.

We actually started both halves pretty well, created a fair bit too, but deteriorated quickly. Some credit to Brighton for executing the Tony Mowbray tactic almost to a tee, but ultimately we created enough by way of chances to justify the two goal margin.

Lloris was fine, mopped up some elementary stuff.

Aurier, wonderfluke aside, was pretty good, less of the erratic bollocks and some clever passing with good link up.

Dier was fine when not trying to impersonate Baresi.

Vertonghen was fine, cool, and importantly not booked.

Rose played well, took up some good positions and provided a good outlet.

Sissoko broke into Brighton’s box well and linked up nicely with Aurier and Lamela, caused some danger.

Winks had a night to forget. Didn’t justify the groans but isn’t good enough off the ball to justify such reluctance on it, I expect that passing demonstration from Wanyama or Dier because at least they are good war horses, Winks will never be this so he needs to play make to justify his inclusion. It’s fine, none of Carrick, Modric or Xavi were doing much more than sideways and backwards at his age and they’d had a damn sight more experience.

Lamela was lively, positive and played some nice passes, keeping our attack moving fluidly. Something to build on.

Eriksen was constantly trying to make things happen but was not able to get on the ball in dangerous enough areas apart from one skilful run into the box.

Son was erratic, some lovely touches and runs, some weak moments where he was too flimsy, but he was our most likely threat and killed the match with a difficult headed goal to secure the win,

Kane was awful. Selfish, statuesque, unwilling in the press. If the game v Stoke was Shearer like, tonight was more Pavlyuchenko.

Dembele came on and we never lost possession again.

Dele came on and took a ridiculous shot.

Davies came on and got rained on.

 

[theShiznit]

The fans got on Winks back a bit too much but there wasn’t any booing, but yes that’s not what we need. That said, he was god awful tonight and played completely within himself. Dembele would’ve been crucified for that much sideways and backwards passing. Kid has all the ability but needs to grow a pair, this was Brighton, not Madrid. His Wilkins impression meant Eriksen kept dropping deeper and deeper to get the ball, which essentially castrated us in the final third.

All of that said, neither Winks nor Eriksen were helped by Kane doing his best impression of Nelson’s column.

We actually started both halves pretty well, created a fair bit too, but deteriorated quickly. Some credit to Brighton for executing the Tony Mowbray tactic almost to a tee, but ultimately we created enough by way of chances to justify the two goal margin.

Lloris was fine, mopped up some elementary stuff.

Aurier, wonderfluke aside, was pretty good, less of the erratic bollocks and some clever passing with good link up.

Dier was fine when not trying to impersonate Baresi.

Vertonghen was fine, cool, and importantly not booked.

Rose played well, took up some good positions and provided a good outlet.

Sissoko broke into Brighton’s box well and linked up nicely with Aurier and Lamela, caused some danger.

Winks had a night to forget. Didn’t justify the groans but isn’t good enough off the ball to justify such reluctance on it, I expect that passing demonstration from Wanyama or Dier because at least they are good war horses, Winks will never be this so he needs to play make to justify his inclusion. It’s fine, none of Carrick, Modric or Xavi were doing much more than sideways and backwards at his age and they’d had a damn sight more experience.

Lamela was lively, positive and played some nice passes, keeping our attack moving fluidly. Something to build on.

Eriksen was constantly trying to make things happen but was not able to get on the ball in dangerous enough areas apart from one skilful run into the box.

Son was erratic, some lovely touches and runs, some weak moments where he was too flimsy, but he was our most likely threat and killed the match with a difficult headed goal to secure the win,

Kane was awful. Selfish, statuesque, unwilling in the press. If the game v Stoke was Shearer like, tonight was more Pavlyuchenko.

Dembele came on and we never lost possession again.

Dele came on and took a ridiculous shot. (that we never lost possession from?)

Davies came on and got rained on.

 

[TwanYid]

Anyone booing Winks for that deserves a ban for life. Morons.

Anyone booing ANY Spurs player deserves a ban for life. We can be disappointed internally- but demonstratively is simply not on. Horrible are the fans that "get on" our own players after they fuck up; it does nothing but contribute to- and/or create- a poisonous atmosphere. Having a moan on a forum does not equate to booing a player at the game. We should ALWAYS be supporters when we attend the match, otherwise we might as well be Ars*nal fans.

 

[allpaths]

Didn't see the game but Winks playing the safety Ball instead of being more aggressive is nothing new. He does it all the time, generally making sure he keeps possession. He may gain more confidence as he improves and plays more
Maybe the crowd were just extra grumpy with the cold.

Winks is generally very progressive with his passing and there's countless example this season of his quick line breaking passing leading to goals. Today Winks was more ponderous and sideways on the ball today because the off the ball movement was very static and lazy at times, adding Brightons very compact and deep shape gave him very little forward options.

 

[allpaths]

oh ok, getting confused, thought he was actually booed. That was a reaction to poor play but he was not "booed" afaiac. (phew)

Every player that's played in a stadium be it the best or worst player has been on the receiving end of a groan before. Hopefully it will not affect him negatively.

It was more then your average moan it was something in between booing and a groan. It was pretty nasty sounding, though the crowd did redeem itself with applauding Harry off.

 

[theShiznit]

It was more then your average moan it was something in between booing and a groan. It was pretty nasty sounding, though the crowd did redeem itself with applauding Harry off.

Unfortunately for Harry it was a natural crowd reaction to a pretty poor piece of play that had come after a very frustrating slow/backwards game.

As I said, I reacted badly to it in the comfort of my own home, and I got nuttin but love for Winks.

 

[steve]

Winks didn't have a good game and there was a definite point first half when he misplaced a pass and he hung his head. This was after a few miss placed passes and it definitely affected him, from then on he played it fairly safe and got some groans for it. Just hope Poch sticks with him because we need him firing Saturday.
Dembele didn't nothing incisive but didn't give it away and so escaped the moans that Winks got.

Brighton played it well defensively, didn't press and just parked the bus and we struggled to break it down, only difference 2nd half was they left the CF up rather than drag him back in.

Can't give Serge MOTM he dived in at least twice 2nd half to try and win balls he couldn't in front of his man and got turned leading to them having attacking situations that could've been avoided, thought both him and Danny delivered little of quality in attacking situations either.

In a tight tough game, Son gets it for me all day, was sharp, quick, and always on the move when others seemed to be stuck in treacle at times, didn't always deliver but tried to make things happen.

This was a lot harder than Stoke who folded, they kept their shape and didn't alter it much after the goal, and we looked a little like we have in our blip games recently.

Sissoko wasn't terrible but I just don't get it, he's uncomfortable on the ball and pointless against bus parkers who we need to move the ball quickly against, was surprised he stayed on when Lamela (who was decent) and Winks went off.

Can't see us getting owt at City unless we score first, and Poch must get the midfield right to give us a chance.

 

[Hazardousman]

I have to ask, what was up with Kane tonight? He looked incredibly stroppy and was not his usual self, still carrying a knock?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

These type of games are becoming so commonplace, and not just for us, I watched the second half of the West Ham/Arsenal game after ours and it followed a very similar pattern, even the likes of ManU are treating anyone in the top 6 like a bus terminal.

We've all watched that game a hundred times, probably literally, from the time AVB was here onwards. Yes, we are now a better team, with better individuals, but the bus parkers are better too, with better players.

For me, the problem is being exasperated by the fact that not once this season has Poch actually got the blend and balance completely right. Some of that is because of injuries, but some is due to selections.

I liked the the theory of switching to a 433, it should have helped us maintain a high press, and against bus parkers it should mean you get runners from deeper harder to pick up positions ghosting forward as opposed to clogging the top end of the pitch up with bodies that just cause congestion.

Tonight it was just nuances that didn't help, and maybe those nuances weren't huge and might not have ultimately made a quantum difference, but they might just have made a small enough difference to matter. Tonight, IMO, the inclusion of SIssoko, as one of the two 8's, who brings absolutely zero to the game for us, no vision, no intelligence, poor positional play (I actually watched one phase of play where he just continually took up positions that were completely counter intuitive for whoever had the ball, didn't pull the opposition out of shape he invariably found himself standing in the same spaces as his team mates, particularly Aurier and Lamela), can't dribble in the tight, compressed areas of a bus park, if people were disappointed with Winks's passing tonight, what the fuck did they think of Sissoko's ?

Playing Winks as the central anchoring hub, as opposed to the right side 8 position that Sissoko played wasn't a catastrophe, but in this 433 format, I'd much preferred to have seen him there, with a little more freedom to look forwards and be more progressive than being slightly shackled with slightly more responsibility having to hold things together centrally. There were several times - particularly noticeable around the 30 minute mark when he received the ball central/right, looked up and pleaded for a forwards out ball, Sissoko, the right 8 pivot who should be providing the link between midfield and attack was instead lost in the netherland and unreachable, Winks ended up holding his arms out exasperated and turning sideways or backwards.

I'm really not sure why Dembele wasn't started instead, it's not like he's had much football this year, meaning Winks could have played as the more forward CM in a CM2 or as the hybrid 8 in the CM3, allowing him to get into forward areas and take more risk with his passing in forward areas and maybe make the type of incisive pass, Sissoko is never going to make.

Brighton were a fucking tough nut, this is what they have done pretty well for much of this season, and even better teams than us have struggled to create shitloads against them.

It's very hard to pass incisively against a team like this, we know this, it's the same for all teams, and we had all our better creatives out there tonight, Eriksen, Winks, Lamela, Son, Kane and even Alli for a bit and we barely bothered the XG Richter machine. A lot of that was Brighton, but some of it was us. Our movement wasn't always good, and some of our decision making at crucial times lacked intelligence. Aurier whacking it goal wards with a man in front of him when he'd been put in behind for one of the few times, instead of just tapping it back to Son, and Kane was guilty a handful of times of trying blast his way through layers instead of laying it off to someone better placed, once in particular when he could have played Aurier in. All the others were reasonably ineffective too, Winks and Eriksen included.

In the end it was an attritional victory, the laws of football physics meaning that eventually having 97% possession meant that sooner or later we'd earn a break, and we did.

Games like this are the omnipresent reward and torture for being a very good team, but not quite a brilliant one.

Individual

Lloris - Fuck all to do.

Aurier - A mixed bag. A couple of decent moments getting forward but some waste too. Flukey goal. Got skanked diving in a couple of times when their fella got past him down the flank, but defended well a couple of times too.

Dier - OK, but wish he'd resist the urge to try the long passes sometimes.

Vertonghen - OK.

Rose - Wasteful in forward areas, Ok apart from that, barely tested defensively.

Sissoko - He didn't do anything drastically bad, but then he doesn't attempt to do anything inspirational either, so hardly surprising. He's just a pointless appendix. There is nothing clever or even effective about him. If POch played him as a wide forward in a 433 and let him charge at full backs directly it might achieve something, but played as an 8 against a bus parker is just setting him up to fail. Don't rate him at all, but don't rate Poch for putting him there either.

Winks - OK.

Eriksen/Lamela - OK/meh

Son - OK plus

Kane - Bit less than OK.

 

[tiger666]

Sissoko - He didn't do anything drastically bad, but then he doesn't attempt to do anything inspirational either, so hardly surprising. He's just a pointless appendix. There is nothing clever or even effective about him. If POch played him as a wide forward in a 433 and let him charge at full backs directly it might achieve something, but played as an 8 against a bus parker is just setting him up to fail. Don't rate him at all, but don't rate Poch for putting him there either..

All of that to put down Sissoko then ..

Winks - OK.

Just 'ok' for Winks who had a worse game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

All of that to put down Sissoko then ..



Just 'ok' for Winks who had a worse game.

No he didn't. He misplaced a couple of passes, at least he did that attempting to make them, Sissoko doesn't even attempt a remotely tricky or incisive pass.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

All of that to put down Sissoko then ..



Just 'ok' for Winks who had a worse game.

For the record, Winks made 96 passes and completed (88) 92.7% of them. Sissoko made 77 and completed 71 (93.5%) of them. Tell me how Sissoko contributed more to that game, because neither of them did anything other than pass, but at least Winks was more involved and had more responsibility.

 

[allpaths]

Unfortunately for Harry it was a natural crowd reaction to a pretty poor piece of play that had come after a very frustrating slow/backwards game.

As I said, I reacted badly to it in the comfort of my own home, and I got nuttin but love for Winks.

i have to admit, i also physically twitched in a very painful way too, but I didnt make a sound. But after I heard the reaction from the crowd I felt really bad for Harry because I think he's been great this season and doesnt derserve the stick.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think people are definitely being a bit harsh on Winks. I am not the leader of his fan club, I think he's not brilliant without the ball at times, and, if I'm brutally honest, I don't think he'll ever be Modric, but his passing, even on a night like tonight is still more metronomic, he still passes with more vigour and attempts to be more progressive than Dier or Dembele (Dembele came on tonight and nothing changed) but playing centrally meant it' was a bit harder to take risks, he got picked off once trying to play a ball through the layers and it set off a counter, and as much as we need tempo and incision on bus park games, we can't be too reckless either and end up getting countered either. It's a balance, and while I don't particularly like Winks being given too much responsibility because he's not the best without the ball and his natural game is to provide some tempo not the insurance, I still think we were better for having him out there than someone like Dier every time.

I would much rather see Winks played as an 8 (with someone like Wanyama) in a CM2 or CM3, than as a 6.

 

[allpaths]

No he didn't. He misplaced a couple of passes, at least he did that attempting to make them, Sissoko doesn't even attempt a remotely tricky or incisive pass.

Sissoko was worse then just being invisible, he was actively getting in the way and messing up the fluidity of our attacking moves. Think the moment Son nicked the ball off of him pretty much sums up his whole Tottenham career.