Ratings vs Sheriff

[Coyboy]

It's not really worth a big debate. I haven't said Lamela was great, he wasn't. But Lennon wasn't either, and certainly not 233% better than Lamela. And I would have preferred Lamela left on.

No but when you come out with comments like "did ok" or mitigate an indifferent performance but then once again criticise Lennon for being "so bad", it makes you look like you have favourites and are not objective.
Which of course is untrue.
It's irrelevant that someone else gave them such different marks. My point was that they at the very most performed equally as well/badly and if anything given Lennon came close to scoring twice, he was better. Chadli looked lively enough for the time he was on but as with most of the season not amazing, and Lamela unfortunately hasn't got going at all yet bar a couple of nice assists at Cardiff and home to Tromso.

 

[mpickard2087]

According to who scored Eriksen made 85 passes with an 87% success rate (74 successful ?). Suggests he was pretty active and certainly not MIA.

Holtby made ten more passes in 17 minutes than Defoe did in 93.

Surprises me that he saw so much ball (though we did have an awful lot of it as per), to my eyes he just seemed to be playing a bit within himself.

Defoe just doesn't surprise me... and AVB reckons that was a great performance from him.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No but when you come out with comments like "did ok" or mitigate an indifferent performance but then once again criticise Lennon for being "so bad", it makes you look like you have favourites and are not objective.
Which of course is untrue.

Are you chastising everyone who criticised Lennon or just me ? Only it makes you look like you are stalking me if you don't.
Which of course is untrue.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Surprises me that he saw so much ball (though we did have an awful lot of it as per), to my eyes he just seemed to be playing a bit within himself.

Defoe just doesn't surprise me... and AVB reckons that was a great performance from him.

I think it was just another one of those games, we've had three on the spin, where teams have really concentrated on running their arses off, usually in the middle 3rd/deep and our creatives have struggled to find time and space, but has to be said, Eriksen still found 3/4 killer balls, pretty good on a night like that IMO.

 

[Spurger King]

Holtby made ten more passes in 17 minutes than Defoe did in 93.

What? A midfielder making significantly more passes than a striker? Dat crazy talk.

Defoe isn't there to link up play, to drop deep, or to lay the ball off or forward. His role is to be the one the ball is passed to. Unlike Soldado and Ade, he's a one track minded striker so it's hardly surprising that a midfielder is going to out-pass him...even if he's only on for 17 minutes.

 

[sloth]

What? A midfielder making significantly more passes than a striker? Dat crazy talk.

Defoe isn't there to link up play, to drop deep, or to lay the ball off or forward. His role is to be the one the ball is passed to. Unlike Soldado and Ade, he's a one track minded striker so it's hardly surprising that a midfielder is going to out-pass him...even if he's only on for 17 minutes.

There are many strikers of Defoe's ilk in Europe's top leagues, but few if any who contribute less when they're not scoring. I think when I looked at it turned out he makes almost the fewest passes per game of any striker in the top leagues...

 

[mpickard2087]

And Defoe last night spent a lot of time dropping off the front in a misguided attempt to get involved. A number of times I was left wondering why Defoe was on the halfway line, he just simply hasn't got it in him to play that way.

So when he isn't right up top for a tap in, and hasn't got the nous to come and link up play, he is effectively useless.

 

[Coyboy]

Are you chastising everyone who criticised Lennon or just me ? Only it makes you look like you are stalking me if you don't.
Which of course is untrue.

Can you keep to the issues? What did Chadli/ Lamela do that made them better than Lennon? Why is Lamela excused because of the "type" of game but AL isn't?

 

[danielneeds]

Lamela was dog-shit poor last night, and anyone who says otherwise is just deluding themselves. Thankfully, the talent is there, he just needs time, and an intelligent coach. Thankfully we can give him both.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Can you keep to the issues? What did Chadli/ Lamela do that made them better than Lennon? Why is Lamela excused because of the "type" of game but AL isn't?

I guess because I applied perspective. Lamela is a 21yo settling in to a new team in a new country yet still managed to see as much of the game as Lennon, who on top of being insipid also wasted the games best chance with an insipid little back pass.

Maybe when Lamela has been insipid for five years and we sign 21yo who is a acclimatising I might call Lamela bad and the 21 ok when in fact their performances are pretty similar. And the evolutionary cycle of football critique wrongedness will have righted itself.

Try not to lose too much sleep over it.

 

[Spurs1960]

Lloris 7
Naughton 4
Chiriches 5
Vertonghen 6
Fryers 6
Dawson 7
Sandro 6
Dembele 6
Lennon 6
Eriksen 6
Lamela 5
Defoe 5
Chadli 6
Holtby 6

Defence was cut to shreads simply playing the ball behind an out of position Chiriches which stopped when Dawson replaced him. Naughton didn't help Chiriches one little bit, just made matters worse, he was awful. They would have scored had it not been changed.

Lloris did everything that was asked of him, shame Fryers got injured, going forward we looked pedestrian playing as if we were convinced 1-0 was good enough.

Defoe had no service so no attacking player can get anything other than an average 6.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Lloris 7
Naughton 4
Chiriches 5
Vertonghen 6
Fryers 6
Dawson 7
Sandro 6
Dembele 6
Lennon 6
Eriksen 6
Lamela 5
Defoe 5
Chadli 6
Holtby 6

Defence was cut to shreads simply playing the ball behind an out of position Chiriches which stopped when Dawson replaced him. Naughton didn't help Chiriches one little bit, just made matters worse, he was awful. They would have scored had it not been changed.

Lloris did everything that was asked of him, shame Fryers got injured, going forward we looked pedestrian playing as if we were convinced 1-0 was good enough.

Defoe had no service so no attacking player can get anything other than an average 6.

They had their best chance - when the guy went clean through the middle - when Dawson was on the pitch. Seems his omnipresence was fallible after all eh ?

 

[Spurs1960]

They had their best chance - when the guy went clean through the middle - when Dawson was on the pitch. Seems his omnipresence was fallible after all eh ?

I'm well aware of your scatoma thanks. Once in a game is far better than 4 times in 20 minutes in my view.

 

[Spurs1960]

They had their best chance - when the guy went clean through the middle - when Dawson was on the pitch. Seems his omnipresence was fallible after all eh ?

There best chance was a one-on-one before Dawson came on in my view.

 

[jezz]

Lloris 7
Naughton 4
Chiriches 5
Vertonghen 6
Fryers 6
Dawson 7
Sandro 6
Dembele 6
Lennon 6
Eriksen 6
Lamela 5
Defoe 5
Chadli 6
Holtby 6

Defence was cut to shreads simply playing the ball behind an out of position Chiriches which stopped when Dawson replaced him. Naughton didn't help Chiriches one little bit, just made matters worse, he was awful. They would have scored had it not been changed.

Lloris did everything that was asked of him, shame Fryers got injured, going forward we looked pedestrian playing as if we were convinced 1-0 was good enough.

Defoe had no service so no attacking player can get anything other than an average 6.

im stunned, you must live in some alternate reality.
Which game did you watch?
Dawson man of the match?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm well aware of your scatoma thanks. Once in a game is far better than 4 times in 20 minutes in my view.

There best chance was a one-on-one before Dawson came on in my view.

I think Dawson was not better or worse defensively than Chiriches last night, but to say Dawson came on and problems stopped because of this is factually wrong.

Before Dawson

14 min (player through left, ball played past Chiriches who recovers to save) I am convinced this was offside. AVB complained as well.

31 min (Chiriches actually cuts out through ball but deflects to their guy at acute angle edge of box)


After

37 min (quick free kick played to man Dawson is marking then played through his legs ends up with chance on pen spot)

58 min (played into space corner of box results in ping pong in box)
70 min (guy gets past Dawson - results in shot Dawson gets block on)
80 min (player gets in behind Dawson, clean through down centre 1v1 best chance of the game IMO)

There were only two real 1v1 created by them. One with and one without Dawson. Chiriches made amends for one of them. No one did the second.

Seems scotoma is rife.

 

[Spurs 1961]

Lloris showed what pure class he is. Without him I think we would have probably lost the game. His speed in decision making is brilliant, he just dominates his area. Best buy by far since AVB has been with us

 

[Snarfalicious]

Lloris showed what pure class he is. Without him I think we would have probably lost the game. His speed in decision making is brilliant, he just dominates his area. Best buy by far since AVB has been with us

He truly is incredible. So many times I see a pass played in behind and basically go all "OH SHIT" in my head and then his shiny green/orange ass is popping up to gather it. It's crazy.

 

[Spursidol]

I guess because I applied perspective. Lamela is a 21yo settling in to a new team in a new country yet still managed to see as much of the game as Lennon, who on top of being insipid also wasted the games best chance with an insipid little back pass.

Maybe when Lamela has been insipid for five years and we sign 21yo who is a acclimatising I might call Lamela bad and the 21 ok when in fact their performances are pretty similar. And the evolutionary cycle of football critique wrongedness will have righted itself.

Try not to lose too much sleep over it.

I'm all for giving Lamela time to settle to PL play, and probably the next outing for him will be the Hull cup game playing against Hull's PL players but not in a PL match. Hopefully thereafter he will gradually aclimatise so that by (say) Christmas AVB will think he is up to playing in the PL.

At the same time, lets also cut Lennon slack on his first game back, where he improved throughout the game - which is one of the reasons why AVB subbed Lamela rather than Lennon.

I'd agree that after the TW influx of attacking midfielders, Lennon has a way to go to compete for a first team place , but in this game neither Lamela nor Lennon put in anything other than an a pretty unispiring performance , alkthough I'd mark Lennon slightly higher than :Lamela who with Naughton probably had the poorest performance of the Spurs players, which incidentally is a similar analysis as the combined SO board ratings (ie its not a few vociferous posters who seem to unreservadly worship Lamela whatever his performances)

 

[Spursidol]

Lloris showed what pure class he is. Without him I think we would have probably lost the game. His speed in decision making is brilliant, he just dominates his area. Best buy by far since AVB has been with us

Certainly an excellent buy and its difficult to see better goalkeepers around, although sometimes he seems to take too many risks in coming out. But I think I prefer that to Freida not moving off the line which is the opposite extreme.