Match Ratings Ratings vs West Ham

[guiltyparty]

Haha, you're nuts. The guy is barely 21 and smashing up the league. He can be anything he wants.

Again with the straw men, I don't dispute any of that.

 

[Spurger King]

Great by both of them. Thing with Kane though, is his unbelievable development as a striker, and also support forward when he needs to be one. That weight and the pace of the ball from Alli was one thing, but for Kane to read all of that, and in an instant, adjust to make his choice of header, get his angles right in terms of seeing the goal and placing his header bang into the side netting was something else!

Fella knows his space, everything about where the ball is and its movement, and he uses all of that to elude defensive cover, and is always aware of where the goal is, its dimensions, and how to get it into it! Sounds a bit basic and primitive, but he does that thing time and again!

You're American aren't you? Only asking as you probably wouldn't have watched the game on Sky.

I'm really not a fan of Sky's pundits, but they had Teddy talking about the skill required for Kane's second goal, which echoes your post. Essentially Kane instinctively understood that the ball was spinning towards him, and in a split second made the decision to strike over the ball to keep it down. Looked like a tap in, but with the way the ball was moving most players would send it over the bar.

He's incredibly gifted.

 

[elDiablo]

Kane is the complete footballer. He has the intelligence to play anywhere on the pitch imo.

Really hope he does the business for England as well as that could be the only thing that knocks him....though I doubt it.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Only BC could find a way to criticise Alli/DIer/Walker for giving the "wrong type" of assist.

As a matter of fact, I was surprised Dele did not play it on the deck. I don't think it was an easy finish.

 

[Ionman34]

It was testament to Kane that he turned the delivery into a goal because it was fizzed at him head height whereas playing the percentages it was surely easier to pull it back ground level - that's essentially what myself and others are alluding to.

The stats will say two assists but you judge that game for 90mins and the good opportunities squandered by Alli either by looking so bloody uncomfortable on the ball, stupid flicks or simply being careless running into defenders.

This is a player who's status is now recognised worldwide so scrutiny has to match. He is a bona-fide talent with a knack of getting on the end of things but some of what he's serving in the heat of battle is sub-standard garbage.

Kind of like a youngster who is years off his best form, is still learning the game and, like most youngsters, will make a lot of mistakes in the early stages of his career?

 

[Spurger King]

Kane is the complete footballer. He has the intelligence to play anywhere on the pitch imo.

Really hope he does the business for England as well as that could be the only thing that knocks him....though I doubt it.

I think he'll do at least as well as Rooney. Hopefully he can go one better and score regularly in tournaments.

 

[Phomesy]

As a matter of fact, I was surprised Dele did not play it on the deck. I don't think it was an easy finish.

It was good enough for Teddy so it should probably be good enough for any of us who haven't scored a bazillion goals over a 40 year career!

 

[danielneeds]

Not sure what BS I'm spouting? Are you saying Alli doesn't do the things I say? Should Alli be undroppable? If academy players don't perform, don't press, waste the ball, such as Townsend, I'll say the same about them, but I like the positives that Alli brings much more than Townsend which is why I never wanted Townsend in the side, and said so, but understand completely how Alli is playing most weeks.

I understand the payoff with Alli, but it doesn't mean it's always acceptable and that he can't be benched occasionally to kick him up the arse. And it's not just the almost constant, careless waste, it's the lazy pressing he does a lot as well.

I really don't see him as any lazier than any of our team at the moment - there is no consistent pressing from Kane, Eriksen, Alli or Son at the front. But you like to pick on Alli because you have been from the start.

 

[Deleted member 27855]

Alli is a fucking starter and anyone who wants him dropped is fucking mad. Yeah he fucks around sometimes but when u need a goal who better are we gonna bring on?

I don’t want to drop him immediately. I think he needs some time. However if he doesn’t improve over the next few matches I think he needs to get dropped in favor of Son. Son deserves it. He’s been very good when he’s been on this year. Alli been poor since the start of the season. It’s the types of mistakes he’s making that bother me rather than the mistakes themselves. He constantly looks to take on opponents and loses possession when a simple pass would suffice. He looks to score world class goals when a simple tap in would do. He’s single handedly destroying attack after attack all by himself with his selfish play. His head looks to be firmly planted up his own ass and I think a benching would do him wonders. Nobody is suggesting we drop him permanently. Just till he gets the proper prospective.

 

[Phomesy]

Not sure what BS I'm spouting? Are you saying Alli doesn't do the things I say? Should Alli be undroppable? If academy players don't perform, don't press, waste the ball, such as Townsend, I'll say the same about them, but I like the positives that Alli brings much more than Townsend which is why I never wanted Townsend in the side, and said so, but understand completely how Alli is playing most weeks.

I understand the payoff with Alli, but it doesn't mean it's always acceptable and that he can't be benched occasionally to kick him up the arse. And it's not just the almost constant, careless waste, it's the lazy pressing he does a lot as well.

The BS is that he was lazy today. He wasn't. He bumbled and lost possession and couldn't get a touch for the first 20 minutes - but he kept on going. He ran and ran and moved and moved and never stopped showing for it despite the mistakes and worked his arse off to the very end despite being exhausted.

This is what's driving me nuts. I agree with all your assessments of Alli. I understand your frustrations and share them. BUT TODAY HE DID HIS JOB. Under difficult circumstances and being slightly out of form he still created or contributed to numerous goal scoring opportunities. And ran his guts out defensively - being a great outlet on the counter.

I can't understand why people are getting stuck in. I thought it was one of his most mature performances for us precisely because he's clearly lacking a little form and touch but kept plugging away.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

It was good enough for Teddy so it should probably be good enough for any of us who haven't scored a bazillion goals over a 40 year career!

Teddy ain't much of a pundit. And the way that Redknapp kept wanking him off was excruciating.

 

[ohtottenham!]

You're American aren't you? Only asking as you probably wouldn't have watched the game on Sky.

I'm really not a fan of Sky's pundits, but they had Teddy talking about the skill required for Kane's second goal, which echoes your post. Essentially Kane instinctively understood that the ball was spinning towards him, and in a split second made the decision to strike over the ball to keep it down. Looked like a tap in, but with the way the ball was moving most players would send it over the bar.

He's incredibly gifted.

Dual citizenship. US the last 20 years. Grew up in east and then west London watching Spurs from the late sixties to the mid-eighties, home and away, till I moved out of the country. Re Kane, no we didn't see Teddy's assessment, but I agree with it. Most importantly imo, he's not just incredibly gifted, but he has the drive to always be learning, developing, wanting to get better. That's something that just sets him apart.

 

[whitesocks]

Audere est Fucker

That was a real curates egg of a game, selection wise, tactically and in how it unfolded.

Our palpable problems remain in central midfield. West Ham are a mess, and though we are clearly the more talented and better coached side, that was a game that never felt very convincing from us, we were edging the game but it never felt rhythmic or very cohesive. And that's largely because of the selections and application Poch is making.

I remain very unimpressed with Poch's preference for Sissoko in one of the pivoting "8" roles ahead of the infinitely more capable Winks. I just don't get it. The only real advantage Sissoko holds over Winks is his physique. But Sissoko's isn't even that great defensively, he much prefers going forwards, but he lacks the touch, technique or finesse to be very effective going forwards. He's effectively a rhinoceros in a tutu. And I know some people might pay to watch that, I'm just not one of them.

The other compromise is dropping Eriksen into the other "8" role on the other side of Dier. With Alli's fucking bumbling, Kane's kind of robust but erratic hold up play, there is now no-one to provide the composure in the final third, and to be honest, Eriksen is beacon of composure in a sea of bumbly chaos a lot of the time, but I don't think he's great at doing some of the nitty gritty that a deeper CM sometimes needs when things get tetchy and inches are being scrapped over in the middle third.

So what are getting is all a bit Heath Robinson. We don't seem to have full control of games, in terms of tempo or tone, from the middle of the pitch. We are also sacrificing composure and craft in the final third. We are exposing our defenders a little more, particularly our full backs, and Aurier was caught with his pants down a few times today, and we were very fortunate not to concede at 0-0 a couple of times.

The decision not to give Onomah games last year, minutes at the end of games last year, games in midfield in pre season and then pack him off on loan is looking increasingly short sighted now we have Wanyama unavailable and Dembele with the inevitable chronic problems.

The other major issue is the continual selection of a woefully erratic Alli. This isn't a new thing, but instead of improving, it's getting worse. And it's not like people can claim that he gets the nod because, despite all the lazy, careless crap he produces, because Son has proven equally productive. Now I'm not saying Son should be automatically ahead of Alli in the pecking order, but if Poch was the meritocratic altruist we are led to believe, then Alli's performances deserve for him to have been dropped for Son before now. And not doing so is not doing either player any favours. Son must be thinking "what's the point, if he can be this shit, and still get picked ahead of me every week". And Alli must be thinking he can keep producing this shite because he gets picked anyway. Some of his wastage today was scandalous. And it could be mitigated if, like Lamela say, even on an erratic day, he charged around tenaciously working for the team, but his pressing is lethargic and hap hazard much of the time. The boy needs a really good kick up the arse.

I understand why Poch went for Aurier today, but I really don't understand all the praise he was getting in the match thread. It was a typical case of people either making up their minds already, without really having seen enough of him to form a good opinion, or people getting seduced by a player who's tenacious and has a trick or two. Don't misunderstand me, there's more to Aurier than that, he's got some good all round qualities, but I said before, he's also got some issues, he's not perfect, and he definitely wasn't great today. He did a couple of good things. But he also did some poor things, got caught out a few times, sold himself for the Arnautovic chance, nearly gave away a couple of pens, and didn't actually produce much going forward. There are better things to come from him, he is a competitor with ability, but don't pretend you are seeing something great before you do.

On the plus side, I do like this system that Poch has adopted, it's just a shame that he's not quite as brave or meritocratic as he could be.

Audere est Fucker Poch, Andere est Fucker...

Individual

Lloris - OK

Aurier - A real mixed bag. Got caught out of position several times, dived in recklessly a few times, allowing Arnautovic to get away, nearly gave away two pens, but also showed he is an energetic, tenacious competitor, with decent technique.

TA/DS/JV - Our three musketeers were all pretty decent, Vertonghen continues to be the star off the three, playing a hand in the second goal.

Davies - Another decent game and again, nice to see him getting into to forward areas.

Dier - Another game where there were times when he was left a bit exposed by having Sissoko and Eriksen either side, and he's not the dynamic hunter gatherer that Wanyama is in those circumstances, he tends to just take 3 steps backwards and dig a hole. He was Ok, but he'd be a lot better with a couple of proper cm/8's either side.

Sissoko - I don't get the praise some were giving him. OK, he didn't stink the place out, but is that really good enough for a team at our level ? His technique is awful, he's poor under pressure in cm areas, he doesn't see enough of the ball, doesn't want it under pressure, which along with Dier just gives us very poor options when playing out. Going forward he lacks any finesse (and one stage he overhit a pass by about 40 yards) or vision, and at best is lucky if he just manages to deliver the obvious.

Eriksen - This was probably the worst game he's had for a while, but still managed to contribute some important stuff, including a nice finish, a lovely ball for the first and a clever part in the second. I thought there were times his lack of tenacity compromised us in midfield, and we really missed having him in the final third more. Didn't see anywhere near as much ball as he usually does. How the fuck he gets subbed before Alli is anyone's guess though.

Alli - Look, we all know what the kid's MO is by now. Being able to produce an assist or a goal is negated when your laziness with and without the ball is also helping the opposition make goals and assists. It cost us against Chelsea and it nearly cost us several times today, great positions spunked away through poor touch or poor decisions. I even thought his easy pass for Kane's goal was nearly overhit. And he's got to work harder without the ball on days like this to at least mitigate. Needs to be dropped next couple of games, in Son we have a player who can also produce "moments" at a similar rate, and though is also erratic, he's at least a bit busier about it.

Kane - Both his chances looked easier than they were IMO, Alli's was fired in ahead of him and the keeper rebound goal required composure and technique, he took both superbly. Unlucky with his free kick. On the down side, he was offside too often and there were a couple of times he was a bit greedy.

Is your MOTM Heath Robinson or Onomah then?
It is an away win in a derby, so someone must have been doing something right.

I gave it to Eriksen as I thought he was better than either Kane or Dele - our attack worked fine with 3 goals.
Defensively we have 5 CBs, all of a very high standard and yet let in 2 and another day maybe a penalty too - that is where the problem is if anywhere.
I think it worked well with Alderweireld the central CB last season, plus he has a good understanding with Vertonghen, Why split them? - just play Sanchez as the RCB of the 3.
Oh, and keep Sissoko well out of our box. He scares me.

 

[Phomesy]

Teddy ain't much of a pundit. And the way that Redknapp kept wanking him off was excruciating.

yeah but Teddy was a hell of a striker and he thought Alli's pass was perfect. I'll go with his assessment on this one...

 

[fortworthspur]

jesus christ people are debating the quality of the assist. unbelievable. Alli had a hand in two goals and people feels he's wasting too many chances. how many fucking goals do you guys want a game - 5? 6?

 

[Spurger King]

Dual citizenship. US the last 20 years. Grew up in east and then west London watching Spurs from the late sixties to the mid-eighties, home and away, till I moved out of the country. Re Kane, no we didn't see Teddy's assessment, but I agree with it. Most importantly imo, he's not just incredibly gifted, but he has the drive to always be learning, developing, wanting to get better. That's something that just sets him apart.

He's a Godsend. The scary thing is that he will only get better as he gets older. Doesn't rely on pace, so as he becomes more experienced he'll improve his positioning and general reading of the game.

Look at players like Forlan. He was a good forward for most of his career, but peaked when he was about 34-35 when he became a class act. Kane's already better than Forlan ever was, and he's only just getting started.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

yeah but Teddy was a hell of a striker and he thought Alli's pass was perfect. I'll go with his assessment on this one...

Probably couldn't see it properly, what with Redknapp's head bobbing up and down on his shaft.

 

[Tottenham_God]

Can we please take a moment to revel in Llorentes sexiness?

Also we neeeeeed Winks starting. Pleaseeee poch please soon.

 

[Streetspur77]

lol this is getting ridiculous now.

It was a good cross, a lot of pace on it but it needed that the make sure it got past the first defender. Kane used that pace and just flicked it into the corner, great goal all round why can't people just accept that, be happy and move on?

I'm starting to think all the alli criticism is something to do with all the agent rumours and maybe negative body language rather than his actual performances

 

[John48]

More than anything we need someone else firing as well as Kane if we're to achieve anything.

Ideally Dele, but maybe Son is the man.