Saido Berahino

[thinktank]

And those teams rarely look as good with those non similar players, not so well suited to the system play, do they. Liverpool looked fucking awful with Benteke on Sunday. Mourinho would rather play no striker at all than Remy.

We already have N'Jie who the last few times he's been brought on has played off the shoulder as a CF in a very similar role to Berahino when he plays up front (he was wrongly given offside on Saturday when clean through), and he potentially offers more as a wide forward. And what about Son ? If we are going to have a "different" type we've already spent 20m on him (and 10m on N'Jie). And we have players like Harrison coming through, who IMO has the potential to be at least as good as Berahino.

I really hope we don't waste money on a player who doesn't fit the system as a CF, isn't better as a wide forward than anyone we already have there.

Absolutely.

 

[Mr Pink]

Didn't he also want Dani Osvaldo at Southamton?

And Fazio?

Are you saying because's he got some wrong that he shouldn't be trusted whatsoever? Ferguson got some wrong at United didn't he? All managers do now and again.

And Fazio was probably not a first choice either.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Are you saying because's he got some wrong that he shouldn't be trusted whatsoever? Ferguson got some wrong at United didn't he? All managers do now and again.

And Fazio was probably not a first choice either.

I'm saying just because the manager wants him, doesn't make it the best choice.

I just don't get they way you and others are thinking with Berahino. We play a very systematic way, it is heavily dependent on having a hard working, robust, fulcrum who can not only rough up CB's, but can lead the press without the ball, drop deep and wide to receive it, hold it and bring the others like the three AM's into play as well.

What if Kane got a serious injury and was out for 3 months ? Berahino isn't going to do that job, he's absolutely nothing like Kane and his all round game is much more limited. So what are we going to do ? You think Poch is going to go back to the drawing board and turn us into a deep lying, counter attacking team like West Brom or Palace ? Berahino's game is not suited at all to playing in a team that spends 80% of the team facing the bus park. It's why signing Bent was idiotic when we did, or re-signing Defoe. Yes, those guys will bag you 12-15 goals in a goad year but they don't make you a better team, they detract from the overall team dynamic.

It doesn't matter if Chadli or Son or even Alli aren't quite as prolific as Kane, they are all capable of scoring - as they have all proven - but they will all also fit the remit better, allow us to keep the system, and that is more important IMO.

Players like Bent, Defoe, Berahino have their uses, but not for a team like us, especially not this team which is more system orientated than any we've had for decades.

 

[Trix]

I'm saying just because the manager wants him, doesn't make it the best choice.

I just don't get they way you and others are thinking with Berahino. We play a very systematic way, it is heavily dependent on having a hard working, robust, fulcrum who can not only rough up CB's, but can lead the press without the ball, drop deep and wide to receive it, hold it and bring the others like the three AM's into play as well.

What if Kane got a serious injury and was out for 3 months ? Berahino isn't going to do that job, he's absolutely nothing like Kane and his all round game is much more limited. So what are we going to do ? You think Poch is going to go back to the drawing board and turn us into a deep lying, counter attacking team like West Brom or Palace ? Berahino's game is not suited at all to playing in a team that spends 80% of the team facing the bus park. It's why signing Bent was idiotic when we did, or re-signing Defoe. Yes, those guys will bag you 12-15 goals in a goad year but they don't make you a better team, they detract from the overall team dynamic.

It doesn't matter if Chadli or Son or even Alli aren't quite as prolific as Kane, they are all capable of scoring - as they have all proven - but they will all also fit the remit better, allow us to keep the system, and that is more important IMO.

Players like Bent, Defoe, Berahino have their uses, but not for a team like us, especially not this team which is more system orientated than any we've had for decades.

I'm just very much of the belief that the manager has to get the players he wants if it is possible. He knows what he is trying to achieve and which players he believes would best make that a reality. Whether you or I can understand it is irrelevant. No point in appointing a manager that has a clear plan of what he wants to do if you don't back him.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm just very much of the belief that the manager has to get the players he wants if it is possible. He knows what he is trying to achieve and which players he believes would best make that a reality. Whether you or I can understand it is irrelevant. No point in appointing a manager that has a clear plan of what he wants to do if you don't back him.

I know you are no a mug and understand the workings of football so you know there are many reasons why this is a over simplistic and outmoded view of how football needs to and in most cases in Europe works.

The reality is that no manager - in some cases even those at uber clubs, but especially the rest of us - will usually be able to sign their no.1 choice. Therefore a club requires a multi faceted approach. Profiling, scouting, analytics, wish lists, etc.

Even if they can, the the average jobspan of a manager is less than the average contract to given to the vast majority of players. So the club has to make sure that the player will fit the clubs ethos, not just the head coache's wish list.


This is what I don't understand about Berahino. As a wide forward or AM no-one is trying to pretend he's much good. We have better options in our squad already (and not just in our first team). And as a striker he clearly does not fit the profile of the system we play. Now if he was a kid we were picking up for 5-8 mil as a prospect with a view to developing (like N'Jie) then you'd say OK, there's some potential there, but at the ludicrous valuations - or even if the price has dropped to 15-18m - I think it's utter madness to buy a player that if Kane was out long term wouldn't fit the profile and system we play. So we are paying an awful lot of money for a player who will not be automatic first choice starter as a CF, and offers less or at best no more than Son, Lamela, Chadli, N'Jie, Pritchard, Onomah, Alli, Oduwa as an AM and if we did need him to play CF for longer than a game or two would drastically altar the dynamics of the system.

Someone in the acquisition process must be able to see this surely ?

 

[Trix]

I know you are no a mug and understand the workings of football so you know there are many reasons why this is a over simplistic and outmoded view of how football needs to and in most cases in Europe works.

The reality is that no manager - in some cases even those at uber clubs, but especially the rest of us - will usually be able to sign their no.1 choice. Therefore a club requires a multi faceted approach. Profiling, scouting, analytics, wish lists, etc.

Even if they can, the the average jobspan of a manager is less than the average contract to given to the vast majority of players. So the club has to make sure that the player will fit the clubs ethos, not just the head coache's wish list.


This is what I don't understand about Berahino. As a wide forward or AM no-one is trying to pretend he's much good. We have better options in our squad already (and not just in our first team). And as a striker he clearly does not fit the profile of the system we play. Now if he was a kid we were picking up for 5-8 mil as a prospect with a view to developing (like N'Jie) then you'd say OK, there's some potential there, but at the ludicrous valuations - or even if the price has dropped to 15-18m - I think it's utter madness to buy a player that if Kane was out long term wouldn't fit the profile and system we play. So we are paying an awful lot of money for a player who will not be automatic first choice starter as a CF, and offers less or at best no more than Son, Lamela, Chadli, N'Jie, Pritchard, Onomah, Alli, Oduwa as an AM and if we did need him to play CF for longer than a game or two would drastically altar the dynamics of the system.

Someone in the acquisition process must be able to see this surely ?

I have heard three names mentioned mate, and none of them are Harry Kane clones(if you know what I mean).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I have heard three names mentioned mate, and none of them are Harry Kane clones(if you know what I mean).

That's not making me feel better.

 

[Mr Pink]

I'm saying just because the manager wants him, doesn't make it the best choice.

I just don't get they way you and others are thinking with Berahino. We play a very systematic way, it is heavily dependent on having a hard working, robust, fulcrum who can not only rough up CB's, but can lead the press without the ball, drop deep and wide to receive it, hold it and bring the others like the three AM's into play as well.

What if Kane got a serious injury and was out for 3 months ? Berahino isn't going to do that job, he's absolutely nothing like Kane and his all round game is much more limited. So what are we going to do ? You think Poch is going to go back to the drawing board and turn us into a deep lying, counter attacking team like West Brom or Palace ? Berahino's game is not suited at all to playing in a team that spends 80% of the team facing the bus park. It's why signing Bent was idiotic when we did, or re-signing Defoe. Yes, those guys will bag you 12-15 goals in a goad year but they don't make you a better team, they detract from the overall team dynamic.

It doesn't matter if Chadli or Son or even Alli aren't quite as prolific as Kane, they are all capable of scoring - as they have all proven - but they will all also fit the remit better, allow us to keep the system, and that is more important IMO.

Players like Bent, Defoe, Berahino have their uses, but not for a team like us, especially not this team which is more system orientated than any we've had for decades.

I agree he's not similar to Kane at all, that much is obvious. However surely its reasonable to assume that Pochettino is all too aware of the difference, and the fact he remains interested suggests that he's maybe thinking about something which isn't obvious or apparent to us yet either.

The bottom line is we just have to wait and see how things pan out and the manager clearly will have his reasoning. I didn't think there was a hope in hell that Dier could play in midfield back around August time, I'm now convinced he can.

 

[IGSpur]

My only real concern about Berahino is still paying a big price for someone who may not get much game time.

I think he has more than enough ability to play CF. I understand the risk of buying players from lesser clubs means they have made their name in a system e.g. the opposition having more space to run in behind and not pressing, but for me I think Berahino is good enough to play the lone role for us. His touch is decent he can play people in and is strong enough to hold up a ball. I have seen him hold up a ball, not too long ago, actually even at the start of last season, actually even when he started getting PL games, people were saying Kane couldn't hold up a ball. Even though I thought he could he has definitely improved more.

I believe players can be coached to fit a system and if they are eager enough and skilled enough it will work. It may not be their natural style but young players can adapt. It's why I though Milos could be coached to change his style. Berahino I think is more than good enough to be a backup striker, can do the basics well and still offers something different. Provided he is willing to run his heart out which only people close to Berahino and coaches will know about then I think he will be fine alternative to Kane. Also he has played uptop for Pulis and Pulis is known for route 1 football, if you can't hold a ball up top for Pulis then you're out of there.

 

[Lou3000]

What if Kane got a serious injury and was out for 3 months ?

I'm not sure there is an answer to this question. Other than Liverpool who seem to have 12 top tier strikers on their payroll, I can't think of any other team that would be content with playing with their backup option. It just isn't realistic to have 2 Harry Kanes. United barely have 1 out-and-out striker anymore. City are shit without Aguero. Arsenal can't even decide if Giroud is their 1 striker. And Chelsea doesn't trust Remy to carry Costa's bib for him.

I think that Pochettino's plan for a life without Kane is not simply to plug in Chadli, Son or a yet-unsigned-Kane-2.0. It would require a slightly different attacking look, and maybe that look includes a versatile pacey attacker like Berahino. If you consider our other summer target was Ings rather than someone like Austin, it makes my alternate-look-attack seem more plausible.

 

[glospur]

I'm saying just because the manager wants him, doesn't make it the best choice.

I just don't get they way you and others are thinking with Berahino. We play a very systematic way, it is heavily dependent on having a hard working, robust, fulcrum who can not only rough up CB's, but can lead the press without the ball, drop deep and wide to receive it, hold it and bring the others like the three AM's into play as well.

What if Kane got a serious injury and was out for 3 months ? Berahino isn't going to do that job, he's absolutely nothing like Kane and his all round game is much more limited. So what are we going to do ? You think Poch is going to go back to the drawing board and turn us into a deep lying, counter attacking team like West Brom or Palace ? Berahino's game is not suited at all to playing in a team that spends 80% of the team facing the bus park. It's why signing Bent was idiotic when we did, or re-signing Defoe. Yes, those guys will bag you 12-15 goals in a goad year but they don't make you a better team, they detract from the overall team dynamic.

It doesn't matter if Chadli or Son or even Alli aren't quite as prolific as Kane, they are all capable of scoring - as they have all proven - but they will all also fit the remit better, allow us to keep the system, and that is more important IMO.

Players like Bent, Defoe, Berahino have their uses, but not for a team like us, especially not this team which is more system orientated than any we've had for decades.

I think the manager has a far better idea of how a player will fit into his system that you do. He's said in the past he wants him and ITK indicates that this is still the case. Another classic case of B-C pretentiousness where you think you know more about the managers own players and the way he wants to play than Pochettino himself does,

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think the manager has a far better idea of how a player will fit into his system that you do. He's said in the past he wants him and ITK indicates that this is still the case. Another classic case of B-C pretentiousness where you think you know more about the managers own players and the way he wants to play than Pochettino himself does,

It's not pretentiousness to pretend to know how Pochittino wants to play. It's not pretentiousness to watch just about every game of ours he's managed and formulate an opinion of who suits that system and who doesn't.

Just like it wasn't pretentious to say the same when we bought players like Bent.

You might not agree with my opinion but that doesn't make it pretentious.

 

[Larryjanta]

It's not pretentiousness to pretend to know how Pochittino wants to play. It's not pretentiousness to watch just about every game of ours he's managed and formulate an opinion of who suits that system and who doesn't.

Just like it wasn't pretentious to say the same when we bought players like Bent.

You might not agree with my opinion but that doesn't make it pretentious.

To be fair, you do talk as if you have some direct line to the footballing gods that only you see ;-) I can see why it would be grating as you write as if your view if the only logical conclusion and everyone else is a simpleton - doesn't bother me a bit, however.

Onto to Berahino, I agree with you that this is a multifaceted approach to signing a player and, really, Berahino ticks all the Spurs boxes you can name; manager likes him & wants him, young, English, considerable upside, unsettled, not long on contract. Poch wants him now and Levy wants him for the future. Job done.

We've not really signed a lemon since Poch arrived (Fazio excepted) and he's made the right call on every player we've sold.

Poch might also see something in Berahino not currently being used (which he seems to have done with people like Dier, Mason and Kane) so I wouldn't put as much stock as you in what we see of Berahino now as much as what he could be playing with better players and a manager with a proven record of improving young talent.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Onto to Berahino, I agree with you that this is a multifaceted approach to signing a player and, really, Berahino ticks all the Spurs boxes you can name; manager likes him & wants him, young, English, considerable upside, unsettled, not long on contract. Poch wants him now and Levy wants him for the future. Job done.

You say he "ticks all the boxes" then don't manage to list a single "footballing" box that he ticks. According to you, being young, English and unsettled are "ticked boxes".

The football god voice in my head tells me they don't happen to be boxes we desperately need ticking.

 

[Larryjanta]

You say he "ticks all the boxes" then don't manage to list a single "footballing" box that he ticks. According to you, being young, English and unsettled are "ticked boxes".

The football god voice in my head tells me they don't happen to be boxes we desperately need ticking.

There you go again, you're very prickly.

I wasn't intending on listing attributes, I was simply listing the reasons, attributes aside, we sign players. Poch is the judge of his attributes, hence why I said "Poch wants him" - it's a pretty simple concept, the scouts have a profile of the player they want to sign based on a list of attributes and then go and look for them.

My opinion, not that it counts for much as I'm not a scout, is that he is quick, good finisher, works hard, already has experience of playing with Kane, decent in the air and can carry the ball well. I have some reservations over his ability to bring others into the game and his passing but I think Poch could improve him there (another one of those boxes boss).

Anyway, I can't really be bothered discussing this with though as you're clearly so sure of yourself and your opinion, I couldn't even convince you black was black if you thought it was white.

 

[jurgen]

There's some breaks in the logic here... Poch is a system manager > we play a system > Poch seemingly wants Berahino > he doesn't fit our system (according to some) > but apparently our system cannot change > but Poch wants him yet plays a system that Berahino apparently doesn't fit in and a system that cannot change to accommodate him, yet Poch seemingly wants him >

 

[danielneeds]

There's some breaks in the logic here... Poch is a system manager > we play a system > Poch seemingly wants Berahino > he doesn't fit our system (according to some) > but apparently our system cannot change > but Poch wants him yet plays a system that Berahino apparently doesn't fit in and a system that cannot change to accommodate him, yet Poch seemingly wants him >

It's not really about changing the system, it's about playing to a striker's strengths. With Kane you want to get the ball to his feet, with Berahino you'd want to put the ball in the channels more, and maybe play Dembele as the 10 so you've got more physical player to give it to to hold it up if needs be.

 

[jurgen]

If Poch wants him I'm assuming he knows how he wants to use him. In that case it's not really like Defoe who was Harry's adopted son, or Bent who was seemingly bought with no great input from the manager...

 

[Tuddly]

There's some breaks in the logic here... Poch is a system manager > we play a system > Poch seemingly wants Berahino > he doesn't fit our system (according to some) > but apparently our system cannot change > but Poch wants him yet plays a system that Berahino apparently doesn't fit in and a system that cannot change to accommodate him, yet Poch seemingly wants him >

 

[Imnotacticalgenius]

I believe that MoPo is working towards a more flexible tactical and formation change.....sort of Plan C and D to the Plan A and B of how the first team play right now; including the playing formation. With the likes of SB, making MoPo highly interested, i think we might see some formation change in certain games (most probably more so for next season). Tactical Formation change to 4-3-3 or others in certain games, to neutralise/counter certain opponents game.......If this is what MoPo really intended, Spurs would potentially be on another tactical level next season. COYS!!!