TBWAH Coutesy of Ackneyboy (FTL)

[stevenqoz]

Lily, we used to go parties in Dalston / Hackney where often there was a downstairs room where the get togethers went on. The singles never had a label on and
blue-beat played. As I said to TCO the blokes I knew from that area were skins but loved Reggae. Shamy Kennedy and Micky Sullivan were two smart dressing blokes from around your way. They also liked stuff like the Undisputed Truth etc....all black.

 

[nipponyid]

Siouxie and the Banshees wore swastikas in the late 70s when punk started. They were not Nazi sympathizers. It was a shock tactic, a statement to say "up yours" and your cosy little life, we are new, we are angry and we are in yer face.
Bill Grundy got the sack, cos he allowed them to swear on live TV on the Thames Today show. It caused outrage.

Wasn`t that the Sex pistols Lily?

 

[DOX]

I think the "Nazi" boy was Joey Wizz. It wasn't a nazi thing in those days, more of a skin/anti commie thing, nothing about Jew haters or anything like that, his Dad was Polish.


If you knew him or still do know him - He is a nice bloke, and if you called him a nonce
I don't think he would like it too much. I think he ran a drinker near the ground maybe it was legends ?

Photo.
33. Keith Robinson
41. Sean Whitbourne & Phil Nation, Sean was a gooner but loved a scrap (hard bastard)
so came with us for a tear-up when he felt like it.
85. Graham "Flacko" Thaxton & Terry ?


I know lots of the faces but can't remember or never knew all the names.


I've only looked at one of the albums so far, back later.

Of course, it had absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism, and those wearing the Swastika emblem, all haughty and prideful, did not know zilch about the anti-Semitic connotations associated with the "charm of good luck" thirty years after the WW2 ended...

And if you did have a Polish relative that would most certainly clear your name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Police

 

[fieryjack]

You lot have sure got it in for Joe, first you drag up a 30 year old picture of him in a trendy anorak and then you did up a picture of him in his old police uniform. Leave him alone.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Politics-schmoliticks.

Anything can be dressed up to suit the perspective of people
wishing to influence others. Ignoring certain facts and
amplifying others.

The government have been doing it for years.

 

[miles_64]

It caused outrage.
Yes, I'm sure many Jewish people were deeply offended at the time and did not appreciate any alternative meaning.
The early evening news on ITN lasted for 10 mins back then, we did not have wall to wall 24 hour news. For people now to say "get an education" or "they were ignorant" is putting today's lifestyle and way of looking at things and transporting it back to another era - wrongly IMO.

Someone posted earlier that they guessed that it was younger, jewish fans who are expressing their opinions against the wearing of the nazi symbol. I am indeed a younger fan although not a jewish one yet I do understand your point of view.

However, I do not think that jewish fans should have had to appreciate an alternative meaning - to them there was only one: terror. Yes, the swastika was worn to 'stick the finger up' at the middle classes, yes it was controversial, yet that does not stop it from being ignorant and inconsiderate as supporters of a club with a large jewish fanbase. There are plenty of other ways to make a controversial statement, I simply believe that this was a step too far.

 

[lily_lane]

Wasn`t that the Sex pistols Lily?

Siouxie Sue was also there in the TV studios and one of the people who swore - egged on by Bill Grundy. :wink:

She was originally a *fan*, one of the punks dressed in Westwood clothing who all hung around together and attended the gigs. For ages people would write "sign Siouxie and the Banshees" in loos, on walls etc. cos she had formed a band and did gigs.

As TCO said in relation to Tom Robinson, Siouxie and her dummer have long since lived in comfy pastoral France afaik. A far cry from her anti-establishmentarianism.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Vivienne Westwood, Queen of Punk now 66/7 had the shop down the Kings Rd in the 70's called seditonaires.

Sediton was treasonable at one time.

Next thing you know she is up the Palace (Not Crystal) shaking hands with Her Maj
wearing no drawers the many toothed fritch.



People who make half arsed comments about things they know nothing about are actually digging a deeper whole than they realise. (Carry on !)

 

[lily_lane]

Someone posted earlier that they guessed that it was younger, jewish fans who are expressing their opinions against the wearing of the nazi symbol. I am indeed a younger fan although not a jewish one yet I do understand your point of view.

However, I do not think that jewish fans should have had to appreciate an alternative meaning - to them there was only one: terror. Yes, the swastika was worn to 'stick the finger up' at the middle classes, yes it was controversial, yet that does not stop it from being ignorant and inconsiderate as supporters of a club with a large jewish fanbase. There are plenty of other ways to make a controversial statement, I simply believe that this was a step too far.

I totally understand that point of view and sympathize. I also used the wrong word last night in saying "appreciate", I should've said understand or accept instead.

Just a couple of examples though of how complicated life can be and misunderstandings/ignorance and prejudice occur in places you would least expect.

Firstly, in class when German lessons began. To that point we hadn't learnt anything about the War in History, and as I say, news/information/philosophy just wasn't as readily available back then. The girl sat next to me (we were all very young) drew the swastika on her German exercise book cover, presumably, that was her innocent idea of what German meant to her. Nothing offensive intended, I'm sure. Her Mother was single, bringing up 3 kids and they were very poor, I remember. Our German teacher, who was infact Czech, I later found out, Mrs Szenes, got terribly upset, and asked her to remove the swastika, saying it was not a symbol of Germany and we mustn't ever think that.

A few years later in History lessons, we learnt about Germany from that period, from Kristalnacht onwards, and we all became much better informed. It helped we had a fantastic teacher, as is the way with these things.

Move on to me as an adult, and I get a part time job as a teaching assistant in a Jewish Orthodox school in Stamford Hill. Contrary to popular misconception, Golder's Green is not the centre of Jewish life in London. That's in North West London, affluent and smaller in comparison to North East London's Stamford Hill, in between Tottenham and Hackney.
I was surprised to be given the job, but this was one of those Independent School's gets a local authority grant type situations. I was assigned to help a class of little boys, and after a couple of weeks, a group of older boys aggressively surrounded me in the playground, calling me "schickser" (an insulting term for non-Jew) and spat at me. When I attempted to speak to the boy's Mother's I was told that their son's "only copied what the other boys did".

Needless to say I resigned. It was an incredibly distressing experience, and the images of the Holocaust on the walls on the way to the Secretary's office just told me that if this group of children would attack another person for being different from them, then what lessons from history have been learned?


Sorry to go so way off topic from Spurs Chat, but you could walk to WHL from where the school is situated.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Stamford Hill already ?

 

[lily_lane]

Siouxie Sue is on the right, standing up, with a fag on.

http://www.boingboing.net/images/pistolsgundy.jpg

 

[lily_lane]

Stamford Hill already ?

I'm sure you know the school too, which I won't name, cos Stoof will quote legal jargon at me.

 

[lily_lane]

Vivienne Westwood, Queen of Punk now 66/7 had the shop down the Kings Rd in the 70's called seditonaires.

Sediton was treasonable at one time.

Next thing you know she is up the Palace (Not Crystal) shaking hands with Her Maj
wearing no drawers the many toothed fritch.

:rofl: Actually whenever I go on about the talented people to have come from Stoke Newington, like Marc Bolan (his Nan stopped me and my T Rex T Shirt wearing friend in the street to show us her bus pass as proof and chat about him!) I always miss out that devious svengali creep Malcolm McClaren. mg:

 

[TheChosenOne]

"Stamford Hill"

That was my first post.. wherein the early 60's I saw the Sound of Music and many other fantastic escapist moives.

From there down to Clapton Pond was a massive tranche of Yiddish houses, the frummers and the women all around Springfield, Kynaston Road. This was a ghetto but not as we know it .
They were strange 'cos of the curly sidebaords and hats and things but this was pre-ethnic.

 

[TheChosenOne]

To be continued, tomorrow. Hopefully.....

 

[AllSeeingEye]

I have to say that this is one of the most interesting threads ever started in this forum.

For the first time I recognise a forum discussion taking place, better than some of the endless mindless waffle.

I remember similar experiences to LL's growing in the relative backwaters of the south coast.

But anyway, I am glad that those days are over and we can at least be thankful that we are more mature now and better informed, and have the liberty of discussing things in a constructive way.

 

[lily_lane]

"Stamford Hill"

That was my first post.. wherein the early 60's I saw the Sound of Music and many other fantastic escapist moives.

From there down to Clapton Pond was a massive tranche of Yiddish houses, the frummers and the women all around Springfield, Kynaston Road. This was a ghetto but not as we know it .
They were strange 'cos of the curly sidebaords and hats and things but this was pre-ethnic.

Oh, still look/dress exactly the same, still close their shops on Saturday. Sadly the Kosher Fishmonger next door to Egg Stores has closed down. Hope more don't follow, or the character of the place will be lost.
It's strange to hear some French or New Yawk accents sometimes from the women folk - who came over to marry.

Remember the old Coach Depot on the High Street? Now a big block of Orthodox Jewish Housing Association flats, right next door to Morrisons supermarket.

 

[lily_lane]

Lily, we used to go parties in Dalston / Hackney where often there was a downstairs room where the get togethers went on. The singles never had a label on and
blue-beat played. As I said to TCO the blokes I knew from that area were skins but loved Reggae. Shamy Kennedy and Micky Sullivan were two smart dressing blokes from around your way. They also liked stuff like the Undisputed Truth etc....all black.

I forgot to mention Trojan records. The main record label promoting and releasing Reggae back then, and still collected today by a few diehards.

I was neighbours and best friends with the little sister of Tony Oakley, lead singer with Greyhound, who had many hits in the 70s.

 

[TheChosenOne]

I'll be back tomroow,with the memory stuff, the Golden Green coaches etc.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Woke up this morning, realising I meant to say Grey-Green coaches.
Not far from the Guninness Trust estate where I knew many families.


I watched the firsty half of the 67 Celtic European Cup final in a shop in a parade
of shops there and belted home at home timefor the second half.

Now trying to think of the name of the Pub opposite Guinness flats ?