The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - DEADLINE DAY 31st August 2021

[Hercules]

Just pointing out 2 very opposing views from 2 very respected posters. I am not taking sides, so no need to bite ??

I know

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It was JM that didn't want Dias not DL
Nuno position was Traore would definitely help us - club and everyone on transfer committee (inc Nuno) tried to do but agreed 45-50M is a gamble in current climate of a global pandemic with lost revenue. All happy.

Seems sensible. 45m is helluva big fee for a player with such obvious flaws. Glad ALL of the transfer committee agreed it wasn’t worth it in the current climate.

 

[rossdapep]

If that's how Levy feels with these kinds of signings why does he just shoot it down first time?

Instead of playing this stupid game where he puts in ridiculous offers when he has no intention of paying close to the asking, leading everyone on a time wasting exercise, whilst other targets could be pursued, why doesn't he just be upfront with them all from the start. You only agitate people more by leading them into false hope.

 

[FloridaSpur]

I normally wait a couple of days before my post window postmortem, because more things have come to light and there is a bit more balance to it. What I am sure of right now is it was 100% DL that pulled the plug on any potential deal for Traore on deadline day. Yesterday morning we were all hearing exactly the same that we were going back in for him. by 2pm it was "no chance he's too much money and will half that price next Summer with one year left."

Amen for that.

 

[the lad]

If that's how Levy feels with these kinds of signings why does he just shoot it down first time?

Instead of playing this stupid game where he puts in ridiculous offers when he has no intention of paying close to the asking, leading everyone on a time wasting exercise, whilst other targets could be pursued, why doesn't he just be upfront with them all from the start. You only agitate people more by leading them into false hope.

Full of his own importance, thinks he is so clever making low ball bids, just pisses off selling clubs and continues to make us look pathetic.

 

[hamsup_sotong]

seems like what Simon Jordan has mentioned that baldy is an accountant at heart rings true. he won't sanction any purchases at above what his perceived value is. It is what it is.

It's been a good window, not a great one.

what I'm curious about is this. The general consensus is that most European clubs barring the epl are fecked, I believe trix has mentioned it as well. there hasn't been the widespread firesale at all, and those clubs were still holding firm on silly valuations. any insight on that?

 

[Huddlebone]

Alrighty, here we go.



Our DoF was given a budget, which he performed miracles, and kept well within. Basically near net-spend, without getting tied down on exact figures. If you take time to calculate our signings, they were basically ‘loans’ in essence. Yes! There are ‘Options/Obligations’. So not much spent.



Our DoF took on his role, as he was assured DL would not interfere once given his budget. The only time he would is if we were likely to exceed it. The financial department, and DL would sign off.

If the structure looks like Paratici has "the plan" the one that picks out the players that we have scouted and the manager needs, then he have to get those players cleared by our transfer committee. If members in the committee (Daniel) says that this transfer is to risky from a financial point of view does not mean that they interfere in fotball sayings its just how our structure works right ?

To make such a big fuss about not spending/splash 45-50m pounds on Traore, come on....

 

[Hercules]

If the structure looks like Paratici has "the plan" the one that picks out the players that we have scouted and the manager needs, then he have to get those players cleared by our transfer committee. If members in the committee (Daniel) says that this transfer is to risky from a financial point of view does not mean that they interfere in fotball sayings its just how our structure works right ?

To make such a big fuss about not spending/splash 45-50m pounds on Traore, come on....

You do miss the point. Please read my post with an unbiased view. Nuno wanted Traoré! Everything was done to have the funds to do the deal. A deal the coach wanted, who has us 9 points after three games, and top of the league. Not for anyone outside to judge. The DoF worked miracles to make sure the budget was there. Why can’t you not see that?

 

[jimmyh]

Thanks Herc for all the information you provide really appreciated.

Even all you BSODL have to realise by now that this football club under the stewardship of Levy and Enic are never going to succeed or be remotely successful on the football pitch. We can shout all we want and detest the baldy wee miserable ratbag and it won't make a blind bit of difference because he knows at the end of the day we keep supporting our club.

He does not see us as fans just cash cows a way of making money. We seen leaks coming out of the club that Levy knows he needs to get champions league football WALOB as long as the stadium keeps getting filled every other week he won't give a shit.

Levy has no ambition the stadium was built to make money and the fact that a lot of the design was based on American stadiums should tell you all you need to know about his thought process on an American football franchise in the future.

While Enic and Levy in charge we never make that step up and if your arguments are but look were we were under Poch well Levy got lucky allowed the club to standstill and now the top four maybe even the six is going to be way in the distance and don't try and make argument but look we are on top of the table we have been very lucky in our first 3 games.

Would love to actually look forward to watching us play and be entertained by our football but don't think that will happen any time soon.

 

[piedpiper]

Love it!
Spamming the thread by asking about ratings and you go and revenge spam my last two posts!!

Grow up.

Yeah he did exactly that to me last week. I disliked or doh something in the Winks thread. He immediately went and found a post from 3 days prior....same with @dontcallme who I subsequently put on ignore.

I honestly don't mind my comments being put up to scrutiny and rated accordingly. That's never an issue. Childish tit for tat just gets an ignore going forward.

 

[Timbar]

Personally not unhappy pin was pulled on Traore. What is disappointing is that we didn’t spend that on a striker or creative midfielder with finishing ability. Yes he bring something but not 50m worth in my opinion.

 

[piedpiper]

JJ said himself last night that people get information from different sources and thus get different angles on things.

People need to realise that the people like Trix Herc and JJ etc are just passing on what they’ve heard in good faith. Sometimes what people hear is second or even third hand info, sometimes it’s first hand stuff. Some will be closer to what’s happening and others will be hearing from someone who’s heard about it from someone else.

You’re best bet is to take any info with a pinch of salt, not because the guys are making stuff up, but because information will always be different depending on which end it’s coming from.

Look at the Kane saga, City’s itks we’re adamant that they’d get it done; Trix heard from their end that it was close, while others like Dragon were hearing the exact opposite.

Just take whatever is shared at face value, don’t think of it as something that’s written in stone. It’s gossip at the end of the day, we all love hearing it and we all love gossiping about it ourselves.

Great post.... I honestly think we have a newer younger generation of posters coming through who don't understand how itk works Trix and JJs post particularly gave insight into how stuff works from different angles or sources.

The biggest part for me is "take with a pinch of salt" it's not meant as a dig to our Itk but if the deal doesn't come off you haven't invested serous emotions in it. I think far too many posters see Itk posters as sitting at the top table and being mouth pieces of the club. They are posters like the rest of us.doing us a great service.

 

[gibbospurs]

Firstly thanks for all the itk! never stop posting, we as fans get frustrated with the club not you guys. So if a few get shitty with ratings you’ve kind of got to understand maybe it’s not a personal gripe at yourselves but the fact they don’t believe what people in the club are saying?‍
secondly i would like to apologise to the mods and other members on here that I’ve wound up over the last couple of weeks. And bitten at remarks others have made which I’m old enough to know better. (Most have probably got me on ignore now so won’t see this lol) My last point is anyone who owns a business however large or small simply wouldn’t or maybe couldn’t sit back and watch others spend money that was theirs or their clubs on what they thought was a bad deal. 50m is a load of money. Plus everyone is forgetting his wages on top. If we had knowledge he was the main target 2 months ago everyone would of gone ape. We got to the last week and most on here decided it was a great idea. Simply because it was the last chance saloon. Maybe we should of had a back up option and played our cards earlier? Maybe that was Pats fault? Or Nuno only wanting him? Anyway, let’s hope we play some decent football this season. ?

 

[Huddlebone]

You do miss the point. Please read my post with an unbiased view. Nuno wanted Traoré! Everything was done to have the funds to do the deal. A deal the coach wanted, who has us 9 points after three games, and top of the league. Not for anyone outside to judge. The DoF worked miracles to make sure the budget was there. Why can’t you not see that?

I do understand your point and I totally agree that Paraticis work this window has been world class, but that does not contradict what I was saying/wondering about the view from our transfer committees decision on a separate transfer (traore). Just because our DoF made super deals with low risk on one side does not open up for him to make a huge splurge on the other side does it ?

To argue that we should give full confidence of judement to a new manager (or 10th choice?) after 3 wins does not play any part in if Traore is a good value deal in my opinion, but then I dont have full information in the matter either. Thank you for the info!

 

[HobbitSpur]

I agree I think 5th is our ceiling this year.

I think 4th is our ceiling this year. Chelsea City and Utd I feel are just far too strong. However Liverpool I feel are catchable. Anyone who finishes above Liverpool will take 4th.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

I think 4th is our ceiling this year. Chelsea City and Utd I feel are just far too strong. However Liverpool I feel are catchable. Anyone who finishes above Liverpool will take 4th.

I think that’s wishful thinking. Fifth place would be an achievement given the broader context of our squad, with sixth place being on par. It’s possible Liverpool finish fourth as an ageing squad creaks over the course of a season and perhaps next season fourth place is up for grabs but no way are we good enough currently to compete with Utd, Chelsea, City and Liverpool. I think Leicester and Leeds will be in the mix for top six finishes. I just don’t see CL football at our club for a few seasons yet

 

[JJetset]

Alrighty, here we go.



Our DoF was given a budget, which he performed miracles, and kept well within. Basically near net-spend, without getting tied down on exact figures. If you take time to calculate our signings, they were basically ‘loans’ in essence. Yes! There are ‘Options/Obligations’. So not much spent.



Our DoF took on his role, as he was assured DL would not interfere once given his budget. The only time he would is if we were likely to exceed it. The financial department, and DL would sign off.



I said privately our DoF requested the help of Mendez on certain deals , more to assist the selling club, but also us. And I will not divulge beyond that. Around three weeks ago we started to make moves for Traoré, but for this to happen Mendez had to get a ‘mandate’ to assist. This was known privately, even before the media got wind of it.



The player himself made it known to Wolves, he wanted to join us. Liverpool were interested, but knocked back. We offered a derisory sum to Wolves. This at the interference of DL, who did not like the sound of ‘cash’ in any form, though spread out over term of his contract. He then suggested we do ‘Loan with option’ and insulting offer. He then offered ‘obligation’ but same offer. The initial down payment was a joke.



His view was ‘Traoré has around just under two years left’ and feel it was bad business to offer what Wolves wanted. Traoré told Wolves he would not be signing a new contract. Tuesday agreement was reached we would as good as meet their valuation, based upon realistic incentives, which was relayed they would accept. A meeting was held by DL and those involved, and he was not happy to sanction such an outlay. And argued on Stevie, Lucas, Gil, Lucas as ‘just as good’ and better. And we should use them in the mid-term.



There is/was money for a ‘special purchase’ and was being saved for the striker department. Nuno viewed Traoré as the ideal player to fulfil various roles, and create space etc, for our ‘capabilities to create goal scoring opportunities for players like Dele, Kane, Lucas, Gil, Son, GLC’

It was viewed that we need to cover this area, seeing we failed to bring in a striker, even on loan. We also tried for Neves lol.



I will be surprised if Paratici is here at the end of his contract, and already clubs over here looking at him. If you really believe Nuno will work under these conditions beyond his remit (2 years) we are wrong. Same reasons why he left Wolves



My conclusion is Mr Daniel Levy cannot let go, cannot grip himself. And Paratici is no glove puppet. For all of us very long-suffering supporters, I feel for us, because our club is a drug in our veins. COYS

Good one mate - well done for coming out, much braver than me !

re this : A meeting was held by DL and those involved, and he was not happy to sanction such an outlay. And argued on Stevie, Lucas, Gil, Lucas as ‘just as good’ and better. And we should use them in the mid-term.

Pretty much Verbatim !

 

[Delboy75]

Such a confusing window tbh. Started to shift the dead wood and I really like the signings we’ve made. But does have the feeling of so close to being a very good window with 1 more top attacking player. On the other hand if you count Romero and Gollini as buys not loans our net is close on £100m only Arsenal doing more.
Also just looked through all the other clubs and really apart from United nobody has really pulled up trees. People were saying Villa who’s net spend is actually positive. It’s remarkable how Chelsea balance the books, hate to say it but they are remarkably well run.

 

[DenverSpur]

I'll caveat, a lot of that is I don't think Nuno has ever been likely to stay long anyways. Nor do I particularly rate Traore's overall game but here's my general reasoning:

We got lucky we got a fee for Sissoko and Hart. Lamela we dumped his wages in trade for Gil. Toby went for pennies. Aurier literally we tore up his contract. Eriksen rode his down and left for a fraction of his worth at the time relative to his importance to Spurs. Kane may well ride his down now to get a dream move. Lucas we'll probably have to let go for free in due course. NDombele we can't get rid. GLC can't stay fit. Sessegnon is maybe just now an outside chance at being a backup when we paid starter money.

We have become kings of vacuuming up non-transferable talent in recent years. Talent that was either aging faster than we could replace or specifically problematic in a way that the odds of them succeeding are small and the odds them being sellable in the future nearly zero. Some of that is bad luck pandemic but definitely not all.

Our remit this summer clearly included younger players with cheaper contracts and better sell on prospects or to build a new team around. Emerson, Sarr, and Gil clearly meet this. Romero was our reach player before the Traore deal came up. Traore for all his skill would clearly have a high percentage chance, especially on a near club record fee, of falling into the same category.

If Levy hasn't learned from all of that he's a fool. If he sees those who report to him about to do something he believes is not in the interest of the club he has a duty to intervene. Especially if they were testing the upper band of the budget he allocated to them. Yes we always say "back the manager" and "back the DOF" but that always comes with managerial oversight error brackets. I think in this case he was right to intervene. Onions and all that.

Wish I could winner this more than once. You have hit the nail on the head. Well done sir.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Is this why Arnesen left for Chelsea? Or did he only leave for the money? Maybe he found out early that he wouldn't have much control. Let's hope we keep Paratici long enough to make a difference. We seem to be on track again now signing young players who have a high ceiling. I've been impressed with the players we've attracted here and I'm sure Paratici played a big part in that. We signed players from Atalanta, Sevilla and Barca, all teams in the Champions League.

Nah. Arnesen didn't leave because of anything that specifically happened at Spurs. He left because Chelsea tapped him up, because they were funded by a superrich oligarch, and because he would have a far bigger budget to work with there....along with a far bigger wage.