The Jol Vote

[Stoof]

Don't be plonker.

I'm not being a plonker. How would you feel if your boss was out there sourcing your job to someone else?

Part of being a top manager is dealing with situations like that, he talks tough, but cracks under pressure. If it makes you feel better, by all means blame it all on the bogey-man board, lol, but if you want the reality then it's the results on the pitch aren't good enough and if you're the manager

I blame the Board for getting caught - I'm not so naive as to think it doesn't go on, but I blame them for being sloppy and unprofessional. Especially going on their recent, very professional history.

and you make mistakes for all to see I'm afraid you're going to have to take most of the blame.

Mistakes for all to see? Is this back to Jol catching crosses and not defending properly again? :wink:

 

[idlepete]

I went for No, he deserves until the end of the season and we won't get a caretaker any better.

More for the we won't get a caretaker any better bit than the he deserves until the end of the season bit.

In my opinion we're hamstrung by our DoF Structure. Our buying policy has been the major cause of our problems IMO. The squad simply isn't good enough. And now, there looks to be no way we'll get a good replacement for Jol with that same structure in place.

I've supported Jol all the way up to now but he can't go on much longer. The only problem with Jol is that he's made some tactical mistakes. These tend to be on the spot decisions that go wrong, mainly IMO, because he has a lack of resources. People accuse him of papering over the cracks - this is true, but it's because he's had so many cracks in our squad to paper over. It's his job FFS! He always comes up with a system to do that, but every season it's taken a lot of time - time it looks like he now doesn't have because of the way the board have acted. If we could just give him time...

 

[PLTuck]

In a few interviews recently, including the one on Setanta, when Jol has been asked about the pressure he is under, he keeps subtley adding that it was there 'even before the season started'.

This suggests to me that Jol was at least aware of the board shenanigans before the Ramos debacle.

Not sure what conclusions to make from it, in fact I really don't know what to believe anymore. Jol's interviews are starting to grate on me a little. He seems to be spinning it quite well himself. eg "I say to the players, you have to be strong because one day you are the hero, and the next you have to prove yourself again". To my cynical mind, this actually meant "Look, I'm on the verge of losing my job. I was a hero 4 months ago and now I have to prove myself again."

Incidentally, my vote was the 'untenable' one.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

although i want his leaving sooner rather than letter, but can't vote for any of first two options .. the first games, he made poor selections and formation and that's why i can't fault the Board, but also can't see he is poor manager while he did good job in recent two years plus he made an improvement recently in terms of selection and subs ..

My vote for 5th option: He should leave by matual consent as he take us as far as he can and he can't handle the pressure.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

every manager has a blip. i can forgive him.

i love you martin! wiggly wig

 

[llamafarmer]

that said - would the RIGHT man come into a club where his finite authourity would be in question from the outset? i'm not so sure. i feel that the root of all of the problems lies within the director of football role rather than the managers post.

Agreed. I don't know where exactly the problem is with the structure, but it's no longer working imo. It may be Comolli, it may be a slight change in roles, but it doesn't seem the well oiled, cohesive unit it was with Arnesen in charge. Probably because Arnesen is a top drawer DOF, Comolli is new to it.

 

[teddyboy]

every manager has a blip. i can forgive him.

i love you martin! wiggly wig

You know what they say about love..??

It’s blind..! And I just can’t see him turning things around. And even if he did the board are still gonna hit the ejector button come the end of the season.

If I were him I would leave saying “under the current structure and add to that the support the board have given me, I feel there is no other options but to stand down for what I hope will be best for Tottenham Hotspur and the fans.

 

[eddiebailey]

Putting him on trial to the end of the season is not an option. The only way he can turn this around is if he has the unequivocal support of the Board. Give him an enhanced contract to put an end to the speculation and a big pile of money to spend in January. Time for the Levy to show some balls for once and stand up and be counted.

 

[teddyboy]

Putting him on trial to the end of the season is not an option. The only way he can turn this around is if he has the unequivocal support of the Board. Give him an enhanced contract to put an end to the speculation and a big pile of money to spend in January. Time for the Levy to show some balls for once and stand up and be counted.

eddiebailey where on earth have you been hiding....

:shrug:

 

[tommyt]

Putting him on trial to the end of the season is not an option. The only way he can turn this around is if he has the unequivocal support of the Board. Give him an enhanced contract to put an end to the speculation and a big pile of money to spend in January. Time for the Levy to show some balls for once and stand up and be counted.

:clap:Brilliant. That is really the only way out.

 

[teddyboy]

:clap:Brilliant. That is really the only way out.

Only problem is the board have already made it clear that they all intend to take their turn of doing him up the batty on the boardroom table.

 

[jimbo]

Back him or sack him it is then.

I don't think giving him a load of cash and indeterminate length of time to run the team is the way forward though. We have 3 home games in a week and we need to win them all. After those 3 games we will know more about just how bad things are.

 

[sloth]

I'm not being a plonker. How would you feel if your boss was out there sourcing your job to someone else?

What's that got to do with it? I'm not claiming to be a premiership manager. It's part of the job Stoof, like drilling a defence, or instilling a strong mentality, or getting the best out of young players. Managing the board is a crucial part of being a manager, if there's a DoF you've got to learn how to work with him as well. If you can't do it, or you can't handle the pressure then you're not as good at the job as you think you are and if you're at the very top level then that's not good enough.

And if you're not being a plonker then you're being a drama queen :wink:

I blame the Board for getting caught - I'm not so naive as to think it doesn't go on, but I blame them for being sloppy and unprofessional. Especially going on their recent, very professional history.

Fair enough, but that's totally different from laying the blame for the current situation at the feet of the board. I swear what this is about is not finding people to point the finger at but people on here looking for ways to save face whilst at the same time back down from the previously over the top declarations of undying love and total faith in the Dutch One.

Mistakes for all to see? Is this back to Jol catching crosses and not defending properly again? :wink:

Either you think the Manager is the crucial man in the set-up or you don't. Either you think Gross was incompetent and Mourinho special or you don't. Successful managers are successful because they go from team to team and success to success, the reverse obviously applies to unsuccessful managers (Souness, O'Leary etc). So no, Jol's not catching crosses or vital tackles, but he should make sure his personnel are and if he can't then he's not doing his job properly.

You know that though Stoof, so why are saying it?

 

[Spurs4Life23]

Back him or sack him it is then.

I don't think giving him a load of cash and indeterminate length of time to run the team is the way forward though. We have 3 home games in a week and we need to win them all. After those 3 games we will know more about just how bad things are.

I agree look what happened when we threw a load of cash at players over the sumer - we got Bent who hasnt performed at all and I would still rather start with Berbatov and Keane even if he was playing well.

As for the next 3 games they are pivotal as to whether Jol gets the boot or not. We are forgetting how close it is at the moment the team 10th only have 5 more points. As long as we can win these games Jol should stay until the end of the season - when he will inevitably be replaced by the boad.

 

[Stoof]

What's that got to do with it? I'm not claiming to be a premiership manager. It's part of the job Stoof, like drilling a defence, or instilling a strong mentality, or getting the best out of young players. Managing the board is a crucial part of being a manager, if there's a DoF you've got to learn how to work with him as well. If you can't do it, or you can't handle the pressure then you're not as good at the job as you think you are and if you're at the very top level then that's not good enough.

But how have you come to the conclusion that he isn't good enough? Do you base it on the two seasons we finished 5th?

And before the start of this season I'd say he managed the board pretty well, don't you? Can you say otherwise? Is it even possible to?

Fair enough, but that's totally different from laying the blame for the current situation at the feet of the board. I swear what this is about is not finding people to point the finger at but people on here looking for ways to save face whilst at the same time back down from the previously over the top declarations of undying love and total faith in the Dutch One.

What is the current situation? That we look like unprofessional monkeys that have undermined the manager. I'd say that's what my post was about, and that's the 'current situation' I was describing. So is that Jol's fault too? :lol:

Either you think the Manager is the crucial man in the set-up or you don't. Either you think Gross was incompetent and Mourinho special or you don't. Successful managers are successful because they go from team to team and success to success, the reverse obviously applies to unsuccessful managers (Souness, O'Leary etc). So no, Jol's not catching crosses or vital tackles, but he should make sure his personnel are and if he can't then he's not doing his job properly.

I do think he's a good manager - I've seen him bring us to 5th finishes and a Calendar 4th in his first 3/4 season in charge. I don't suddenly think we've got a bad crop of players (as some seem to on here) - they're kids, they're young and they need time.

We chose to buy kids - and by "we" I mean the Board (as they set the transfer policies) - so with that means waiting for them to reach their potential. We can't have it both ways - which is what I think they do. I can wait, maybe others can't. I doubt Jol will be around to see them flourish. A great shame.

There's an interview with Jol saying "I can't buy a Distin or a Mexes, so I get in a Kaboul".

You know that though Stoof, so why are saying it?

I'm saying it because at some point the players need to play for Jol. They really do. They owe it to him.

 

[bugsdad]

If his name was Gross ,Pleat .G raham ,Ardilles or even Hoddle with this start to a season you would all be baying for his head. Because he is kind ,cuddly . likeable Uncle Martin you feel that despite the poor record, despite his pathetic substitutions, despite his poor team selection ,despite his unwillingness to drop favourites ,despite his extremely poor tactical knowledge and despite having the best squad of any manager for the last 20 years and having lost the respect of many of them, its not his fault. Blame the board ,blame the press, blame the other coaches,but never ever blame Uncle Martin.
As I've said before I'd love him as a brother or drinking pal but not as the manager of my beloved Spurs.

 

[bugsdad]

Perhaps the most telling statistic of the poll is that in your heart of hearts you know he is not the right man for the job.Even with 100% board backing only 10% feel he is the right man to take us forward..nuff said.

 

[Stoof]

If his name was Gross ,Pleat .G raham ,Ardilles or even Hoddle with this start to a season you would all be baying for his head. Because he is kind ,cuddly . likeable Uncle Martin you feel that despite the poor record, despite his pathetic substitutions, despite his poor team selection ,despite his unwillingness to drop favourites ,despite his extremely poor tactical knowledge and despite having the best squad of any manager for the last 20 years and having lost the respect of many of them, its not his fault. Blame the board ,blame the press, blame the other coaches,but never ever blame Uncle Martin.
As I've said before I'd love him as a brother or drinking pal but not as the manager of my beloved Spurs.

I blame Uncle Martin for taking us to two 5th placed finishes and daring to make the club a name worth uttering once more.

How dare he get my support. How dare he. But all is long and forgotten in those late season days of October, with only 30 odd games left.

Perhaps the most telling statistic of the poll is that in your heart of hearts you know he is not the right man for the job.Even with 100% board backing only 10% feel he is the right man to take us forward..nuff said.

Guess who's in that 10%. :dance: Proud to be, too.

 

[karsten_finkle]

Agreed. I don't know where exactly the problem is with the structure, but it's no longer working imo. It may be Comolli, it may be a slight change in roles, but it doesn't seem the well oiled, cohesive unit it was with Arnesen in charge. Probably because Arnesen is a top drawer DOF, Comolli is new to it.

yup - bob on.

i'd even go further than that by saying that i don't believe there is a place for a DoF at the club at all.

a head scout - with good contacts around the footballing globe - yes. and that's exactly what comolli is, a scout. he's not a DoF.

when looking at the top four this season, the only one that looks dis-jointed is the one with a DoF - chelsea.

Man U, Liverpool, and Arsenal are all looking extemely good and not one of them employs this silly DoF structure. coincidence? i think not.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Perhaps the most telling statistic of the poll is that in your heart of hearts you know he is not the right man for the job.Even with 100% board backing only 10% feel he is the right man to take us forward..nuff said.

That's a unique and very "special" way to interpret the results. How you came to that figure is a mystery to me.