The Last Piece of the Puzzle,a DM

[sweyid]

I really think Sander Berge could be the missing piece of the puzzle. Good tackler, can carry the ball out from the back, can pick a pass, decent pace and he's a unit at 1,95m.

 

[Donki]

I love Skipp. I just thing he is less of a Dier but could be more of a CM type. We need a tough DM.
I'd take Matic till we got one

He is done, I would say the majority of United fans would pay us to take him. Is there any reason why NDombele could adapt to this?

 

[Pellshek]

Was trying to think of how often we played a DM during Poch's excellent period at Spurs.

Exactly a year ago we beat Dortmund back to back in the CL 3-0 and 0-1 and didn't play a DM in either game. Against City a round earlier, we had no DM at home (although we did play Big Vic in the Away game). We played Winks in the hole against Barca (D) and Inter (W) earlier in the same competition, but no recognised DM either time. We beat Man Utd 3-0 at OT in the PL at the start of that same season with no DM (Dembele played in the hole).

It's certainly true we played Dier or Vic in many games over the last few great seasons, but it's not true that a dedicated DM was an ever-present, even against big teams in big games (again, unless you count Demebele or Winks, neither of whom are dedicated "DM's").

So yeah, I suppose we do need a top DM, but I'd dispute the notion that seems to be floating around that you essentially start your team selection with the DM and built around that. I get the temptation to think like that - it suggests solidity is the starting point and you work from there - but I don't think that's how it works in the real world.


Ed: Data above isn't from my encyclopedic memory, but rather from a basic Google search, which handily lists line-ups.

 

[Ronwol196061]

He is done, I would say the majority of United fans would pay us to take him. Is there any reason why NDombele could adapt to this?

Im clutching at straws but I do believe that the most important player will be the stability of a top notch DM

 

[Ronwol196061]

Was trying to think of how often we played a DM during Poch's excellent period at Spurs.

Exactly a year ago we beat Dortmund back to back in the CL 3-0 and 0-1 and didn't play a DM in either game. Against City a round earlier, we had no DM at home (although we did play Big Vic in the Away game). We played Winks in the hole against Barca (D) and Inter (W) earlier in the same competition, but no recognised DM either time. We beat Man Utd 3-0 at OT in the PL at the start of that same season with no DM (Dembele played in the hole).

It's certainly true we played Dier or Vic in many games over the last few great seasons, but it's not true that a dedicated DM was an ever-present, even against big teams in big games (again, unless you count Demebele or Winks, neither of whom are dedicated "DM's").

So yeah, I'm guess we do need a top DM, but I'd dispute the notion that seems to be floating around that you essentially start your team selection with the DM and built around that. I get the temptation to think like that - it suggests solidity is the starting point and you work from there - but I don't think that's how it works in the real world.


Ed: Data above isn't from my encyclopedic memory, but rather from a basic Google search, which handily lists line-ups.

Of course we have a dynamic attack and that is good when they are in control and you can keep the wolf away from the door by keeping the ball down the other end. Also we had fantastic pressing which helped in that regard but the Bayern game,not the Dortmund game showed us how vulnerable we are/were. While Ndombele pushed forward for a half an hour we looked like Real Madrid in their heyday and then we collapsed with Winks back in front of the back line
Do I think Ndombele can play that role. Yes I do but that's not his natural game,its like putting Hoddle there,Ndombeles natural instincts are creative. Can he play up and down.I doubt that and I think that would be risky. Put a top notch DM behind him,give him Lo Celso to work with and a forward line that's buzzing and you will get the CL.
So when I say a DM is the most important it means its the backbone of the side. The right one would be our Van Dyke. It will pay for itself while the creative players do their business

 

[Ronwol196061]

I really think Sander Berge could be the missing piece of the puzzle. Good tackler, can carry the ball out from the back, can pick a pass, decent pace and he's a unit at 1,95m.

Will take a look Thanks!

 

[Ronwol196061]

I think we are all getting a bit hung up on needing a DM - do we? If we have N'Dombele playing deeper with Fernandes/Sissoko/Winks/Lo Celso either side of him surely we have enough there to make ourselves a high quality, fluid midfield.

If reports are true that is how Jose sees it. Maybe we all need to get over the whole DM idea.

Mourinho I think is tesing different things out but the one point he made when he came was about how much he liked Dier. That doesn't suggest he doesn't want a DM

 

[danielneeds]

Was trying to think of how often we played a DM during Poch's excellent period at Spurs.

Exactly a year ago we beat Dortmund back to back in the CL 3-0 and 0-1 and didn't play a DM in either game. Against City a round earlier, we had no DM at home (although we did play Big Vic in the Away game). We played Winks in the hole against Barca (D) and Inter (W) earlier in the same competition, but no recognised DM either time. We beat Man Utd 3-0 at OT in the PL at the start of that same season with no DM (Dembele played in the hole).

It's certainly true we played Dier or Vic in many games over the last few great seasons, but it's not true that a dedicated DM was an ever-present, even against big teams in big games (again, unless you count Demebele or Winks, neither of whom are dedicated "DM's").

So yeah, I suppose we do need a top DM, but I'd dispute the notion that seems to be floating around that you essentially start your team selection with the DM and built around that. I get the temptation to think like that - it suggests solidity is the starting point and you work from there - but I don't think that's how it works in the real world.


Ed: Data above isn't from my encyclopedic memory, but rather from a basic Google search, which handily lists line-ups.

Mate, Dembele’s defensive work was severely underrated. He’s a million miles better at intercepting and closing down spade than Winks.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Skipp will get a loan next season most likely to go out and prove himself, which is the right move.

I'd go for Wilmar Barrios at St. Petersburg. He's impressed me in the CL this season and the Russian league is implementing an even tighter limit on the amount of foreign players each club is allowed in the summer so there will be a fair few players looking to move on.

Ill take a look Thanks. I think there were rumours before and I took a look isn't he a bit more like a player in the NDombele position?

 

[Ronwol196061]

I don't think we'll have an out and out DM. I think we'll go to a central 3 who all work hard but with ability on top, eg, Lo Celso, Gedson, Ndombele, and Winks/Sissoko rotating in. Maybe use Dier to shut up shop occasionally.

Mourinho was excited about Dier when he came so not sure about whether he would have changed his mind about the position knowing how much he loves a tough defence and midfield

 

[Ronwol196061]

Mate, Dembele’s defensive work was severely underrated. He’s a million miles better at intercepting and closing down spade than Winks.
[/QUOT
Dembele was a powerhouse. The problem was he had Dier and Wanyama behind him but as good as he was,ball retention,dribbling etc he wasnt creative which meant we were super tough but we had to rely of the players more up the field to explode n attack,it wasnt enough

 

[Ronwol196061]

A lot of our problems in recent months have stemmed from our inability to protect our defence, and an inability to maintain possession of the football. Get those things sorted and it's all systems go.

If you compare man for man we aren't a million miles worse than Liverpool - They just have some shape about themselves tactically and they all know their jobs and carry them out effectively.

They also have a great anchor in Van Dyke. He allows the attack to flow. We need the same from a DM

 

[Ronwol196061]

Can call them what ever you like, but we need someone who can retain the ball from defence and carry it forward. If they can protect the back line too then that's even better!

He is a creative player. Creative players take chances. So yes as a DM its more risky. AS a CM its right on

 

[Stopspot]

Ill take a look Thanks. I think there were rumours before and I took a look isn't he a bit more like a player in the NDombele position?

Nah. He's a terrier of a defensive midfielder. We were originally linked with him in the summer of 2018 but we obviously did not sign anyone. So he moved to Russia in January 2019.

 

[tototoner]

what about Tanganga for that role

 

[hellava_tough]

So who are the best CDMs currently?

And are there any home grown talents in this area emerging?

 

[tototoner]

So who are the best CDMs currently?

And are there any home grown talents in this area emerging?

Declan Rice if we are looking external, still only 21 and is getting better all the time.

 

[YiddoTom90]

So who are the best CDMs currently?

And are there any home grown talents in this area emerging?

Ndidi. Choudary or rice home grown

 

[Japhet]

Was trying to think of how often we played a DM during Poch's excellent period at Spurs.

Exactly a year ago we beat Dortmund back to back in the CL 3-0 and 0-1 and didn't play a DM in either game. Against City a round earlier, we had no DM at home (although we did play Big Vic in the Away game). We played Winks in the hole against Barca (D) and Inter (W) earlier in the same competition, but no recognised DM either time. We beat Man Utd 3-0 at OT in the PL at the start of that same season with no DM (Dembele played in the hole).

It's certainly true we played Dier or Vic in many games over the last few great seasons, but it's not true that a dedicated DM was an ever-present, even against big teams in big games (again, unless you count Demebele or Winks, neither of whom are dedicated "DM's").

So yeah, I suppose we do need a top DM, but I'd dispute the notion that seems to be floating around that you essentially start your team selection with the DM and built around that. I get the temptation to think like that - it suggests solidity is the starting point and you work from there - but I don't think that's how it works in the real world.


Ed: Data above isn't from my encyclopedic memory, but rather from a basic Google search, which handily lists line-ups.

It's one thing to go without a DM if you press hard and efficiently and further up the pitch but something entirely different if you're going to sit deeper, soak up pressure and then try to hit on the counter attack. Mourinho has always tried to incorporate a quality DM in his teams and our current style would indicate to me that we need one.

 

[Johnny J]

It's one thing to go without a DM if you press hard and efficiently and further up the pitch but something entirely different if you're going to sit deeper, soak up pressure and then try to hit on the counter attack. Mourinho has always tried to incorporate a quality DM in his teams and our current style would indicate to me that we need one.

Agreed. I don't see how we can do without one, if Hercules' post on the way Mourinho wants us to play is accurate.