Thinking out loud

[Spurger King]

Personally, I would play Eriksen in a free role behind the striker (as well as Lamela) and have a mid 3 of Sandro (or Capoue), Holtby (or Bentaleb) and Paulinho (or Dembele).

Sandro/Capoue as the more defensive of the 3, still supporting attacks and driving forward with the ball when called for, but also filling in when others go forward and watching for potential threats if we lose the ball.

Holtby/Bentaleb as a "support" midfielder. Always supporting the player with the ball, playing a quick pass to another player to keep the ball moving and creating space for other players as well as playing passes for attackers to run onto when called for and running into the box to get on the end of things on occasion.

Paulinho/Dembele as a kind of box to box mid, making runs in between mid and att to create space, playing simple quick passes and making runs into the box to give another option/create space for others.

I wouldn't mind seeing Holtby in that role. It's a shame Carroll doesn't seem to have pushed on, as he was looking like the sort of metronomic player that could play in that role.

Still have big doubts over Paulinho and Dembele though. Good in theory, but in practice they seem to go missing far too often. Gutting really, as Paulinho looks like he has all the skills to make a fantastic player for us.

 

[spurs9]

central

Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho, Dembele*, Bentaleb, Carroll,

Attacking

Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela, Dembele*, Sig, Holtby, Townsend, Lennon,

I think we have a good smattering of Central M's for a 433 or 4231.

I'd happily see Sig, Lennon, Townsend offloaded from the attacking group and one or two more creative or more intelligent types brought in.


But we can't do what we did last two years and introduce a load more players. We need to consolidate, maybe integrate a couple of the development squad instead next season unless a genuine layer of quality becomes available.

CB and LB would be priorities for me, defence is by far our weakest area of the pitch.

I would like to see Pritchard given a go instead of bringing in a Creative more intelligent player brought in. I agree we should sell Sigg and one of Lennon & Townsend though.

 

[spurs9]

I wouldn't mind seeing Holtby in that role. It's a shame Carroll doesn't seem to have pushed on, as he was looking like the sort of metronomic player that could play in that role.

Still have big doubts over Paulinho and Dembele though. Good in theory, but in practice they seem to go missing far too often. Gutting really, as Paulinho looks like he has all the skills to make a fantastic player for us.

Dembele I agree with. Not sure what has happened to him but he seems to have regressed. Paulinho I think is a result of a few things, 1st season in EPL, 1st season with new team, both of which have been interupted with injury and change of management, as well as playing a mid 2 with a player that isn't defense minded, restricting his freedom.

I think with a support player and a DM next to him, he will really shine.

I also think if we got LVG as manager, he would get the best out of players like Paulinho, Soldado and Lamela.

 

[Spurger King]

Dembele I agree with. Not sure what has happened to him but he seems to have regressed. Paulinho I think is a result of a few things, 1st season in EPL, 1st season with new team, both of which have been interupted with injury and change of management, as well as playing a mid 2 with a player that isn't defense minded, restricting his freedom.

I think with a support player and a DM next to him, he will really shine.

I also think if we got LVG as manager, he would get the best out of players like Paulinho, Soldado and Lamela.

I'd love to see what Van Gaal would be able to do with a player like Paulinho. I agree that for many reasons we've not seen the best of him.

 

[spurs9]

I'd love to see what Van Gaal would be able to do with a player like Paulinho. I agree that for many reasons we've not seen the best of him.

For me Van Gaal is exactly what we need next season for many reasons.

He will instill the winning mentality/character we are missing right now.
He has experience and the rep to get the players to listen and balls to make them listen if they don't.
He would promote players from the youth teams.
He has already stated we have a great squad, so wouldn't require wholesale changes.
We have the players to fit his philosophy (he changes formations to fit the players at the club).
He will get the best of the players we have.

I was going to start by saying "going off the thread topic for a second" then I realised it was "thinking out loud".

 

[Spurger King]

For me Van Gaal is exactly what we need next season for many reasons.

He will instill the winning mentality/character we are missing right now.
He has experience and the rep to get the players to listen and balls to make them listen if they don't.
He would promote players from the youth teams.
He has already stated we have a great squad, so wouldn't require wholesale changes.
We have the players to fit his philosophy (he changes formations to fit the players at the club).
He will get the best of the players we have.

I was going to start by saying "going off the thread topic for a second" then I realised it was "thinking out loud".

Of all the managers that could come in and make the most of our existing squad with very little in the way of new signings, it would be Van Gaal. Just makes me think (with typical Spurs pessimism) that he'll end up somewhere like United.

 

[spurs9]

Of all the managers that could come in and make the most of our existing squad with very little in the way of new signings, it would be Van Gaal. Just makes me think (with typical Spurs pessimism) that he'll end up somewhere like United.

Yep, he is exactly what we need, we are in talks with him, he wants to come, something is going to go wrong. Mourinho will probably sign him some how.

 

[whitelanefever]

I think it depends if lloris & Jan go, on how many we need in, personally I'd tell them there going nowhere until January at the earliest, if we're not in a position to challenge then let them go.
Presumably Van Gal is coming in so I'd go for a Dutch spine to the incomings to make the transition of Van Gal's system easier.
with the need for possibly two new cb & a lb I'd go for Virgil Van Djik of Celtic for CB, have been really impressed with him whe n I've seen him he seems to have everything you would want in a CB, then i'd opt for Bruno Martins Indi at LB & he can play CB also & has the battling quality we need.
to fill the Modric role I'd go for Tonny Vilhena of Feyenoord, he's got the lot, it's like someone got the genes of Edgar Davids & Clarence Seedorf & mix them together & out popped Tonny & he has the strength & tenacity to thrive in PL.
I'd like us to sign a wideman who can actually cross a ball, so I'd look to James Ward Prowse of Southampton, would sort our free taking out for sure & and looks a real prospect Imo.
IN
CB Van Djik
LB & CB Martins Indi
CM Tonny Vilhena
RM Ward Prowse
FW Michu
Back-up gk Kevin Trapp Eint Frankfurt

OUT
Naughton
Lennon
Siggurdson
Paulinho
Townsend
____________________________________Lloris_______________________________________
_____Walker_____________Van Djik________________Verthongen____________Martins Indi
______________________________Sandro_____Vilhena__________________________________
__________Lamela____________________Michu______________________Eriksen______________
___________________________________Soldado________________________________________

 

[DaSpurs]

I think it depends if lloris & Jan go, on how many we need in, personally I'd tell them there going nowhere until January at the earliest, if we're not in a position to challenge then let them go.
Presumably Van Gal is coming in so I'd go for a Dutch spine to the incomings to make the transition of Van Gal's system easier.
with the need for possibly two new cb & a lb I'd go for Virgil Van Djik of Celtic for CB, have been really impressed with him whe n I've seen him he seems to have everything you would want in a CB, then i'd opt for Bruno Martins Indi at LB & he can play CB also & has the battling quality we need.
to fill the Modric role I'd go for Tonny Vilhena of Feyenoord, he's got the lot, it's like someone got the genes of Edgar Davids & Clarence Seedorf & mix them together & out popped Tonny & he has the strength & tenacity to thrive in PL.
I'd like us to sign a wideman who can actually cross a ball, so I'd look to James Ward Prowse of Southampton, would sort our free taking out for sure & and looks a real prospect Imo.
IN
CB Van Djik
LB & CB Martins Indi
CM Tonny Vilhena
RM Ward Prowse
FW Michu
Back-up gk Kevin Trapp Eint Frankfurt

OUT
Naughton
Lennon
Siggurdson
Paulinho
Townsend
____________________________________Lloris_______________________________________
_____Walker_____________Van Djik________________Verthongen____________Martins Indi
______________________________Sandro_____Vilhena__________________________________
__________Lamela____________________Michu______________________Eriksen______________
___________________________________Soldado________________________________________

Excellent scouting here, some good names for discussion. Only downside though is your list of outs as you cite four homegrowns. That just simply isn't, and cannot happen. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not sure why Lamela deserves more patience than Townsend, who is almost as young and further along in his Prem acclimatization. I'd really like to see us part with the rest though. I've no love for Paulinho, and didn't since sometime last fall when his performances weren't getting better and he was blasting shots in the box out into Jupiter's orbit.

 

[jolsnogross]

It's interesting that a number of people have identified a CB and a deep-lying midfield ballplayer who can distribute and manage the tempo (to contrast with the small town of energetic but limited midfielders we have). And then I think of Hudd and Caulker and the peanuts we have in the bank in exchange for them.

 

[jolsnogross]

I'm also surprised that a majority seem to think the defensive side of our squad is our main area needing recruitment and turnover. That seems like a serious misdiagnosis of our problems to me. We've conceded 37 league goals, and 20 of them have come in 4 games against City (x2), Liverpool, and Chelsea. Take out our recurring nightmare of shellackings this season, and we're in pretty stingy goal conceding form. What's more, I'd put a lot of blame for the shellackings on our utter disfunction going forward. The slow build up, men behind the ball, side-to side possession game that AVB inculcated in us has left us bereft of really decent attacking, in those games against the big sides and in the season generally.

Some of this stems from the change in squad structure that dictates 2 senior strikers is enough. I disagree and if Hernandez or Benteke were possible, I'd be gld if we got them becasue we need the variety in options and numbers to ensure quality through injuries, suspension, and form.

Most of it stems from the turgid AVB approach, however. I think we need to address this. I have hope for Soldado and Eriksen to become important players for us. Less hope for Lamela, but we'll see. But I still think we really need to address our attacking areas, our speed and directness in possession, our cut-and-thrust on the counter or during repeated forays forward. Transfer speculation is a bit of a fetish and I'm not all that keen to join in (having laready done so!), but if a background check on Konoplyanka came through with a thumbs up (i.e. stable character, good attitude, ambitious, team player, possible leadership qualities) then from what I've seen of him he appears to be someone who can beat a man, score a goal, cross a ball, and play effectively as a typical winger or an outside forward (in a 4-3-3). We need end product on the attacking end of the pitch and our wide men aren't producing it at all.

 

[DaSpurs]

I'm also surprised that a majority seem to think the defensive side of our squad is our main area needing recruitment and turnover. That seems like a serious misdiagnosis of our problems to me. We've conceded 37 league goals, and 20 of them have come in 4 games against City (x2), Liverpool, and Chelsea. Take out our recurring nightmare of shellackings this season, and we're in pretty stingy goal conceding form. What's more, I'd put a lot of blame for the shellackings on our utter disfunction going forward. The slow build up, men behind the ball, side-to side possession game that AVB inculcated in us has left us bereft of really decent attacking, in those games against the big sides and in the season generally.

Some of this stems from the change in squad structure that dictates 2 senior strikers is enough. I disagree and if Hernandez or Benteke were possible, I'd be gld if we got them becasue we need the variety in options and numbers to ensure quality through injuries, suspension, and form.

Most of it stems from the turgid AVB approach, however. I think we need to address this. I have hope for Soldado and Eriksen to become important players for us. Less hope for Lamela, but we'll see. But I still think we really need to address our attacking areas, our speed and directness in possession, our cut-and-thrust on the counter or during repeated forays forward. Transfer speculation is a bit of a fetish and I'm not all that keen to join in (having laready done so!), but if a background check on Konoplyanka came through with a thumbs up (i.e. stable character, good attitude, ambitious, team player, possible leadership qualities) then from what I've seen of him he appears to be someone who can beat a man, score a goal, cross a ball, and play effectively as a typical winger or an outside forward (in a 4-3-3). We need end product on the attacking end of the pitch and our wide men aren't producing it at all.

Spot on, every bit of it. The defensive problems are merely the obvious glaring sore on the surface, but many of you simply are not looking deeper as to what are the causes for why they're so relentlessly exposed against sides we should be dominating. How many times have we played far inferior opposition, and many have said, "If (x player) could finish, we'd be down 4-0." Part of that is true, but part of it is also that despite some obvious mistakes, our defenders have made some very fine saves in our defensive thirds to salvage our points for the league. The problem is higher up the pitch, in this there is no doubt.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

like we sold and replaced Keane

Depends who you mean though. I'd have Sandro as a nailed on starter, but after that?

Dembele shows up one in three games (if that). Paulinho shows glimpses here and there, but again he's not been consistent. I wouldn't mind seeing Eriksen in a midfield 3, but his strengths seem to be further forward. Capoue is a player I rate highly, but again there are big question marks. Bentaleb seems two or three years off being the sort of player we need.

If we're playing a midfield three, I'd like to see us hold on to Capoue as backup for Sandro, who'd play behind Paulinho and a new passing midfielder with Bentaleb and Holtby in reserve.

Sell Dembele if the right offer comes in.

 

[whitelanefever]

Excellent scouting here, some good names for discussion. Only downside though is your list of outs as you cite four homegrowns. That just simply isn't, and cannot happen. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not sure why Lamela deserves more patience than Townsend, who is almost as young and further along in his Prem acclimatization. I'd really like to see us part with the rest though. I've no love for Paulinho, and didn't since sometime last fall when his performances weren't getting better and he was blasting shots in the box out into Jupiter's orbit.

The rules for homegrown players is different between Premier Lg & Uefa competition so it's not a problem at all, I know there was some ITK saying we were short of Homegrown players, that is bogus, the FA rules state you can name a maximum of 17 players from foreign nationality that are over 21 & the homegrown rule has nothing to do been English because if a player has spent 36 months prior to his 21st birthday in any academy in English or Welsh association regardless of nationality they are regarded as homegrown, so in theory you could have 25 foreign players as long as 8 of them over 21 had been schooled in an academy in England or Wales, for example under FA rules Cesc Fabergas was counted as homegrown for PL & Uefa competition when he played for Arsenal however since he moved to Barcelona he counts as homegrown under Spanish Fa & foreign under Uefa rules having already been registered within another country association as homegrown.
If we signed Vilhena, he's 19 at the moment, so he doesn't have to be named in 25 man squad & again he's 22 he would count with FA as homegrown however not with Uefa.
The rules are easily got around, Arsenal named 5 homegrown players last year with PL & 2 of those were foreign Bendtner & Scezney, the likes of Chamberlaine don't have to be named. Chelsea have been getting around the rules with Uefa for years, they will register an academy player in there Uefa competition list, then once he's registered loan him out.
the best way to look at it is your allowed a maximum of 17 players over 21 of foreign nationality who have not been schooled in an academy in England or Wales.
So with the signings our 17 would be.
1 Lloris, 2 Trapp, 3 Vlad, 4 Kaboul, 5 Jan, 6 Van DJIK, 7 Indi, 8 Sandro, 9 Capoue, 10 Dembele, 11 Holtby, 12 Eriksen, 13 Chadli, 14 Lamela, 15 Michu, 16 Ade, 17 Soldado

our 8 for euro competition
Archer, walker, dawson, rose, fryers, fredericks, ward-prowse, Carroll, Kane, Bentelab, Veljkovic, Pritchard, Mason, Munns,Ceballos, Mckevoy
take your pick

 

[DaSpurs]

The rules for homegrown players is different between Premier Lg & Uefa competition so it's not a problem at all, I know there was some ITK saying we were short of Homegrown players, that is bogus, the FA rules state you can name a maximum of 17 players from foreign nationality that are over 21 & the homegrown rule has nothing to do been English because if a player has spent 36 months prior to his 21st birthday in any academy in English or Welsh association regardless of nationality they are regarded as homegrown, so in theory you could have 25 foreign players as long as 8 of them over 21 had been schooled in an academy in England or Wales, for example under FA rules Cesc Fabergas was counted as homegrown for PL & Uefa competition when he played for Arsenal however since he moved to Barcelona he counts as homegrown under Spanish Fa & foreign under Uefa rules having already been registered within another country association as homegrown.
If we signed Vilhena, he's 19 at the moment, so he doesn't have to be named in 25 man squad & again he's 22 he would count with FA as homegrown however not with Uefa.
The rules are easily got around, Arsenal named 5 homegrown players last year with PL & 2 of those were foreign Bendtner & Scezney, the likes of Chamberlaine don't have to be named. Chelsea have been getting around the rules with Uefa for years, they will register an academy player in there Uefa competition list, then once he's registered loan him out.
the best way to look at it is your allowed a maximum of 17 players over 21 of foreign nationality who have not been schooled in an academy in England or Wales.
So with the signings our 17 would be.
1 Lloris, 2 Trapp, 3 Vlad, 4 Kaboul, 5 Jan, 6 Van DJIK, 7 Indi, 8 Sandro, 9 Capoue, 10 Dembele, 11 Holtby, 12 Eriksen, 13 Chadli, 14 Lamela, 15 Michu, 16 Ade, 17 Soldado

our 8 for euro competition
Archer, walker, dawson, rose, fryers, fredericks, ward-prowse, Carroll, Kane, Bentelab, Veljkovic, Pritchard, Mason, Munns,Ceballos, Mckevoy
take your pick

Haha a highly informative post, great stuff for folks who need some clarification of the homegrown rules. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out. I am aware of the technicalities though, and even then I think we'd be cutting it close without going young. Too many too young however, and we run the risk of sacrificing experience and grit for potential. Six of our seven signings last year were under 25. I'm hoping for only additions that will be immediate and successful contributors, and for that to happen the most likely scenario is a few tested gentlemen in their mid-20's, such as Konoplyanka.

 

[dondo]

I don't agree with this notion that we need to sell 5-6. How about we give our new signings a chance to settle? Unless you're advocating selling the players like Lennon, Dawson, Naughton, Townsend etc.. then you might have a point...

Its townsend first season in our squad on a regular basis too maybe we should give him a season to settle as well?

 

[rabbikeane]

Yep, he is exactly what we need, we are in talks with him, he wants to come, something is going to go wrong. Mourinho will probably sign him some how.

Take it you said that as a joke, but I wouldn't put it past Chelsea and Abramovic to do this and have LVG as their U23 manager with the new U23 Premier League coming in. After all Frank Arnesen settled for being a scout for kids in stead of being our supremo #1 when he saw enough money on the table.

 

[dondo]

New lb cd cm playmakera nd back up keeper. Replacements for lloris and verts to if they go

 

[Lighty64]

Depends who you mean though. I'd have Sandro as a nailed on starter, but after that?

Dembele shows up one in three games (if that). Paulinho shows glimpses here and there, but again he's not been consistent. I wouldn't mind seeing Eriksen in a midfield 3, but his strengths seem to be further forward. Capoue is a player I rate highly, but again there are big question marks. Bentaleb seems two or three years off being the sort of player we need.

i know he had a spell out with sending off and an injury, but Paulinho hasn't had a proper rest. the season in Brazil started in May. unfortunately this season he has the World Cup, but still feel he will be tons better next season

 

[spurs9]

The rules for homegrown players is different between Premier Lg & Uefa competition so it's not a problem at all, I know there was some ITK saying we were short of Homegrown players, that is bogus, the FA rules state you can name a maximum of 17 players from foreign nationality that are over 21 & the homegrown rule has nothing to do been English because if a player has spent 36 months prior to his 21st birthday in any academy in English or Welsh association regardless of nationality they are regarded as homegrown, so in theory you could have 25 foreign players as long as 8 of them over 21 had been schooled in an academy in England or Wales, for example under FA rules Cesc Fabergas was counted as homegrown for PL & Uefa competition when he played for Arsenal however since he moved to Barcelona he counts as homegrown under Spanish Fa & foreign under Uefa rules having already been registered within another country association as homegrown.
If we signed Vilhena, he's 19 at the moment, so he doesn't have to be named in 25 man squad & again he's 22 he would count with FA as homegrown however not with Uefa.
The rules are easily got around, Arsenal named 5 homegrown players last year with PL & 2 of those were foreign Bendtner & Scezney, the likes of Chamberlaine don't have to be named. Chelsea have been getting around the rules with Uefa for years, they will register an academy player in there Uefa competition list, then once he's registered loan him out.
the best way to look at it is your allowed a maximum of 17 players over 21 of foreign nationality who have not been schooled in an academy in England or Wales.
So with the signings our 17 would be.
1 Lloris, 2 Trapp, 3 Vlad, 4 Kaboul, 5 Jan, 6 Van DJIK, 7 Indi, 8 Sandro, 9 Capoue, 10 Dembele, 11 Holtby, 12 Eriksen, 13 Chadli, 14 Lamela, 15 Michu, 16 Ade, 17 Soldado

our 8 for euro competition
Archer, walker, dawson, rose, fryers, fredericks, ward-prowse, Carroll, Kane, Bentelab, Veljkovic, Pritchard, Mason, Munns,Ceballos, Mckevoy
take your pick

If we sign Vilhena at 19, he won't count as HG when he is 22. They have to be here for 3 years when they hit 21, so they need to sign as 18 or younger to count as HG in the future.