Tottenham vs Liverpool: Match Thread

[Wheeler Dealer]

I'm not surprised about yesterdays result, as our squad has changed very little over the summer, albeit a couple of bargains from the continent and a left back from Swansea. The reality is that we are probably the 6th best team in the league, meaning that 5 teams are superior to us, and one of those teams is Liverpool and the consequence of this fact is that they had a comfortable win against us, because they have better players and invested wisely over the past two years.

Unfortunately cash is king in the modern game and unless you wish to play at the top table, you will be left behind as the gap widens. This is our issue and if we have no intention or resource to close the gap, we all need to reduce our expectations to a more realistic level.

I for one, was optimistic for the season and believe in the long run Poch will prove to be a good appointment, but we have to give him the correct tools to let him flourish and my concern is that we won't or can't

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Well that was just awful, what a shambles of a performance to a man. Credit to Liverpool, and in particular Sterling who is a superb little player. Still don't rate their defence and in the few times we managed to put them under pressure Sakho and Lovren showed they can be 'got at'. Balotelli, if he plays in that same vain will be a quality signing and not a clusterfuck like I first thought.

We were awful, genuinely awful, slow, lethargic, sloppy, just a terrible performance. Eriksen awful, Lamela cumbersome, Capoue and Bentaleb very, very bad.

Two weeks to put it right and a much better showing needed against Sunderland.

 

[Makkaveli101]

All the problems we had last season are still evident. As other's have said in this thread, we seem to lack the mentality. Players just seem too 'laid back'. Give the ball away constantly. I can't remember a Spurs side that gifts the ball away so sloppily. The way our heads drop when we're on the cosh is embarrassing. I'm not looking forward to meeting the likes of Chelsea, Man Citeh, (and I hate to say it), ARSEnal...over 90 minutes they will get so many chances and pump goals past us.

Fazio needs to start. Kaboul can warm the bench. Townsend is a liability. Vertonghen is over-rated. Lloris's distribution is awful in a Spurs shirt. It's like none of them think before they act.

There seems to be an air of 'party time' in the player's heads. That split second of relaxation and not taking things too seriously, costs us. Kyle Walker and Sandro's silly pranks are windows into this mentality at the club, and it's those vital seconds of not taking things too seriously that costs us.

Top four? Not a chance. Europa League winners? Not a chance. You can neg rate this all you want, but it's only the truth.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Sooooo...Bentaleb, with the most experience of the youngsters, is not ready, but we should have used more youngsters.

I don't know, ever heard of the subs bench? Playing in the cups?

I don't know, rather than having players with no brains or footballing intelligence on the bench, how about letting the younger players have a shot coming off the bench.

Yeah, Bentaleb is not ready for a starting 11 in PL, I think some time coming on a sub, or playing in the cups would do him a world of good. He is just making far to many big mistakes at the moment, but guy has shown he has the ability, just needs to reduce the number of big mistakes.

So what was so confusing about what I said?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I don't know, ever heard of the subs bench? Playing in the cups?

I don't know, rather than having players with no brains or footballing intelligence on the bench, how about letting the younger players have a shot coming off the bench.

Yeah, Bentaleb is not ready for a starting 11 in PL, I think some time coming on a sub, or playing in the cups would do him a world of good. He is just making far to many big mistakes at the moment, but guy has shown he has the ability, just needs to reduce the number of big mistakes.

So what was so confusing about what I said?

Who were the youngsters you were so impressed with on the pre-season tour?

 

[TheGreenLily]

Who were the youngsters you were so impressed with on the pre-season tour?

The one who stood out for me and should most certainly have been given a chance was Ceballos, I would have given Falque a chance, but we sold him.

But Ceballos is the one I am surprised to not see playing in some capacity, whether it be from the bench in the cups games. He was positive, he clearly had some footballing intelligence and looked more comfortable playing in pooches style, than some of our more senior players.

 

[dagraham]

Yesterday unfortunately confirmed a few things. We do not have enough quality or pace in the final third or enough game changers on the bench to call upon. It's all very well having a deep squad with 400 CM's, but how many of them are of the required quality?

I didn't expect to beat Liverpool but I did expect us to give their defence a bit more to worry about. Instead they had a very easy day at the office.

Unfortunately Liverpool were better than us in every department, including tactically. They knew all they had to do was deny space to Lamela and Erkisen and our threat was nullified. Not only were they better on the ball than us, they were better off it, executing a pressing game far better than we did.

The two things that concerned we the most though was the fact that as soon as the second went in we had zero belief and that we had no plan b whatsoever.

Now I'm not slating Poch already but this was one of the main talking points about his management. The only time Liverpools defence looked troubled was the ball over the top. However, at 2 and 3-0 down we just kept on playing the same way, getting absolutely nowhere, without even considering putting Kane on with Ade and giving the Liverpool back four something to think about.

I'm sure this season we will beat the average teams more convincingly than last season, but we are no nearer the top teams and this wont change until we can make improvements to the first 11, not just buy squad players that are "good value".

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The one who stood out for me and should most certainly have been given a chance was Ceballos, I would have given Falque a chance, but we sold him.

But Ceballos is the one I am surprised to not see playing in some capacity, whether it be from the bench in the cups games. He was positive, he clearly had some footballing intelligence and looked more comfortable playing in pooches style, than some of our more senior players.

There must be something though, I cant see why Poch would just cast them aside if they had impressed him. I think it's dangerous to get sucked in by pre-season games against dross, but I am potentially surprised why we haven't seen people like Mason/Ceballos on the bench at least ahead of Townsend for example. I never rated Falque so not with you on that one, and Bentaleb for me was better than Capoue (although still pretty poor) yesterday.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Unless something dramatic happens today then I think for once those in charge need to be open and honest about their intentions. The investment in the team over recent years has been minimal. If Bale wasn't sold last year the spending would've been negligent.People keep assuming 'it's because we've got a ground to pay for' but the club have never said that. They go on about 'top 4' but in reality that's not backed up by actions. I renewed a season ticket in May on the belief that the team would be strengthened, but so far it hasn't been to anywhere close to the required level. That yesterday was unacceptable. You can bleat on all you like about the Poch plan, give him time etc but that was a pathetic performance at home in a big match. I wouldn't expect it from far lesser clubs. It's not Poch's fault either. What I'm sure he now knows is that he's inherited a squad that is chronically lacking in real quality but what's worse is most of the players think they're far, far better than they are.

Typical modern football fan.

No fucking patience... Liverpool had a season like this in the Brendan Rodgers first year...

I know, I know, why don't we go out and spend £250 million on players every year and pay £250k a week in wages and push the club into unmanageable and unsustainable debt. So in a few years time, when are all supporting Arsenal, because Spurs went bankrupt, you can say you got season tickets worth.

The team has been strengthened, the defence is going to look a lot better and balanced once it is settled. Lamela is improving, even yesterday he never gave up and still tried to be positive, despite nothing coming off for him.

We have plenty of quality within the squad, we just have fans like you, who have no patience and expect us to buy the fucking league every year, so you can get your monies worth.

 

[Ndombers]

Awful performance. We came up against a front line that scared the shit out of our team and they reverted to type, no movement, no urgency, no belief. I think we need a hardnut like Fazio to put some (healthy) fear into our own players as much as the opposition.

The state of English football is a sad one, players that can't read the game or even pass the ball, FFS. All pace and power and no brains. The Townsend mistake as soon as he came on was unforgiveable. Rose is just a terrible footballer, whenever we're on the counter attack I groan when he receives the ball because I know the attack is as good as over. Not many other English players to single out yesterday but in Lennon, Walker and to a lesser degree (IMO) Bentaleb and Naughton we have a handful of technically poor footballers.

Eric Dier had a baptism of fire yesterday and has a long way to go, but for me has displayed signs of quality that the aforementioned players will never come close to. Cheers, Portugal.

And even some of the gifted foreigners like Dembele seem to have had the quality somehow triained out of them. Got to wonder why players like Pienaar and Sigurdsson return to their former clubs the same superstars they were before they joined us?

Ade's first touch is appalling, he's unfit, still doesn't understand the offside rule and just isn't reliable enough to be our focal point in attack. We need shot of him ASAP, Daniel Levy is delusional if the striker department remains unchanged by the end of today. I'd much rather see Kane starting game in, game out - paradoxically an English player that is showing very promising signs of having a 'footballing brain'. What's the worst that could have happened if he had started over Ade yesterday, we don't score any goals?

Lamela had a bad game but I have high hopes for him. Its clear he wants to be central to our attacks, our playmaker. Reminded a bit of Modric the way he drifts towards the centre and tries to spray the ball around a bit. Not easy with static movement. He's always looking for the one-two, hopefully other players will start to put more faith in him and look to feed him the ball more often. Is it just me or does Townsend avoid giving the ball to Lamela? I don't know, maybe I'm just a fanboy.

Anyways, there's loads wrong and obviously this is not Mo Po's fault. He needs to smash the team that we were (are) and build up from scratch. Hope he's as good as most people thinks he is.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Don't think it's fair just because you don't agree that you question my personal approach as a supporter. Patience? The club haven't shown much have they? If we have so much quality, why are we trying to shift so many players? If that from Lamela was good enough for you, then fine. I thought it was the way he almost always plays, pretty average. As for 'not giving up', Lennon has always worked hard for Tottenham but gets dogs abuse. Like it or not, it's down to quality. I don't expect us to win the league but the gap between that and where we are compared to a few years ago is alarming. If you can't see that, that's fine, but the gap will only get bigger.

That is hilarious, always worked hard...

You just stand there Lennon, just stand there, and a little later there is another camera shot and his is walking back.

 

[TheGreenLily]

There must be something though, I cant see why Poch would just cast them aside if they had impressed him. I think it's dangerous to get sucked in by pre-season games against dross, but I am potentially surprised why we haven't seen people like Mason/Ceballos on the bench at least ahead of Townsend for example. I never rated Falque so not with you on that one, and Bentaleb for me was better than Capoue (although still pretty poor) yesterday.

I think there is something and without sounding like a conspiracy nut, I think Poochs hands are tied a little.

I just can't understand why we keep giving so many chances to players that keep on making the same mistakes over and over again and failing to live up to expectations. The managers change but too many players haven't...

It is just frustrating that we are not giving a single chance to some very promising looking youngsters, by persisting with players that constantly fail to live up to expectation, year after year.

 

[lenny7]

Big test this one, if we can escape the absolute smashing we took last time out (pretty confident we will), I'll be happy.

I'm really shit at predictions.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Well what a difference a week and having to play a good team makes. After an easy start to the season, yesterday's game came as something of shock to the same bunch who trounced an abject QPR last week. Liverpool played the perfect away game I hate to say; let us have the ball, we passed it and passed it and passed it around, as soon as we get in the final 3rd they pressed and we ran out of cutting edge... whereas by contrast they had Sturridge, Sterling and Balotelli causing our back four no end of bother. When Danny Rose can't close down and catch Jordan Henderson then you know something is up. Which is a shame because Rose was one of the better (and by better I mean less shite) players today.

Dier is a CB, not a RB, and an inexperienced one as it goes. So not picking up Sterling is a by product of that. But then Liverpools front 3 were everything that our 4 weren't... dynamic, pacey, and supporting each other. By contrast Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli were plodding and unimaginative. Eriksen was dire, being everywhere where the ball wasn't, Lamela was on the ball a lot but was slow in his decisions and broke out the slowest set of step overs this side of Peter Crouch. Chadli wasn't even shite, he just had zero impact on the game. At least he got our solitary shot on target, which he elected to try and drive straight down the keepers' throat. A foot or two either side... well, whatever. Adebayor just needs to shoot more. Was not strong enough, and should have drilled it in rather than attempt the lob when clear through.

In the end though, that penalty knocked the wind out of our sails. As hilariously terrible a dive as it was, Dier fell foul of his lack of experience and the way the premier league is these days. Heads dropped after that, and the response was to bring on the even slower Dembele, and the so-one-dimensional-if-he-stands-sideways-on-to-you-he-becomes-near-invisible Andros... rather than a second striker and just start pummeling the penalty area like teams who actually want to win do. And of course it was Townsend's dreadful Cruyff attempt that gave Moreno the clear daylight to run into and score. Although the equally plodding Capoue failed entirely to get across to cover, letting the game and midfielders pass him by like he did most of the afternoon.

In the end it was just same old same old lapdance football that has been a mainstay at the Lane for donkeys years, rearing its ugly head again. All build up, no penetration... while the other team have no problems going right ahead and fucking us. All the pressing from the last 4 games had disappeared, all the incisiveness of last week withered away, and Kaboul is back to his old self of being about as trustworthy in possession as a 9 year old with an Uzi. Pochettino just worked out how tough this job actually is, and is probably looking at November already.

 

[Jimmypearce7]

Liverpool were better than us, we have to build etc so i can be patient but the reality is we have fallen further behind the top clubs this summer and the thought of getting taken to the cleaners every time we play one of them is depressing.

 

[OnTheUp]

I am suggesting it is MoPo's fault.
We have a fantastic squad. MoPo has selected the right team and the right system so far-but he got it massively wrong today.
If we get stuffed again it will be his fault.

Mopo sent the team out with the completely wrong attitude. In interviews he was saying how they were treating it as just another game. For me that was reflected in how our players played. No urgency and no fight. Liverpool in contrast chased everything, fought fiercely for every ball and that was the difference. If Mopo had fired the team up and sent them out with desire I still think we'd have won yesterday.Talent wise Liverpool are not better than us.

I've liked what I've seen from Mopo so far but any more embarrassments like yesterday and that opinion is going to change quickly.

 

[Gassin's finest]

TBF, the goals conceded were the direct results of individual mistakes and surrendering possession in compromising positions (stop sniggering at the back), and a cheating ****. Switch off for a second at this level and you will be punished.

Doesn't excuse our age old problem of being unable to finish clear chances.

 

[parj]

i think we need to assess where the match was actually won...in midfield. Their central 3, which is how they played, chased all over the pitch WITH URGENCY. The only Spurs player not in defence to do that was Lamela, not loads, but a hell of a lot more than the other midfielders and attackers. Capoue and Bentaleb should be the engines of the team tearing up the opposition play but they just didnt. Henderson was better that both of them by some distance, as was Allen. Capoue was lost for the second and jogging for the third. Thats why we need a player like Schneiderlin - Urgency.

Hopefully this dude from Montpellier can do that role. Also need Dembele starting. he can carry the ball, just need Poch to run along side him to tell him when to pass the ball.

 

[hodsgod]

That is hilarious, always worked hard...

You just stand there Lennon, just stand there, and a little later there is another camera shot and his is walking back.

I never noticed that yesterday, what an awful decision by Lennon he made it so easy for him.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I don't think there is any need whatsoever for that term being used when discussing a game of football. Call me old fashioned but if your too illiterate to put together an argument without using the word "rape" as way to describe a defeat, then just do not post at all.

Cool your jets mate, it is just a word.

There is no such thing as a bad word, context is king.



Fearing and banning words is what is obscene, not someone using it in an entirely innocuous setting.