VDV left because of bad start with AVB?

[gregga]

I loved Rafa, loved his insane moments of talent, his hatred of the scum, even him huffing and puffing around like an enthusiastic fat Labrador after 60 minutes.

But reading those quotes makes me glad he's gone. We've seen that we have an excellent team spirit, perhaps in part down to the fact that everyone feels like they have a chance and they're all valued. I don't get the feeling that would be the case if we currently had a sulky VDV here mouthing off to the press as he's done in the past (who would have LOVED some ammunition to use against AVB) and generally stinking up the place with a bad attitude because AVB didn't think he was a special snowflake.

That would have tarnished all the brilliant things he did for us. As it is, I think we all won - VDV got to go back to Hamburg where he's adored, we're thriving too.

I don't think for a second that Rafa would have stunk up the place.

In fact, VDV said himself that AVB changed his mind but by then it was too late as he'd been wooed by Hamburg who had pursued him all summer.

VDV adored Hamburg and his wife worked in Germany, which was taking a toll on his marriage. VDV loved Spurs though and thought he was wanted and our star player. As such Hamburg's wooing hadn't quite turned his head, despite having been publicly ongoing for weeks, if not months. When interviewed early in the summer, VDV had not denied the Hamburg rumours, and only said something along the lines of 'for now I think I will be with Spurs next season'. He never flat out denied he might go there.

Then when AVB comes in he makes clear that VDV isn't a guaranteed starter, and that Sigg will be competing for his favoured position. A little rash on AVB's part maybe, but I think he felt he needed to establish his authority over the club's senior players, which is understandable.

Once VDV realised that he wasn't indispensible to Spurs he felt less loved and the Hamburg offer seemed that much more attractive as he was still a god over there. I imagine then words were had with Levy, and VDV realised that the former would love to be able to make a profit on a player rapidly approaching his thirties. This reinforced the perceived lack of love from the Spurs heirarchy, and accelerated his decision to choose Hamburg over Spurs.

I can't begrudge VDV for thinking that way, although perhaps he was being a bit precious. I'm also a little disappointed in AVB for not having more faith in VDV, as he really was amazing for Spurs. Ultimately though I think that if Levy had just told Hamburg where to go, VDV would have stayed and established himself in AVB's side, especially given that Dempsey and so far Siggurdson have been pale shadows of the masterful playmaker and goalscorer that VDV was and is.

 

[garyhopkins]

Whenever anything negative appears people say don't worry, no quotes. Now we have an instance where we have quotes, but people don't believe what has been said. Yes, we don't know the full details of the interview, but what they have printed seems clear enough:

VDV felt more needed at Hamburg and decided to leave. He had been "the guy" and felt he was more likely to be "the guy" at Hamburg. However, he still likes us.

 

[Dempsey2]

That was then, this is now. He has gone, we are still 3rd. Maybe AVB was right.

Bearing in mind the fee we had, his injuries this season and the problems in his private life, I feel the timing of his departure was just about right.

Please lets bear in mind that Bale has, IMO, benefitted from VDV leaving as he has now got the free role.

He was great for those two seasons though

The hypocrisy! And I can't believe 9 others agree! Complaining about needing a new Modric and VDV all season, now Bale is on the run of his life and all of a sudden it's a "free role". So which one is it?

I know it's typical football forum stuff to magically bend ones opinion around a bunch of obstacles as they come up, but this one takes the cake.

 

[Dempsey2]

I don't think we replaced him in January. Holtby looks like he'll be a great player for us, but he's not a VDV replacement for me.

Oddly enough I think we may have accidentally replaced VDV (at least temporarily) when we signed Dempsey.

Now put the pitch-forks down and hear me out. When we signed Dempsey he was a player with a fantastic record playing at LM for Fulham. Obviously Bale was our automatic LM so any other position for Dempsey was in his less played positions.

I'm not saying that Dempsey hasn't been disappointing, and I'm certainly not saying he's a VDV replacement, however with Bale essentially taking the VDV role I'd say that, based on the performances over the last few seasons, Dempsey is actually one of the best performing players in that position.

Bring on the negs you mother puss buckets.

Good points. Dempsey plays on the left, never in the middle, so I don't know how he gets criticism for playing a position he's never played in his career. If anything he should be commended for holding it down and getting some big goals in a position he doesn't fit.

VDV role is an odd role cause any guy can't just play it with ease. That's a Silva, Sneijder role, and realistically how many of those types of players are out there?

 

[Nocando]

Dempsey plays on the left, never in the middle, so I don't know how he gets criticism for playing a position he's never played in his career. If anything he should be commended for holding it down and getting some big goals in a position he doesn't fit.

VDV role is an odd role cause any guy can't just play it with ease. That's a Silva, Sneijder role, and realistically how many of those types of players are out there?

For your overt Dempsey adulation you do make quite a good few points . It's just a case looking past the Desmpey stuff.

 

[Lo Amo Speroni]

The hypocrisy! And I can't believe 9 others agree! Complaining about needing a new Modric and VDV all season, now Bale is on the run of his life and all of a sudden it's a "free role". So which one is it?

I know it's typical football forum stuff to magically bend ones opinion around a bunch of obstacles as they come up, but this one takes the cake.

I think you will find I have never complained about needing a new Modric or VDV. Whilst I would like to see an inventive player in the midfield I have not been crying out for Levy to spend spend spend. I have given my support throughout to AVB and predicted the longer the season went on the better we would become.

The point I was making is it is pointless to look back at what we had but to enjoy what we have now. Bale is playing with far more freedom than he had last season, a freedom that VDV enjoyed. It is my view that he is playing better than VDV did with the same freedom.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Sorry if this has already been said, but the OP article smacks of the famed dutch petulance in ol' Rafa there. New manager, has to judge everyone on merit, fair enough I say. Dawson was practically sold to QPR but decided to stay, fight for his place, and now he's de-facto captain.

Sad, but no player is bigger than the club, yada yada...

 

[txspurs]

Something that people keep saying here is bugging me. VDV wasn't fit during preseason. He and Walker trained away from the rest in Baltimore. Perhaps this has more to do with why Sig got chosen over him. AVB tried a lot of combos and young players in preseason. He knew VDV's qualities just like he knew Lloris'. The way this article reads VDV didnt think he needed to fight for his spot. AVB was willing to let Daws go but he stayed to fight for his spot and now AVB has come out and said Daws has earned his spot in the squad.

I loved VDV in a Spurs shirt and I was as sad as anyone else when he and Modric left. The one thing I have learned from you folks is that no man is bigger than the club so we should just thank him for his good service and carry on.

Side note Dempsey2 you are wrong Dempsey has played in the hole for the USMNT and he did a few times for Fullham. Klinsman has some wacky formations and Dempsey has been played in at least 4 different positions. I won't say he excelled in all of them but he's never hidden from the responsibility of being a team leader.

 

[parklane1]

People really should be more wary of the media by now, the usual old story of headline exaggerating what is supposed to have been said. There is no reference of what questions were asked, and it looks like someone has took the qoutes from Dutch or English and stuck them into Google translate then reworded to make sence. No where does he say he dadn't get on with Andre and as BC says it seems to say one thing and then another, a lot of BS.

Indeed, and why i said earler that the articule was rubbish.

 

[guiltyparty]

Inevitable this would stir up the usual pro and anti AVB debate. Quite how people rush to condemn AVB now, frankly I have no idea

And if the worst he did was say he had to fight for his place, well...

VDV: ace player but was always the one alongside Adebayor you suspected had the ego to upset the AVB apple cart.

Perhaps lesser of two evils, we'll never know

 

[davidmatzdorf]

The article looks sound enough to me and the quotes look relatively unedited and reasonably convincing.

Mainly I agree with gregga's long post above, but it strikes me that no one has mentioned what to me is an obvious factor: it's not so much that VDV had a problem with AVB, it's that he had a particularly close and intense relationship with Redknapp, whose ego-burnishing abilities were never stronger than when he had a 'flair' player to coach.

It's easy to forget, now that AVB has imposed his own system and style and has the team achieving good results, but quite a few of the players were stunned and upset that Redknapp was removed. They said the right things at the time, but it wasn't too hard to see which players were the most affected. They tended to be the players who needed careful emotional management: VDV, Adebayor and Assou-Ekotto (Benny less so, if only because he's a bit 'What? Me worry?' by nature).

Everyone seems to be on board with the new regime now, but it wasn't so last August. VDV had an offer from Hamburg with much to recommend it and the manager for whom he loved to work had been replaced by someone whom he scarcely knew, who is only about 5 years older than he is and whose first move was to tell him he had to fight for his place. So he took the offer.

I said all last Autumn, when we were in transition and the results were showing it, that if AVB had seriously wanted VDV to stay, he would not have let Levy accept Hamburg's offer. Back then, it was a serious problem, a mistake. Now we are coping well with his absence, but our football still misses his input.

 

[Greenspur]

The hypocrisy! And I can't believe 9 others agree! Complaining about needing a new Modric and VDV all season, now Bale is on the run of his life and all of a sudden it's a "free role". So which one is it?

I know it's typical football forum stuff to magically bend ones opinion around a bunch of obstacles as they come up, but this one takes the cake.

Don't you mean "Takes the biscuit"?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Don't you mean "Takes the biscuit"?

Transatlantic difference in idioms.

 

[pook]

i posted something to this effect back in august (or maybe early september), but i'll throw it out there again.

my pal vinnie, from frankfurt, is a prof at the local uni (here in the states), and he spends his summers at home, but comes back for fall semester in august. when the subject went to VDV upon vinnie's return, he said he'd seen VDV interviewed (in german) since returning to HSV, and that he'd said that he'd not planned on leaving spurs, but AVB had pretty much told him that he'd struggle for minutes. that is what made him consider options and, when combined with HSV's offer, was enough to tip the scale.

i'd provide vinnie's source, if i had any idea what it was; but there's no reason, to my mind, to doubt what he said. he's not spurs or HSV, and would have no reason to fabricate it. and if VDV were to be disingenuous, you'd expect him to have taken a more 'i just had to come back to hambug' line, as opposed to 'i'd've been happy to stay at spurs, but ...'.

at any rate, take that for what it's worth. but this article comes as no shock to me.

 

[Wardy]

God I miss VDV...