Which of these scenarios would you take?

[$hoguN]

This is not even a choice really, the main objective this season has always been to guarentee ourselves CL football again next season, option one gives that whereas option two does not, so for me its straightforward

 

[MattyP]

Finishing 4th isn't 'guaranteeing progress' it is progress. For a start, being in the CL AGAIN and having handled ourselves so eye-catchingly well this time out, that IS going to make us more attractive to potential top-line signings in the Summer. Secondly, if you have been reading threads, you would know that this year's performances in the CL have been winning us global attraction, and this will continue with continued qualification.

All of your arguments are STILL based on the notion that reaching the final, ala the hypothetical question, equates to winning the trophy - it doesn't. Failing to win it and failing to qualify for the CL via league position could very well equal terminal decline. Finishing 4th DOES = progress. I refuse to accept any of your arguments asa valid, until you begin to weigh of the possibility of winning the final, as you persist in waxing lyrical about, with the possibility of losing the final, not qualifying for the CL, and suffering a decline.

I repeat, if it was posited that we would WIN the final it would be a no-brainer as we would also be qualifying for the CL next year.

I can read thanks, I do understand the choices that were given. I've not been posting equating us to win it, of course that's a no brainer.

I'm posting that I believe the chance of appearing in the final, win or lose, is a chance worth having.

I'd get my day out at Wembley either way. I would tell the grandchildren I was there whether we won or not. I would cry either way, tears of joy or tears of sadness. But I will always be able to say I was there.

As for terminal decline, why so meodramatic. We're financially well run, we don't set our budgets on the assumption of qualifying for the champions league. If your point holds true, then the first season we don't qualify for the champions league we'd be in terminal decline. May as well give up now then.

 

[CosmicHotspur]

As for delaying gratification, haven't we been doing that for a very long time now?

Current success and glory could hardly be called instant gratification!

 

[mano-obe]

Football is all about winning medals so I'd want a final. We can beat any side on our day and making a final is a once in a lifetime opportunity. At least we'd still have a chance of making the competition again if we won

 

[brett.spurs]

This is not even a choice really, the main objective this season has always been to guarentee ourselves CL football again next season, option one gives that whereas option two does not, so for me its straightforward

Option 2 can give us that though, and a place in the history books, something to define the current team by and the biggest honour in the club's history. In 20 years time no one is going to care that we finished 3rd in the league are they?

 

[WhiteStripe]

Option 2 can give us that though, and a place in the history books, something to define the current team by and the biggest honour in the club's history. In 20 years time no one is going to care that we finished 3rd in the league are they?

The fundamental point being can, not will.

As for your second point, you would be happy with winning the CL and then tottering back off into mid table mediocrity (a possibility)?

In 20 years I believe we would be in a better position given option A than option B plus defeat.

 

[brett.spurs]

That would work if there wasn't 5 other sides in the same league as us fighting it out for CL places, finishing 3rd gives us CL football again but guarentees very little else.

 

[WhiteStripe]

That would work if there wasn't 5 other sides in the same league as us fighting it out for CL places, finishing 3rd gives us CL football again but guarentees very little else.

It guarantees CL revenue the next year. It guarantees CL experience for another year. It guarantees CL gate receipts for another year. I guarantees CL football for the players for another year. It guarantees an added pull in the transfer market for another year.

It guarantees a hell of a lot more than a lost final would.

 

[$hoguN]

It guarantees CL revenue the next year. It guarantees CL experience for another year. It guarantees CL gate receipts for another year. I guarantees CL football for the players for another year. It guarantees an added pull in the transfer market for another year.

It guarantees a hell of a lot more than a lost final would.

It would also give our lads a much bigger confidence boost than losing a CL final would.

 

[WhiteStripe]

It would also give our lads a much bigger confidence boost than losing a CL final would.

To Arsenal, on penalties. I'd rather go out now. :lol:

 

[brett.spurs]

And on the flip side think what it would do for the club to win the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, it would well and truly put us on the map. Are you all assuming that finishing 3rd means a CL final is just around the corner anyway?

It would be the biggest day in the history of the club, I can't believe anyone would turn that down.

 

[WhiteStripe]

And on the flip side think what it would do for the club to win the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, it would well and truly put us on the map. Are you all assuming that finishing 3rd means a CL final is just around the corner anyway?

It would be the biggest day in the history of the club, I can't believe anyone would turn that down.

The question isn't about winning though, and taking all possible permeatations out of it, I have to go for the option that GUARANTEES we progress as a club.

 

[brett.spurs]

But it doesn't guarentee progress.

 

[AngerManagement]

If we won it of course that would be the best thing that ever happened to our club.

Option 2 guarantees us nothing

option 1 is the safe bet as it gets us back in the CL next year and provides us a platform for continued growth and progression as a club (helps keep our current crop of players happy and gives us a better chance of signing the players we need to reach the next level)

Option 2 comes with the glamour of an extented CL run and a place in the showcase event that is the final, but its an all or nothing option, you have the chance to win BIG but also risk having nothing where option one offers something but not as much (although you can't lose)

Who remembers the club that came thrid? no one, but then who remembers who lost the final? or who cares about that club?

Does anyone care Arsenal lost a CL final before? or Chelsea for that matter?

Option 2 is wonderful if it pays of but lose the final and it is worthless.

Option one is the safe bet so it depends how much of a gambler you are.

Personally for a club in our current position I'd say maintaining our CL status and revenue is better for us and the risk of losing our CL status (which would be 50/50 at best) would make me choose option 1.

Option 1 keeps us in the CL next year, keeps us in CL money, maintains our status and profile across Europe as a Champions league side (not to mention damaging one of our competitiors who miss out on CL football next year)

 

[MattyP]

If we won it of course that would be the best thing that ever happened to our club.

Option 2 guarantees us nothing

option 1 is the safe bet as it gets us back in the CL next year and provides us a platform for continued growth and progression as a club (helps keep our current crop of players happy and gives us a better chance of signing the players we need to reach the next level)

Option 2 comes with the glamour of an extented CL run and a place in the showcase event that is the final, but its an all or nothing option, you have the chance to win BIG but also risk having nothing where option one offers something but not as much (although you can't lose)

Who remembers the club that came thrid? no one, but then who remembers who lost the final? or who cares about that club?

Does anyone care Arsenal lost a CL final before? or Chelsea for that matter?

Option 2 is wonderful if it pays of but lose the final and it is worthless.

Option one is the safe bet so it depends how much of a gambler you are.

Personally for a club in our current position I'd say maintaining our CL status and revenue is better for us and the risk of losing our CL status (which would be 50/50 at best) would make me choose option 1.

Option 1 keeps us in the CL next year, keeps us in CL money, maintains our status and profile across Europe as a Champions league side (not to mention damaging one of our competitiors who miss out on CL football next year)

Option 2 is not worthless.

Financially we'd be well off, getting through to the final and then losing. Granted the potential money would be higher with option 1, but option 2 is not worthless financially.

It is not worthless from an emotional perspective either. To get to the final, would mean that we would have to beat (or draw) with Milan at home, then win two further rounds to have reached that. Who knows what that could hold. It could mean we'd beaten Ar5ena1, Barcelona, Real Madrid. That's not worthless to me.

Watching our team in a Champions League final at Wembley, irrespective of the result, would not be worthless to me. Or the players.

I'm staggered that anyone could state that being champions league runners up would be worthless.

 

[WhiteStripe]

But it doesn't guarentee progress.

It does. Back to back qualifications for the UCL through the league is something nobody bar Man United Chelsea Liverpool or Arsenal have done in EPL history.

Thats guaranteed progress vs possible progress.

 

[AngerManagement]

Option 2 is not worthless.

Financially we'd be well off, getting through to the final and then losing. Granted the potential money would be higher with option 1, but option 2 is not worthless financially.

It is not worthless from an emotional perspective either. To get to the final, would mean that we would have to beat (or draw) with Milan at home, then win two further rounds to have reached that. Who knows what that could hold. It could mean we'd beaten Ar5ena1, Barcelona, Real Madrid. That's not worthless to me.

Watching our team in a Champions League final at Wembley, irrespective of the result, would not be worthless to me. Or the players.

I'm staggered that anyone could state that being champions league runners up would be worthless.

Option two if we lose is worthless in terms of next season.

It would be a great achievement for this season yes, it would result in many glory nights along the way yes and would be a wonderful ride for the fans along the way.

When I say worthless I am talking in terms of progression for next season.

I think you are taking my use of the word worthless too literally, I am well aware of worth of this seasons glory. I was talking in terms of being given the choice of the two, an appearance in the CL final at the expense of maintaining our CL status would be worthless from the stand point of where it leaves us next season (without CL group stage money and CL football to offer potential signings)

Leeds reached the CL semi final once, but they were a one season wonder and flash in the pan. I'd rather we reinforce our position as a CL club and become a regular in the tournament than lose in the final and spend next season in the Europa.

 

[brett.spurs]

And what happens if we finish 5th next year? We have zilch to show for it, and you've just turned down the biggest game in club football. Finishing 3rd gives us CL football again, it doesn't guarentee progress at all though.

 

[WhiteStripe]

And what happens if we finish 5th next year? We have zilch to show for it, and you've just turned down the biggest game in club football. Finishing 3rd gives us CL football again, it doesn't guarentee progress at all though.

If we finish 5th the year after then we finish 5th the year after. I'm talking about giving ourselves the best platform to push on and progress next season, and for me, that's being involved in Europe's most elite competition yet again.

 

[Such Small Portions]

100 percent agree with brett in this little exchange, btw.