With and without...

[sloth]

Given all the speculation surrounding next year's formations I wanted to have a slightly different look at our team. It's simple really, what sort of team do we have when we have the ball and how does it compare to our team when we don't?

IMO, we're up there with the best in the land when we have the ball, not many can match us in terms of players who can do something, who can create and score goals when in possession, from Bale and Hutton, through to the likes of Thudd, Modric, Keane, Berba, Lennon, Dos Santos et al, we have a supreme ball playing side, we're balanced and we can score goals.

However, the league and CL places are secured by the kind of team you have without the ball, the top four are a prime example, but for the purposes of this Everton does as a model. Limited with the ball (but not as limited as sometimes made out), they are superb without and it's no surprise that they did so comparatively well last season. On the other hand, we're pretty weak without, maybe not even top half. Woodgate, Hutton, JJ, DZ and Malbranque are our main players here and even without going into detailed analysis you can see the weakness straight away.

Anyway, what do people think and what, if it's needed, is the solution...?

 

[Bonjour]

Michael Carrick.

 

[Mullers]

I think the solution is for the players to maintain their focus and motivation for the full 90 minutes. The players have shown themselves to be good without the ball against Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal last season so they can do it. I'd like us to beef up the Central Midfield area though. I'd like to see either 2 quality DM's there or one quality DM with an all rounder Midfielder. Stephen Appiah perhaps.

 

[spurslenny]

probably setting myself up for some ridicule here , but what the heck!
don't have the stats to hand, but from memory i don't think we conceded a massive amount of goals from open play, compared to the teams that finished 5th and 6th. What killed us was the amount we conceded from set pieces.

could someone, not as lazy as myself, mind digging up info on this point.

thanks awfully :grin:

 

[Kendall]

we conceded loads of belters from outside the box because there was no midfield

 

[double0]

we conceded loads of belters from outside the box because there was no midfield

maybe part of the reason but imo because we didn't have a top class goal keeper to save basic pot shots.

 

[PT]

More like a decent keeper with a crisis of confidence. But that's been done to death. It is relevant in this discussion though because defending starts up front and that's what Sloth, Mullers and Kendall are alluding to.

Our midfield, for example has to close down space and track deep runners. Our defence can't go to sleep and let those pot shots come in and of course, our keeper has to be on the top of his game.

 

[Kendall]

maybe part of the reason but imo because we didn't have a top class goal keeper to save basic pot shots.

I know Robinson has been poor at crosses and comanding his area, but some of the longer rangers were unstoppable from his point of view, but could've been dealt with from a midfield point of view.

Adebayor at the lane
Larsson at the Lane
Luke Young at Boro
Nani at United
McCarthy at the Lane
Samba at the Lane

There are more but that's off the top of my head

 

[double0]

More like a decent keeper with a crisis of confidence. But that's been done to death. It is relevant in this discussion though because defending starts up front and that's what Sloth, Mullers and Kendall are alluding to.

Our midfield, for example has to close down space and track deep runners. Our defence can't go to sleep and let those pot shots come in and of course, our keeper has to be on the top of his game.

Fair enough points PT. Although it wasn't a coincidence IMO that over the last 7-8 games during the season closure with Cerney in goal, our goals against column had improved without recognition.

 

[double0]

I know Robinson has been poor at crosses and comanding his area, but some of the longer rangers were unstoppable from his point of view, but could've been dealt with from a midfield point of view.

Adebayor at the lane
Larsson at the Lane
Luke Young at Boro
Nani at United
McCarthy at the Lane
Samba at the Lane

There are more but that's off the top of my head

Kendall I respect your posts but we do have differing opinions on issues one being the Goal Keeper.

Adebayors at the lane please have a look at Robinson's token effort to say that shot, his eyes were closed and IMO he only had to angel his arm to his right instead of straight up in the air.

Nani's goal was down to pure and simple poor positioning .. Robbo was way to far off his line IMO.


but I'm not intending to have an argument about the Keeper as I don't rate him ...the same way you tend not to rate our midfield.

 

[SpurSince57]

I know Robinson has been poor at crosses and comanding his area, but some of the longer rangers were unstoppable from his point of view, but could've been dealt with from a midfield point of view.

Adebayor at the lane
Larsson at the Lane
Luke Young at Boro
Nani at United
McCarthy at the Lane
Samba at the Lane

There are more but that's off the top of my head

To which I could add Belletti's at the Bridge (but for his, McCarthy's and Samba's Cerny was in goal).

But really, that's irrelevant to Sloth's argument. Yes, we do stroke the ball around beautifully at times, but how often does it go sideways umpteen times before finally finding its way back to the keeper? (Meanwhile, the opposition have had ample time to organise themselves.) That was particularly evident against PSV, where on several occasions Berbatov and Keane got themselves into good positions on the edge of their box and were frantically waving for the ball, only to see it wend its leisurely way back to Robbo.

Another massive frustration is that whilst we've harried and closed down effectively against United, Chelsea and Arsenal, we've failed to do so against the lesser fry.