Fatigue

[Metalhead]

How many PL games has Kane started this season? From what a can see on SO it's twenty in TOTAL (all comps) and eight as sub. I mean should we rotate him every ten games or so?

You don't want Ade, but you also don't want Kane playing?

Fuck me next your'l want Poch taking every second weekend off....................



















Fucks sake..........................

Isn't that what the players are doing?

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Fuck are you talking about...we don't have three league games in a week all season long do we. This busy period should be handled differently, what's so hard to understand about that.

You make fuck all sense to be honest.

To be honest you and I are much alike then, sort of fully paid up members of the "Know Fuck All Club"

 

[TheGreenLily]

Oh no, it's another Lennon love fest... Lennon is just lucky he is the only out and out right winger we have. Otherwise he would have been gone a long time ago.

That is not to say he hasn't played well the last couple of games... Well, certainly not against Chelsea, but then he was on the left and anyone with half brain knows that Lennon is shit on left...

But really, our biggest problem is 4-2-3-1.... AVB failed at it, failed with TS, and is failing with Pooch... Stinks of committee to me...

We can play a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 formation and until that happens we look like a joke.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think that you will find that in the PL Chel$ea have one of the most unchanged lineups this season as the Special One is loathe to change unless a player gets injured or suspended. At the end of the day each team has a twenty five man first team squad. The fixture list is always hectic as the year ends and the new one begins so nothing has changed on that front really. It's not like those teams (aside from Palace) were not in Europe at some point. I mean hell, even LVG is trying to line up midweek friendlies for his side. If rest was key for these professional footballers then surely LVG wouldn't be doing that now would he?

Yes. Gaz. What I made implicit in the post you are quoting, I then made explicit in my next post in this thread (and in my post in the match thread dealing with same issues). I'm not using it as an excuse. The performance was abject. And I don't think Pochettino came out if it particularly well. The squad could have been used better. For me the biggest issue was in the centre of the park. I have applauded Poch for picking Mason out straight from the off, and I have always been a big fan of Bentaleb - right from his days in the under 21's. But they didn't quite look at it yesterday, and we have more than enough fully capped internationals in midfield to have given either or both a rest for one of Chelsea/Palace.

But, without impeding the validity of this point one iota, it is a scientific fact that over short time frames an extra day recovery can be massive. And the fixture schedulers had us playing 3 games in six days - for the last two we were competing against teams that had three days recovery to our two days recovery. It is possible to say that we should have dealt with it better, and the head coach made some poor decisions, while at the same time saying that this seems like a very poor assignment of fixtures. And that is what I am saying.

 

[Trix]

Will just add. Lennon was supposed to start yesterday, but felt his hamstring was a little tight not too long before the team was announced. That is why Poch waited so long to put him on, and that was only as a last resort. I had posted this on COYS this morning but it hasn't made it's way here from what I can see.

 

[Chris12]

Will just add. Lennon was supposed to start yesterday, but felt his hamstring was a little tight not too long before the team was announced. That is why Poch waited so long to put him on, and that was only as a last resort. I had posted this on COYS this morning but it hasn't made it's way here from what I can see.

Instead of Lamela I'm guessing?

 

[Trix]

Instead of Lamela I'm guessing?

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Yes. Gaz. What I made implicit in the post you are quoting, I then made explicit in my next post in this thread (and in my post in the match thread dealing with same issues). I'm not using it as an excuse. The performance was abject. And I don't think Pochettino came out if it particularly well. The squad could have been used better. For me the biggest issue was in the centre of the park. I have applauded Poch for picking Mason out straight from the off, and I have always been a big fan of Bentaleb - right from his days in the under 21's. But they didn't quite look at it yesterday, and we have more than enough fully capped internationals in midfield to have given either or both a rest for one of Chelsea/Palace.

But, without impeding the validity of this point one iota, it is a scientific fact that over short time frames an extra day recovery can be massive. And the fixture schedulers had us playing 3 games in six days - for the last two we were competing against teams that had three days recovery to our two days recovery. It is possible to say that we should have dealt with it better, and the head coach made some poor decisions, while at the same time saying that this seems like a very poor assignment of fixtures. And that is what I am saying.

Poch does have options, but yesterday he defied logic in my opinion by starting Lamela ahead of Lennon or the fresher Chadli who is scoring goals. I think Poch has a 35% win ratio, and Levy fired a guy with one at 61%?

I am not trying to bring out the usual hate brigade but without sounding negative Poch does have pretty much the same squad? We should expect better whoever played in the EL, against Hull, Everton or Chel$ea. We were not facing a top side filled with talent yesterday. At some point this season the excuses about tiredness (all teams have a twenty five man squad), pitch size, and fan support have to stop and goals begin to flow.

We again looked like a team of individuals who felt it out right to win. After watching the Newcastle and West Ham games live i hate to say it but it's clear to see progress at both of those sides, but damn near impossible to see one at Spurs, and tiredness cannot be an excuse for the vast majority of the performances over the past four games in my opinion.

 

[Mr Pink]

Will just add. Lennon was supposed to start yesterday, but felt his hamstring was a little tight not too long before the team was announced. That is why Poch waited so long to put him on, and that was only as a last resort. I had posted this on COYS this morning but it hasn't made it's way here from what I can see.

Well that certainly explains that. Was perplexed at the time.

 

[striebs]

People are talking like Spurs have a divine right to beat teams like Crystal Palace .

A 0-0 draw , even at home against a Palace side who are no mans fools was a decent result for Spurs .

We aren't a top 8 club anymore . People need to accept that .

 

[Geyzer Soze]

I'm pretty sure we have same number of players in our squad as the rest of the league. 25 man squad for everyone, right?

Maximum of

 

[StartingPrice]

Poch does have options, but yesterday he defied logic in my opinion by starting Lamela ahead of Lennon or the fresher Chadli who is scoring goals. I think Poch has a 35% win ratio, and Levy fired a guy with one at 61%?

I am not trying to bring out the usual hate brigade but without sounding negative Poch does have pretty much the same squad? We should expect better whoever played in the EL, against Hull, Everton or Chel$ea. We were not facing a top side filled with talent yesterday. At some point this season the excuses about tiredness (all teams have a twenty five man squad), pitch size, and fan support have to stop and goals begin to flow.

We again looked like a team of individuals who felt it out right to win. After watching the Newcastle and West Ham games live i hate to say it but it's clear to see progress at both of those sides, but damn near impossible to see one at Spurs, and tiredness cannot be an excuse for the vast majority of the performances over the past four games in my opinion.

Gaz, I'm not disagreeing with most of what you say - though TrickyVilla has posted info that Lennon wasn't playing in the first place, and his introduction was delayed in the second, due to an injury concern.

Just that it is possible for this to be right, but it also be right that the fixtures panel didn't not function very well in giving us to games in three days against opponents who had a day longer to recover - where our recovery time was two days.

There may be other reasons why Pochettino was shy about using the full squad. Maybe he only wants to play players who are buying into his system, for instance. That would restrict his options, forcing him to play tired players. And then there is the injury situation.

We can only hope that yesterday was a blip in what seemed like improving performances.

 

[Nocando]

I think he is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't. Our squad isn't strong enough in terms of quality to allow us to rotate and our squad isn't well drilled and experienced enough to allow for repeated games in a short period of time. It's a catch 22, which is borne out from a need for Poch to stamp his mark on the team and more importantly on the squad. It's still very early days and the guys on the periphery aren't conforming to Poch's style so he can't rely on them. Expecting the alternative option to work is just madness (if he had rotated then no doubt people would have complained he didn't play his best 11).

I think we just need to be a little patient and not expect some magic wand cure to the situation in practically no time at all. Ideally we just need to shut our mouths and let things work themselves out.

 

[spurs9]

I found it interesting that for for the Chelsea game we had three days to recover playing against a team that had four, and ditto for the Palace game. They were our second and third games in 6 (SIX) days. I don't know that they should be used as excuses, I think plenty of other things were done wrong. But I do think it is lousy scheduling and, given the importance put on recovery time after games, I can see scope for saying it disadvantaged us. But Mourinho complains about fixtures being unfavourable, Beetroot Head used to complain about fixtures being unfavourable...we at THFC, club, head coach/manager/players/fans do not for some reason it would break an unwritten rule.

It has been proven that having only 2 days rest between game days (What we had V Chelsea & Palace) has an negative impact on performance where as 3 days doesn't. However, we had the opportunity to rotate the squad and Poch chose not to, so these results are very much on Poch IMO.

 

[Mr Pink]

It has been proven that having only 2 days rest between game days (What we had V Chelsea & Palace) has an negative impact on performance where as 3 days doesn't. However, we had the opportunity to rotate the squad and Poch chose not to, so these results are very much on Poch IMO.

Agree, and this is coming from one of Pochettno's biggest supporters.

Should of managed the squad better. No hindsight, said until I was blue in the face all week before the Chav game.

 

[spurs9]

Agree, and this is coming from one of Pochettno's biggest supporters.

Should of managed the squad better. No hindsight, said until I was blue in the face all week before the Chav game.

No hindsight required for Poch either. He knows his system is hard on the players, he knows how much a game of football takes it's toll and players, he knows how long it takes to recover and he knew whan the next game would be played.

 

[terry10]

Kane looked particularly tired to me. He put in a great deal of effort against Everton and Chelsea and looked like he was playing on empty against Palace. Just hope he is not used at all against Besiktas.

 

[CheeseGromit]

i dont really think it is singularly about 3 games in 6 days

It is a combination of things that can come into play and an additional burden of travel , european wise, internationals new coach and the World Cup

i dont think that many have really taken into account that the w/c does have an impact on players. A full season comes to a climax players get a short rest, restart training and prepare to play on another time zone and climatic conditions , end the tournament and are back playing with clubs within a few weeks.

In Spurs case, and others, players returned to training in relays trying to bring players to the same level early in the season. At spurs you get a new regime wanting different things and additional training. After season starts travel starts to involve returning during the night after a Thursday game to play on Sunday. Most internationals have had 4 games in this period as well. It isnt a massively difficult life for sure but it can be tiring

Noticed how many odd results there ahve been this season. Is there a good explanations. We are happy to poke fun at both Scousers, Manure the crap don the road but it is not a normal order for the season.

Exceptions can be pointed out , Chelski for one I do think there are reasons behind that but not detract from the point they are an exception.

Sure Championship and lower leagues sides play more games but they had a longer summer break and just about all there travel is within the UK

its not the biggst point but does it have an effect, well I think it can add to the cumulative position of being match fit and ready for every game

 

[StartingPrice]

It has been proven that having only 2 days rest between game days (What we had V Chelsea & Palace) has an negative impact on performance where as 3 days doesn't. However, we had the opportunity to rotate the squad and Poch chose not to, so these results are very much on Poch IMO.

Which is, pretty much, what I said, implicitly in my first post (" I don't know that they should be used as excuses, I think plenty of other things were done wrong."), but then explicitly in subsequent posts. I know that if you are reading the thread from the beginning and commenting as you go, you won't have got to them when you made this post, but by focusing on the (incorrect) assumption that I am in some way exonerating Poch, yourself and several other members are missing the point I am making: independent of how well or poorly Poch handled the circumstances, it is pretty lousy fixture scheduling to have a team play three games in six days, and for the latter two to only have two days to recover while competing with a team who had three days to recover (in each instance). Regardless of whether rotation should have been used better or not, Mourinho and Beetroot Head would have been turning press conferences blue in these circumstances.

Also, although I made it clear that the poor performance of the fixture schedulers in this instance shouldn't be used as an excuse and I have agreed about rotation, etc., it Pochettino is a head coach in a particular situation ATM. He is trying to sort his squad out, physically and psychologically, so maybe he wanted to play players who are have bought into his ideas and he trusts. Added to which, there are injuries hampering his ability to maximise his squad. Highlighted by the disclosure by TrickyVilla, above - hell, I don't know if he's ITK - that Lennon wasn't played, in the first instance, and his introduction was delayed, in the second instance, because of an injury.

Ultimately, regardless of how Poch handled it, the fixture schedulers could have done significantly better.

 

[spurs9]

Which is, pretty much, what I said, implicitly in my first post (" I don't know that they should be used as excuses, I think plenty of other things were done wrong."), but then explicitly in subsequent posts. I know that if you are reading the thread from the beginning and commenting as you go, you won't have got to them when you made this post, but by focusing on the (incorrect) assumption that I am in some way exonerating Poch, yourself and several other members are missing the point I am making: independent of how well or poorly Poch handled the circumstances, it is pretty lousy fixture scheduling to have a team play three games in six days, and for the latter two to only have two days to recover while competing with a team who had three days to recover (in each instance). Regardless of whether rotation should have been used better or not, Mourinho and Beetroot Head would have been turning press conferences blue in these circumstances.

Also, although I made it clear that the poor performance of the fixture schedulers in this instance shouldn't be used as an excuse and I have agreed about rotation, etc., it Pochettino is a head coach in a particular situation ATM. He is trying to sort his squad out, physically and psychologically, so maybe he wanted to play players who are have bought into his ideas and he trusts. Added to which, there are injuries hampering his ability to maximise his squad. Highlighted by the disclosure by TrickyVilla, above - hell, I don't know if he's ITK - that Lennon wasn't played, in the first instance, and his introduction was delayed, in the second instance, because of an injury.

Ultimately, regardless of how Poch handled it, the fixture schedulers could have done significantly better.

I wasn't having a go at you mate, I was actually backing up what you are saying, essentially agreeing that fatigue was an issue and it wouldn't have been if the scheduling had given us an extra day rest for each game but also that Poch knew that, so should have rotated.