Swiss Ramble Article on our finances

[DCSPUR]

swiss ramble is terrific. Shows that over the next period (5 years until the stadium is built, naming rights done and money starts to come in) the club needs to be prudent in the transfer market and have a coach comfortable with an approach that probably sees an increase in home grown players, some younger bargains and the occasional slightly more spendy purchase. Poch is that guy.

This also shows how daft the summer spend was post Bale - particularly Soldado. Such a costly break with the approach. All the other purchases could be looked at as buy, improve, sell but Soldado wow - like splurging after a lottery win

 

[mill]

Lloris, who hasn't indicated he wants a move, has good reason - we've achieved very little since he's been at the club.

Berbatov forced his move after we'd just won a trophy and had formed a lethal partnership with Keane, who also as-good-as forced a move (tapped up by Liverpool).

Modric forced a move after we'd nearly finished 3rd, and only missed out on CL football by a stupid (now defunct) rule.

Bale forced a move after we'd obtained our highest ever points tally and marginally missed out on CL football.


What do you want the club to do? Give the players away? You always seem so pissed that the club make the best possible outcome from a bad situation.

Saha and nelsen hardly scream ambition tbf

Edit: quoted wrong post

 

[worcestersauce]

Ah so that's how they can pay bigger wages than us, I thought it was just because we were tight fisted bastards!

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

Not shit, not great just Tottenham. I am getting more and more frustrated by our "one step forward, two steps back policy". It is nice to have a young squad but I don't care about age,I care about quality players making a quality team, winning trophies. Thank you and good night!

 

[Lilbaz]

"That`s more than a quarter of a billion in player sales as Levy`s tough negotiation skills have reaped large financial rewards, albeit at the cost of weakening the team"

Sums the current regime up beautifully.

Audere est Facere

Cornelius, I have just gone back looking through all your old posts. Every single one of them either slags off Levy or says we are not going to build a new stadium. Not one mentions a players form, you never go in to chat or the under 21 and youth threads. All I get from that is that you are a troll who probably doesn't support Spurs. Well done you have even got some posters here agreeing with you. You've done your job well.

 

[Mullers]

I think the hierarchy and supporters need to be realistic about what a club with our financial means can achieve.
We should have a strategy, stick to it and don't make achieving regular champions league football part of that strategy.

 

[Shea]

Lloris, who hasn't indicated he wants a move, has good reason - we've achieved very little since he's been at the club.

Berbatov forced his move after we'd just won a trophy and had formed a lethal partnership with Keane, who also as-good-as forced a move (tapped up by Liverpool).

Modric forced a move after we'd nearly finished 3rd, and only missed out on CL football by a stupid (now defunct) rule.

Bale forced a move after we'd obtained our highest ever points tally and marginally missed out on CL football.


What do you want the club to do? Give the players away? You always seem so pissed that the club make the best possible outcome from a bad situation.

Being realistic though

Berbatov, Modric and Bale all moved to clubs that they were guaranteed instant and sustained success - just because we'd won a Carling cup or qualified for the CL once (or just missed out) was never going to be enough to make them want to stay and build with us (a long shot for any success let alone sustained success) over the moves to Man U and Real they had on offer which would guarantee them success at the highest level

Berbatov left and won two EPL titles with Utd, the team also reached the CL final and were capable of winning it. On top of that he won a League cup, 2 community shields and the World Club Championship.....why, without being a Spurs fan, would the fact we'd just won a League cup be enough for him to stay over the potential of winning all he won with Utd?

Same for Modric and Bale - ok we were in and around the CL places and could have maybe built ourselves in to title contenders had we retained their services and added more quality to the squad but it was still pretty unrealistic and they have both gone on to be CL winners with Real, why would they stay and hope to build with a Spurs team when they could treble their wages and guarantee success at Real

I don't blame the club for selling - I don't think we had a choice in the matter and in fairness we got good prices for all 3.

The real problem lies with our inability to reinvest the money wisely

 

[225]

Not shit, not great just Tottenham. I am getting more and more frustrated by our "one step forward, two steps back policy". It is nice to have a young squad but I don't care about age,I care about quality players making a quality team, winning trophies. Thank you and good night!

The problem about making a quality team is that most players who are already quality would want £100k+ a week.

£100k a week is £5.2m a year
£150k a week is £7.8m a year

Teams like Utd, City and Chelsea pay more. For example, Hazard is supposed to be on £10m a year, Rooney £13m, Aguero £10m.

Our current wage budget is current around £100m, and we're capped on growth, so that's around half of the budget City, Utd and Chelsea have. Nothing to do with our ownership now, just FFP and how it's actually preserving the top 3/4 clubs.

So with our £100m budget, it's a bit like picking a Fantasy Football Team. By the time you've filled the first 11 with expensive players, you realise that you've got no budget for quality back-ups. That's where we've suffered the most, not necessarily our first 11, but our second 11. You can't even have one big money earner and a bunch of lower paid "quality", as most of the team will see that as the aspirational ceiling and will soon demand parity, and players would demand to move anyway.

So, the most effective and ambitious way around this is to 'grow' a squad. Younger players can reach quality sooner, and can be expected to hold an affinity towards the club, allowing a shielding effect against the attitude of "money comes first". That's what we seem to be doing, and we'll probably be able to pad them out with more experienced quality once our lower contributing high earners are moved on (Kaboul, Adebayor, Soldado, Paulinho, etc.).

As much as you're saying age doesn't matter to you, look at City. There's no point in building an expensive squad if they're averaging 30 and declining rapidly. If we can assemble a young squad then it means that they have far more years ahead of them to gel and build on each season - Man United did this with Scholes, Butt, Giggs, Beckham and the Neville bros, and it was the basis of their long term domination.

 

[225]

Being realistic though

Berbatov, Modric and Bale all moved to clubs that they were guaranteed instant and sustained success - just because we'd won a Carling cup or qualified for the CL once (or just missed out) was never going to be enough to make them want to stay and build with us (a long shot for any success let alone sustained success) over the moves to Man U and Real they had on offer which would guarantee them success at the highest level

Berbatov left and won two EPL titles with Utd, the team also reached the CL final and were capable of winning it. On top of that he won a League cup, 2 community shields and the World Club Championship.....why, without being a Spurs fan, would the fact we'd just won a League cup be enough for him to stay over the potential of winning all he won with Utd?

Same for Modric and Bale - ok we were in and around the CL places and could have maybe built ourselves in to title contenders had we retained their services and added more quality to the squad but it was still pretty unrealistic and they have both gone on to be CL winners with Real, why would they stay and hope to build with a Spurs team when they could treble their wages and guarantee success at Real

I don't blame the club for selling - I don't think we had a choice in the matter and in fairness we got good prices for all 3.

The real problem lies with our inability to reinvest the money wisely

No I know that, it was a rebuttal to the accusation/insinuation that these players are either

a) Sold by a cackling, hand rubbing Levy
b) Leave due to lack of ambition shown by the club

The reality is that we've been plagued by players who contribute towards our ambitions, then abandon us before we can reach them. If Modric and Bale stuck around, they may well be winning league titles here and not getting boo'ed at each week for not scoring a zillion goals.

 

[Shea]

No I know that, it was a rebuttal to the accusation/insinuation that these players are either

a) Sold by a cackling, hand rubbing Levy
b) Leave due to lack of ambition shown by the club

The reality is that we've been plagued by players who contribute towards our ambitions, then abandon us before we can reach them. If Modric and Bale stuck around, they may well be winning league titles here and not getting boo'ed at each week for not scoring a zillion goals.

Yea - but it was fine while smart investment in players was on going

Berbatov and Keane leave - Modric and Bale emerge as the new stars

Just since we sold Bale we've not invested as wisely, I dunno what changed, we seemed to want to buy above our station once we reached CL and were no longer unearthing the gems. Players like Benteke would have been signed by us instead of Villa previously but we suddenly wanted to try and sign more established high profile players and we've wasted millions on players that for one reason or another have not been suited to the club

The good news is our youth players have been given a chance and hopefully more will come through that avenue and also now we've revamped our scouting and recruitment set up (I assume/hope to return to the policy that brought us success in the first place)

 

[225]

Yea - but it was fine while smart investment in players was on going

Berbatov and Keane leave - Modric and Bale emerge as the new stars

Just since we sold Bale we've not invested as wisely, I dunno what changed, we seemed to want to buy above our station once we reached CL and were no longer unearthing the gems. Players like Benteke would have been signed by us instead of Villa previously but we suddenly wanted to try and sign more established high profile players and we've wasted millions on players that for one reason or another have not been suited to the club

The good news is our youth players have been given a chance and hopefully more will come through that avenue and also now we've revamped our scouting and recruitment set up (I assume/hope to return to the policy that brought us success in the first place)

I think it was just AVB playing Football Manager in his mind. He pretended he had nothing to do with them, but I'm sure we know deep down that's utter shit.

We're still suffering from that hangover, but it'll be our first summer with Broomfield, Mitchell etc. out secretly sussing out some top targets. This season was always going to be a "just get through it as best you can" jobby, imo.

If we can start 2015/16 without the baggage then it'll be a breath of fresh air in comparison

 

[Lilbaz]

It's not ENIC that's the issue now, it's FFP.

I'm sure we can only increase our wage bill by £4m/season, so even with a 'sugar daddy' we'd be massively breaking rules.

As wage bills are linked to team quality (in terms of attracting/retaining better players generally equals higher wages)

1) £215m - Man Utd
2) £205m - Man City
3) £193m - Chelsea
4) £166m - Arsenal
5) £144m - Liverpool
6) £100m - Tottenham

Even if we increased by the maximum £4m/season, and the other clubs stayed stagnant, we'd only just be overtaking Chelsea in 24 years time.

So unless I've got mixed up somewhere, the FA are essentially 'preserving' the elite's place in the table by suffocating the growth of those teams below them. It's like we're being punished for not "buying" the game before FFP.

That being said, I noticed our wages went up 50% from the start of Redknapp's reign to the end! (some £60m in 2009 to £90m in 2012)

No. It was £52m of the new tv money could be used for wages. Increasing £4m a year (£60m this year). All other income can be put towards wages if we wish. That would mean that we would be allowed to pay £140m this year on wages. Still less than the others though. But build the new stadium that increases by another £60m.

 

[225]

No. It was £52m of the new tv money could be used for wages. Increasing £4m a year (£60m this year). All other income can be put towards wages if we wish. That would mean that we would be allowed to pay £140m this year on wages. Still less than the others though. But build the new stadium that increases by another £60m.

According to the rules:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21374699

• The new Premier League rules state each team over the next three seasons will not be allowed to make a total loss of more than £105m
• In the same period, clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52m will only be allowed to increase their salaries by an accumulative £4m per season

Ours is well over the £52m amount, so we can only increase our total wages by £4m a year. Or something.

"Clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52m will only be allowed to increase their salaries by an accumulative £4m per season for each of the next three years (2013-14: £4m, 2014-15: £8m, 2015-16: £12m).

However, that only applies to revenue centrally distributed by the Premier League - essentially TV income - and does not cover extra money coming in from increases in commercial or matchday income."

You mentioned the last bit, but I still don't quite 'get' the rule - seems a bit floppy.

It's all a bit confusing, but I still very much doubt that we can get anywhere near the wages of the top clubs until the stadium is built.

 

[Stoof]

Yeah, because that's the only alternative.

Sheikh it off, Sheikh it off.

The day we get bought out and made a soul-less corporation (even more so?) akin to the likes of Manchester City's half full Champions League fixtures and Chelsea's "great day out for the tourists with 2.4 children" (all 4.4 of whom are kitted out in full kit carrying flags and £8.50 pies) is the day I will gladly not renew my season ticket.

There is something to be said for doing it the right way. I don't care if we never win the League because of that very fact either. Some supporter I must be eh?

Cheering the players every week, not wishing to just be another customer number. When actually, what you are inferring is that the only we can be successful is if we're bought out (if it is not, and please correct me).

 

[Francis Gibbs]

Ah for the halcyon days of finishing in mid-table with Sir Lord Alan Sugar OBE MBE CBE at the helm, being sponsored by Amstrad and eating rightly-sized wagon wheels.

did Sir Alan have the astronomical Sky money to play with?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Sheikh it off, Sheikh it off.

The day we get bought out and made a soul-less corporation (even more so?) akin to the likes of Manchester City's half full Champions League fixtures and Chelsea's "great day out for the tourists with 2.4 children" (all 4.4 of whom are kitted out in full kit carrying flags and £8.50 pies) is the day I will gladly not renew my season ticket.

There is something to be said for doing it the right way. I don't care if we never win the League because of that very fact either. Some supporter I must be eh?

Cheering the players every week, not wishing to just be another customer number. When actually, what you are inferring is that the only we can be successful is if we're bought out (if it is not, and please correct me).

What did you think about the Cain Hoy stuff?

 

[Francis Gibbs]

Sheikh it off, Sheikh it off.

The day we get bought out and made a soul-less corporation (even more so?) akin to the likes of Manchester City's half full Champions League fixtures and Chelsea's "great day out for the tourists with 2.4 children" (all 4.4 of whom are kitted out in full kit carrying flags and £8.50 pies) is the day I will gladly not renew my season ticket.

There is something to be said for doing it the right way. I don't care if we never win the League because of that very fact either. Some supporter I must be eh?

Cheering the players every week, not wishing to just be another customer number. When actually, what you are inferring is that the only we can be successful is if we're bought out (if it is not, and please correct me).

the fact you dont realise you are just another customer number now, surprises me tbh

 

[Lilbaz]

According to the rules:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21374699

• The new Premier League rules state each team over the next three seasons will not be allowed to make a total loss of more than £105m
• In the same period, clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52m will only be allowed to increase their salaries by an accumulative £4m per season

Ours is well over the £52m amount, so we can only increase our total wages by £4m a year. Or something.

"Clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52m will only be allowed to increase their salaries by an accumulative £4m per season for each of the next three years (2013-14: £4m, 2014-15: £8m, 2015-16: £12m).

However, that only applies to revenue centrally distributed by the Premier League - essentially TV income - and does not cover extra money coming in from increases in commercial or matchday income."

You mentioned the last bit, but I still don't quite 'get' the rule - seems a bit floppy.

It's all a bit confusing, but I still very much doubt that we can get anywhere near the wages of the top clubs until the stadium is built.

The reason they brought the rule in was so that not all of the tv money went on wages and clubs could hold back some of it. Basically it is £52m + commercial + matchday = wages. The £52m will increase by £4m a year (now £60m). So it is now £60m + commercial + matchday = wages. We (and many other clubs) just haven't spent all our commercial and matchday revenue on wages. If we wanted to we could, but we wont as there are other expenses. Academy, training ground, running the stadium, building a new stadium etc... Also if we did we'd probably run at a loss risking the £105m loss over 3 seasons rule.

 

[Stoof]

did Sir Alan have the astronomical Sky money to play with?

OK, so my "light-hearted" post was to attempt to remind those of what Levy inherited and where we are at now.

When did the Sky era take-off? Wasn't it after Lord Al sat around with a group of other chairman and said "hey chaps, there's this company that's willing to pay a fucking fortune to exclusively show football to the middle classes, fancy selling out?"

 

[Stoof]

the fact you dont realise you are just another customer number now, surprises me tbh

Yeah, but it's not Sheikh level yet. There's still a bit of actual sport in there for me to feel comfortable.