Ratings vs Arsenal

SteveH said:

Oh your so mean

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*you're

The ratings in this thread make me laugh.

Marty said:

FINALLY someone's mentioned this. A manager should wear a suit.

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Pooch is not a manager.

Lloris.........8.......My second favourite Frenchman this weekend.
Naughton..7.......Making his detractors eat their words again. Good show.No fuss.
Kaboul.......8+....My first favourite Frenchman. Poch knows (1). Welcome back.
Verts.........7+....Not quite playing with a smile on his face. But competence will do for now.
Rose.........7.......Never thought we'd be worried if he got injured.
Capoue.....7......Faded again but quietly able most of the time.
Mason.......7.....Poch knows (2). Thought it was wrong to throw him into this but it wasn't.
Eriksen......6-.....Wherever you are Christian hurry back.
Lamela......7.......Keen, yet another assist, silly wrong foot clearance for their goal.Calm down Erik calm down.
Chadli........7-......Nicely taken goal.There or therabouts.
Adebayor...5.......Clearly upset he wasn't made captain. Not very interested lately.

Lennon......6.......Did his stint in midfield.Better option than Townsend at this point in the game.
Dier...........6- Shame about the cross. Slotted in well otherwise.
Bentaleb............ NOLETR (* Not on long enough to rate.)

Mauricio Pochettino......Flexible menswear and tactics.Never trust a manager who wears shorts, a gilet, or even a tracksuit .................................on..matchdays. From JimmyG2's 'Advice to chairman on how to appoint a manager Chapter 3)

walton said:

Wowsers, the slack this guy gets cut is incredible...on his performances this season (writing off last year to fitness/settling in), he lacks the strength, pace and composure to come even close to justifying his price tag (and starting place). He presses, sure, but then that should be a given. Someone provide a suitably objective appraisal of what he offers...

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i guess every board needs a wind up merchant....yawn

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

I honestly couldn't see Arsenal scoring. Even the goal wasn't really worked. More an individual error from us. My opinion of the manager went up massively yesterday. The football intellects on here that drone on about philosophies, methodologies and that all the best managers have one way of playing is a load of cobblers. Imo the best managers adapt a way of playing to suit the players at the club or who he's playing against. I was worried on Wednesday when he played inverted wingers who rarely make the right choices when driving infield coupled with full backs who dont provide width and a lone forward who's not really a focal point to play off of. Yesterday was different and he went about the game in the right way imo. Arsenal are not a team it's easy to press against anyway. There players are generally comfortable receiving the ball under pressure and can pass the ball in tight spaces. It was a much better performance than last year.

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Who said that? I dare you to show me one post that says or suggests that. The Majority or should say all except one or two seem satisfied with result and how we played today. But there is nothing wrong in debating how it probably could have been done better. I get the impression that you and others like @Mr Pink believe we are slating Mopo and his tactics, far from it. Talking for myself I am very encouraged and he has gone up in my eyes especially after just re watching the whole 95 minutes and 7 seconds of the match

Mr Pink said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Last season we went there and had more possession but created absolutely nothing - bar in the last ten minutes when Soldado, IIRC, had a chance.

Yesterday, had we actually taken more care with our counter attacking we could of scored three - and that's no exaggeration.

We created far more attacking situations yesterday compared to last season, the fact they came on the counter shouldn't diminish that fact.

I find it so frustrating that some are dismissing it because its not their 'preferred style of football'. And then try and portray it as a terrible performance because of that, its just bollox to be honest.

The fact of the matter is, and is proven to be the case - and not just by us, its a very effective way to play against Arsenal.

We're early in our development under Pochettion, were under a bit of pressure leading up to the game. I think it was completely the prudent and sensible thing to do. Set up in a way that has been Arsenal's undoing over the years on many occasions.

And it worked a treat and, like I said, had we taken more care on the counter, we could of won the game, maybe convincingly to.

I measure games in terms of what we create and how much we threaten - not on possession were a large amount of it doesn't produce any threatening moments whatsoever.

That's not having the better of the game in my book.

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I completely agree, when Mourinho does it he gets lauded as a genius, however when we play the exact same game plan, people say that its a terrible performance etc etc.

Oh and the bit I bolded made me speak like Sean Connery

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

I honestly couldn't see Arsenal scoring. Even the goal wasn't really worked. More an individual error from us. My opinion of the manager went up massively yesterday. The football intellects on here that drone on about philosophies, methodologies and that all the best managers have one way of playing is a load of cobblers. Imo the best managers adapt a way of playing to suit the players at the club or who he's playing against. I was worried on Wednesday when he played inverted wingers who rarely make the right choices when driving infield coupled with full backs who dont provide width and a lone forward who's not really a focal point to play off of. Yesterday was different and he went about the game in the right way imo. Arsenal are not a team it's easy to press against anyway. There players are generally comfortable receiving the ball under pressure and can pass the ball in tight spaces. It was a much better performance than last year.

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Completely agree.

Mr Pink said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Last season we went there and had more possession but created absolutely nothing - bar in the last ten minutes when Soldado, IIRC, had a chance.

Yesterday, had we actually taken more care with our counter attacking we could of scored three - and that's no exaggeration.

We created far more attacking situations yesterday compared to last season, the fact they came on the counter shouldn't diminish that fact.

I find it so frustrating that some are dismissing it because its not their 'preferred style of football'. And then try and portray it as a terrible performance because of that, its just bollox to be honest.

The fact of the matter is, and is proven to be the case - and not just by us, its a very effective way to play against Arsenal.

We're early in our development under Pochettion, were under a bit of pressure leading up to the game. I think it was completely the prudent and sensible thing to do. Set up in a way that has been Arsenal's undoing over the years on many occasions.

And it worked a treat and, like I said, had we taken more care on the counter, we could of won the game, maybe convincingly to.

I measure games in terms of what we create and how much we threaten - not on possession were a large amount of it doesn't produce any threatening moments whatsoever.

That's not having the better of the game in my book.

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Agree i would rather go there and play like that and earn a point than have more possesion and lose maybe we should continue with this tactic until we are ready to impose ourselves more.
Your also right in stating that with better use of the ball We would have won and there were gaps in their defence shame We didnt have a modric.

shelfboy68 said:

Agree i would rather go there and play like that and earn a point than have more possesion and lose maybe we should continue with this tactic until we are ready to impose ourselves more.
Your also right in stating that with better use of the ball We would have won and there were gaps in their defence shame We didnt have a modric.

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Yeah, I just think it was the correct thing to do. Its not like we're showing real signs of Poch's system yet. We arn't, and we have only seen glimpses here and there. Had we replicated similar yesterday they would of beaten us comprehensively.

I really wanted Pochettino because I believe in his philosophy first and foremost, and think its a good way to play football. But it doesn't mean he can't ever deviate away from it if he believes the situation warrants it - and particularly when we arn't even close to implementing it properly either. He showed some flexibility yesterday that pleasantly surprised me, and I think the best managers can show some flexibility when required.

Poch is still learning in terms of what he has here. The fact that he looked at a big derby game in this instance, off the back of some uninspiring performances with little sign of his style coming through yet, and decided to set up in a way which gave us the best possible chance to take Arsenal on at the moment is credit to him IMO.

Erikssen should be dropped after that performance, he has been dragged off after 60 minutes in two matches because he has been woeful. Adebayor equally pointless.

Kaboul and Lloris excellent, Capoue ok, the rest below par.

Some people would say that was a good point away to a top 4 side, I would say we were lucky that Arsenal had an off day because we were horrific (bar the above).

Papering over (massive) cracks

Black said:

I actually thought ade weren't that bad he's just the scape goat because the love in spurs fans have with certain players who don't preform as well as they should be never get slated.

They way a lot of you are making out like he just stood still all game, he made some good runs and held the ball up well at times playing against probably two of the best defenders in the league. I do agree he can be playing better but I just don't think he's clicked yet with Lamela and Chadli as well as he did last season with Eriksen closer to him.

Some of you really need to start sharing out all this bad criticism with some of your favourite players too, just imagine if that was Townsend who shanked his clearance for their goal and then didn't close down the player who was open and clearly going to receive the ball...

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Can you imagine if Adebayor had shanked that clearance which led to the goal or lost the player for the corner against West Brom that led to the winner.. But its almost like people here feel sorry for Lamela and don't want to hurt his feelings. Some on here have even wished death on Adebayor. Adebayor must be doing something right in training and maybe Soldado is not?

Bulletspur said:

Who said that? I dare you to show me one post that says or suggests that. The Majority or should say all except one or two seem satisfied with result and how we played today. But there is nothing wrong in debating how it probably could have been done better. I get the impression that you and others like @Mr Pink believe we are slating Mopo and his tactics, far from it. Talking for myself I am very encouraged and he has gone up in my eyes especially after just re watching the whole 95 minutes and 7 seconds of the match

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Nothing wrong with discussing how we could do better. Just don't think we've got the personal to go there dominate possession, carve out chances and not leave ourselves open down the other end. I think he set us up effectively to get a result. I think there's a few people who like to think that they're thinkers of the game.

We've been hearing on here for two years how weve needed a manager with a philosophy/methodology/structure you always hear 'how is such and such player going to fit into poch's philosophy. How is this player going to deal with pressing game poch likes to play. Personally if a manager hasn't got the right players for a particular way of playing then adapt the way you want to play to get the most from the players you do have. Maybe evolve over time if you want, but for me thats a measure of a manager.

cozzo said:

Can you imagine if Adebayor had shanked that clearance which led to the goal or lost the player for the corner against West Brom that led to the winner.. But its almost like people here feel sorry for Lamela and don't want to hurt his feelings. Some on here have even wished death on Adebayor. Adebayor must be doing something right in training and maybe Soldado is not?

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A pathetic attempt to try and discredit Lamela. I for one didn't slate Lamela as he at least brought a lot and contributed positively to the game, so could forgive him for this lapse. But yes I would slate Adebayor as he brought NOTHING to either games. I would feel the same if the roles were reversed. So no its not feeling sorry Lamela, but if Ade was to up his game considerably I know he would get the same consideration if he too was to make a mistake.

cozzo said:

Can you imagine if Adebayor had shanked that clearance which led to the goal or lost the player for the corner against West Brom that led to the winner.. But its almost like people here feel sorry for Lamela and don't want to hurt his feelings. Some on here have even wished death on Adebayor. Adebayor must be doing something right in training and maybe Soldado is not?

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I think most said Lamela didn't have a good game, but some posters slate Lamela good or bad.
Bad game equals one assist, another 2 openings created and if Chaldi had looked up when clean through lamela would have scored and a bad clearance.
A little leway here is justified as Lamela always puts a shift in and creates chances, assists for his team mates.
If other player's did what he's doing they would be picked, guess what there not doing it and have had chances but failed to perform.
He's picked on merit currently and his 6 assists prove that.

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

Nothing wrong with discussing how we could do better. Just don't think we've got the personal to go there dominate possession, carve out chances and not leave ourselves open down the other end. I think he set us up effectively to get a result. I think there's a few people who like to think that they're thinkers of the game.

We've been hearing on here for two years how weve needed a manager with a philosophy/methodology/structure you always hear 'how is such and such player going to fit into poch's philosophy. How is this player going to deal with pressing game poch likes to play. Personally if a manager hasn't got the right players for a particular way of playing then adapt the way you want to play to get the most from the players you do have. Maybe evolve over time if you want, but for me thats a measure of a manager.

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Fair comments

Mr Pink said:

Yeah, I just think it was the correct thing to do. Its not like we're showing real signs of Poch's system yet. We arn't, and we have only seen glimpses here and there. Had we replicated similar yesterday they would of beaten us comprehensively.

I really wanted Pochettino because I believe in his philosophy first and foremost, and think its a good way to play football. But it doesn't mean he can't ever deviate away from it if he believes the situation warrants it - and particularly when we arn't even close to implementing it properly either. He showed some flexibility yesterday that pleasantly surprised me, and I think the best managers can show some flexibility when required.

Poch is still learning in terms of what he has here. The fact that he looked at a big derby game in this instance, off the back of some uninspiring performances with little sign of his style coming through yet, and decided to set up in a way which gave us the best possible chance to take Arsenal on at the moment is credit to him IMO.

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Again i agree hopefully this result will drive the team on until he has imposed his way of playing more and then we can really see what we are about.
And yes we know how much you wanted him lol but hopefully the club sticks with him to see how his system pans out we cant afford anymore change.

@Blake Griffin

Why do continually try to boil everything down to a debate about possession.

This isn't a debate about possession v non possession. That's a pointless debate, taken to it's simplest form - winning - non possession gets fucking mullered by possession almost everywhere, in almost any competition worth a wank for decades.

But taken on an individual, game by game, tactical flexibility basis, there is no right or wrong. I have never said there is. I have a general preference, based on what I believe to be proven to be the most successful way to sustain winning, but I accept and very much enjoy tactical variation. The manager I probably respect the most is Mourinho, a man who's has no beautiful possession philosophy, just the ability to adapt and win.

The team I enjoy watching as much as anyone over the last few years is Klopp's Dortmund. Another team who frequently yield possession for a robust press and quick transition game.

Dortmund had 44% of the possession against Arsenal last week, but absolutely caned them. Suffocated them and tore them to shreds.

What I want to see in any approach we take is some cohesion, some intelligence.

What disappointed me enormously yesterday was not that we tried to take a more pragmatic approach. I said before the game, whilst not expecting us to emulate Dortmund, that should be a blue print. In the match thread I said what will matter most will be what we do without the ball. Hardly a possession based concern. I thought the press was what Poch was all about. Look what Liverpool did to them last year. What disappointed me was how poorly we operated this so called "pragmatism".

Our pressing was non existent, certainly until about our own 30 yard line. There was no cohesion to any of our defending, just a lot of backs to the wall desperation. And as for our counter attacking, it was laughable.

The only reason we squeaked a point out of what 2 real chances ? is that Arsenal were so fucking abysmally inept creatively themselves. Not because we were so tactically, or even defensively good.

I think many of you take no account of how tactically poor Wenger can be, and was yesterday. He is failing to get the best out of players like Oezil (played in a position he has repeatedly looked poor in), Wilshere, Sanchez (preferring to play Oxlade Chamberlain who is just Lennon with bollocks) is evidence of that.

I don't mind tactical pragmatism at all, but that is not what I saw yesterday. What I saw yesterday was more tactical vacuumism.

And I am pretty sure 80% of those claiming it, would have been slaughtering it if Lloris doesn't make an incredible save late on. They'd have been the first on here calling it tactical bendoverism and giving everyone 0's, 1's, 2's.

thinktank said:

His first proper season in the EPL has onyl really just begun. He's making assists and has developed a grit and tenacity - granted not always best applied - that was completely alien to him before he came here.

He's broken into the Argentinian international squad and looks much more settled than last season.

He's still trying too hard and is still anxious about his game and proving to people, like you, what he can do.

If he just relaxed and ignored the expectations of others and simplified his game and then built from there he'd sooner arrive back at the artistic, majestic place that got him his move here in the first place.

He needs a proper prem season to fully get to grips. He's not the first high priced player to come to the EPL and struggle with his game and he won't be the last.

People have faith in him because they are not blinded by his price-tag and don't expect the immediate justification for it in his play. They acknowledge it will take time for him to grow into this league.

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I'm just talking about his physical attributes... He's soooo sluggish and as I said, his step overs are very very predictable and they make me cringe.

Bus-Conductor said:

And I am pretty sure 80% of those claiming it, would have been slaughtering it if Lloris doesn't make an incredible save late on. They'd have been the first on here calling it tactical bendoverism and giving everyone 0's, 1's, 2's.

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I don't have an issue with 80% of what you have written, I don't agree with it, but at least you've attacked why and where you think we could have been better.

Where I have an enormous issue, is this little paragraph right here. Lloris might have made one monstrous save, yet last year, when we actually lost the game and came away with nothing, the same goalkeeper made FOUR world class saves to keep us at 1-0 down, yet you tried to describe last year as our "best performance in years at the Emirates" or something similar...with the crux of the reasoning being...we had more fucking possession.

You're all about continuity and application, practice it and preach it mate.