Juande Ramos - Tactical Genius?

SpurSince57 · Nov 26, 2007

If Bale and Chimbonda are going to be pressing forward at every opportunity one of the CMs is going to have to stay back to cover, the way Flamini does for Clichy and Sagna. That goes double as long as we're reliant on Dawson and Kaboul at CB. But it's all going in the right direction.

markie · Nov 26, 2007

TaoistMonkey said:
not sure who this zakora fella is though :shrug:

Is he the guy who runs around like a headless chicken and doesnt really do much?

i think he would make a great 200m runner?

t79boy · Nov 26, 2007

TaoistMonkey said:
definatly, i think JJ has definatly upped his game. I've always been quite critical of the fella and now under ramos you can see he was clearly coasting under jol.

Gotta agree with this :up:

Also another good point raised here is that he doesnt play for the draw or even looks like the type to defend a 1 goal lead.....refreshing to see this approach coz in the last 2 years there have been too many games where we have been leading and then defending and eventually going away with only 1 point !!

orkneyspur · Nov 26, 2007

It was almost like the 'Ossie' days. Five attacking players, Bent, Berbs, Robbie, Steed and Lennon, four other players who kept running forward like ('headless......) Zoko, Chimbo, JJ and Bale and one defender Daws.
I dunno about 'tactical genius', but it makes for exciting viewing. :clap:

Spursking · Nov 26, 2007

It has been a change now when Ramos took over, and Jol did not dare to make changes like that (Kaboul for Bent - defender for a striker). He always thought about protecting.

I believe you have to take a risk to win. Jol did not take the chance, and he lost. If he had taken more chances, he had probably not been without a job now.

I am very happy with Ramos so far.

stevenqoz · Nov 26, 2007

It was 3 5 2.
Good to see a manager who is actually willing not just to change personell in the game but also the way we play in an attempt to get it right.
Don't agree that it was 3 4 3 though. It was 3 5 2 with Zokora almost playing as a sweeper with Dawson, Chimbonda as centre backs, Bale and Lennon the wing backs with Malbranque alongside Jenas in the center with Berbatov the more advanced midfielder in the hole. Bent and Defoe ending as the two attackers.

walworthyid · Nov 26, 2007

markie said:
Is he the guy who runs around like a headless chicken and doesnt really do much?

i think he would make a great 200m runner?

Your sig and this post tell the story I guess! Thought he did quite alot yesterday! Mind you, when/if we do sell him you will just find somebody else to blindly criticise!

SouthLondonSpur · Nov 26, 2007

Great to see it, loved it. Bold, sassy and unexpected.

However if at that point we had lost 3-1, would have been well pissed.

The Apprentice · Nov 26, 2007

Genius? Luck? Naive? Bold?

Such a thin line between each. I'll reserve judgement until Christmas.

ikky · Nov 26, 2007

i'm impressed with the guy already, i like the fact he makes changes early, not in the 75th or 80th minute.

Has1978 · Nov 26, 2007

Seemed to get the best out of Zokora yesterday.

One thing: Brings on a su in the 52nd minute - attacker for a defender. Not quite Mourinho (20th minute) but pretty Ballsy all the same.

Loving all the hand gestures (along with Poyet).Not a clue as to what it means

stemark44 · Nov 26, 2007

TaoistMonkey said:
definatly, i think JJ has definatly upped his game. I've always been quite critical of the fella and now under ramos you can see he was clearly coasting under jol.

I don't think that is the case at all,it looks to me as if Ramos has clearly defined the role he wants Jenas to play whereas Jol wanted him to be a 'Jack of all Trades'.The lad was never sure what was required and ended up trying to do far too much.
He has been our best player in the last two games.

nidge · Nov 26, 2007

Spursking said:
It has been a change now when Ramos took over, and Jol did not dare to make changes like that (Kaboul for Bent - defender for a striker). He always thought about protecting.

I believe you have to take a risk to win. Jol did not take the chance, and he lost. If he had taken more chances, he had probably not been without a job now.

I am very happy with Ramos so far.

Really because you weren't happy with what happened yesterday. :think:

Spursking said:
Overall a very bad performance today. We did not actually deserve the 3 points today. We have to do better than this, and that penalty miss made our day misrable.

We have to improve if we want to be a top team. This is not good enough.

Kaboul did an awful miss today, but overall the team did not play well either. Kaboul had one of his worst games.

We have to keep posession more, we are playing too much long from Robinson.

SpurSince57 · Nov 26, 2007

:rofl:

DC_Boy · Nov 26, 2007

So far so good, and the board getting in Ramos (leaving aside the manner of it) looks like a good move. If we win our next two I'll be moving that to 'looking very good

justfookinhitit · Nov 26, 2007

One thing is for sure - he ain't that impressed with Kaboul and can't wait until our other CBs are fit (esp King).

mendesstormer · Nov 26, 2007

Must admit I'm slightly surprised (and pleased) to see all the positive comments on yesterday's performance. Now I only saw it from about 35 mins onwards, but I didn't see much in there that showed a great improvement compared with games under Jol. We did battle fairly well, but I felt WHam actually battled harder - particularly evident when they were pressing us back deep in our half. We really didn't create much - they had the better chances. Tactical tinkering was interesting - good to see that there is a more flexible approach - but I think Ramos got lucky with it really. The goal clearly wasn't a result of tactical switch, and we created very few clear chances after the changes. Malbranque's miss the only other I can think of (apart from the penalty miss, obviously - which wasn't really a pen.) But it's early days, so we have to be hopeful that the players will learn and develop greater self-reliance, discipline and tactical awareness. I think they'll need more of these qualities for Ramos's approach to succeed.
Final question: did we really play that well in the first half? (to justify all the positive comments) i.e. did we create many clear chances?

Bus-Conductor · Nov 26, 2007

Every time Jol made his "get back in the game sub" he took off Malbranque and put a striker on. Which was stupidity. Taking off one of the only creative players and putting on a player tha relies on service from creaive players. It was, frankly schoolboy tactics.

As someone else said, I'll reserve judgement on Ramos's tactics until we've all had a good look at them, but what he did yesterday against a side sitting back and effectively playing 1 up front made more sense than Jol's always did.

Northernspurs · Nov 26, 2007

Have to say making changes early is def a positive from Ramos. I do think he has guts and love the all out for the win away from home.... keep serving it up Mr Ramos.

Bus-Conductor · Nov 26, 2007

mendesstormer said:
Must admit I'm slightly surprised (and pleased) to see all the positive comments on yesterday's performance. Now I only saw it from about 35 mins onwards, but I didn't see much in there that showed a great improvement compared with games under Jol. We did battle fairly well, but I felt WHam actually battled harder - particularly evident when they were pressing us back deep in our half. We really didn't create much - they had the better chances. Tactical tinkering was interesting - good to see that there is a more flexible approach - but I think Ramos got lucky with it really. The goal clearly wasn't a result of tactical switch, and we created very few clear chances after the changes. Malbranque's miss the only other I can think of (apart from the penalty miss, obviously - which wasn't really a pen.) But it's early days, so we have to be hopeful that the players will learn and develop greater self-reliance, discipline and tactical awareness. I think they'll need more of these qualities for Ramos's approach to succeed.
Final question: did we really play that well in the first half? (to justify all the positive comments) i.e. did we create many clear chances?

We did play well yesterday. We are west hams cup final. Yet they played like an away side, making it hard to create chances. They made chances on the break which is always easier and can create a false impression. We had 57% possession. They comitted 30+ fouls to our 8. We kept the ball well. I know we need to be more creative but actually did create some good chances that were spurned (Keane, Lennon disallowed, Berbatov, malbranque) West Ham had a couple of shots from outside the box and a header. We kept playing football despite being fouled once every 2.5 minutes and maintained our effort level for the full 93 minutes.

It was a good performance.

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