Everton Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[steve]

Wow just saw we subbed dembele off - was he injured? Can't have been tactical surely?

He looked knackered and was possibly limping but don't think it was anything serious.

 

[Syn_13]

This season we have conceded 10 goals in the last fifteen minutes we are told?...............

Just had a little look over our results this year. We've dropped 9 points in the league and been knocked out of a cup through conceding in the last 10 minutes. Those 9 points would've seen us 2 points ahead of Citeh in 2nd place and 4 behind Utd.

Out of our 31 goals conceded in all comps we've let in 12 of them in the last 10 minutes, 10 in the league and 2 against Norwich in the league cup. So pretty much a 3rd of our goals conceded are very late in games and to concede 10 late goals in 16 league matches is pretty shit.

Is it fitness or mentality? Or both? Something just ain't right.

 

[benski]

Last few pages of this thread proves you don't have to know anything about football to be an opinionated football fan. Some incredible chat!

 

[mpickard2087]

'Spurs have now conceded 10 goals in the final 15 minutes of Premier League matches this season, more than any other team. That is a bad habit to be in.'

Once, twice... Even thrice is bad luck. But 10?

It's something that can't be ignored and has to be tackled. You can visibly see the change as SOON as we score; it's crazy.

If we don't change it we will continually throw points after points away.

The worrying thing is I don't think anyone can definitively pinpoint the reasoning behind it

It is a shocking stat.

I don't know what the problems are. I think it is just another symptom of a lack of structure and coherence in our game in both attack and defence. I'll probably get shot down for this but pretty much every one of our games I have watched it and got the impression that we don't have a clue what we are doing or trying to play. (eg. We try to pass out from defence, but no one moves or makes themselves available for the ball and so we plod along the backline for a while before it gets hoofed up the pitch eventually)

To relate this back to these late goals, We just seem to drop deep and the players don't really know what they are doing and its all a bit of a panic. We don't defend as a unit and players get pulled out of the defensive shape all over the place rather than making it tough to break us down. Then when we do get the ball there are no options, we don't seem to know what the out ball is and how to counter attack and relieve pressure. Finally a lot of these late goals have been as a result of the ball dropping to an unmarked player in the penalty area, which suggests either players aren't following runners or someone isn't in the correct position to start with (there shouldnt be any free space in a Penalty area IMO). That this keeps happening suggests to me that we don't do enough work on this, particularly set piece work etc and tracking runners, because the same type of goal keeps getting conceded.

I think all of the above just has to come from hard work on the training ground and drilling the players, particularly how to play as a unit that is tough to break down. It needs to act as one, as if all the players are connected on a piece of string and seamlessly move across the pitch together. You need to drill some team structure into them until its second nature to them. Hopefully then when we do come under pressure they have this framework to fall back on and so they remain defensively solid and do all the right things, rather than lose their heads and wilt under the pressure.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

It is a shocking stat.

I don't know what the problems are. I think it is just another symptom of a lack of structure and coherence in our game in both attack and defence. I'll probably get shot down for this but pretty much every one of our games I have watched it and got the impression that we don't have a clue what we are doing or trying to play. (eg. We try to pass out from defence, but no one moves or makes themselves available for the ball and so we plod along the backline for a while before it gets hoofed up the pitch eventually)

To relate this back to these late goals, We just seem to drop deep and the players don't really no what they are doing and its all a bit of a panic. We don't defend as a unit and players get pulled out of the defensive shape all over the place rather than making it tough to break us down. Then when we do get the ball there are no options, we don't seem to know what the out ball is and how to counter attack and relieve pressure. Finally a lot of these late goals have been as a result of the ball dropping to an unmarked player in the penalty area, which suggests either players aren't following runners or someone isn't in the correct position to start with (there shouldnt be any free space in a Penalty area IMO). That this keeps happening suggests to me that we don't do enough work on this, particularly set piece work etc and tracking runners, because the same type of goal keeps getting conceded.

I think all of the above just has to come from hard work on the training ground and drilling the players, particularly how to play as a unit that is tough to break down. It needs to act as one, as if all the players are connected on a piece of string and seamlessly move across the pitch together. You need to drill some team structure into them until its second nature to them. Hopefully then when we do come under pressure they have this framework to fall back on and so they remain defensively solid and do all the right things, rather than lose their heads and wilt under the pressure.

Well said mate think it would hard to disagree with anything you've said there

 

[panoma]

--------------Lloris
Walker-Kabs---Verts-BAE.

Needs that back 5 fit and healthy and a chance to actually play together for a run of games. The understanding and stability at the back will come from that.

Yes easy to forget we havent been close to fielding our strongest 11 so far, especially at the back we have had to settle for a pair of our 3-5 choice cb's.

 

[eViL]

It's not hard to see what the problem is. We score, we stop attacking.

It's the coaches fault on the training ground/team meetings. It's the Team's fault on match day.

There's not much wrong with our defence to be honest, if we don't constantly threaten to attack, teams are going to have a go at us.

 

[Wirral Spurs]

Lack of pace and ponderous passing cost us today overall. We could have had the 3 points but the soft centre just will not go away.

 

[Blackcanary]

It's not hard to see what the problem is. We score, we stop attacking.

It's the coaches fault on the training ground/team meetings. It's the Team's fault on match day.

There's not much wrong with our defence to be honest, if we don't constantly threaten to attack, teams are going to have a go at us.

That's not what happened today though - we actually looked inspired to keep having a go following the goal, and we were the width of the crossbar away from having a second via Siggy.

 

[Shadydan]

This team last season we had King, Kaboul, Modric, Parker, Modric and Rafa real blend of characters, warriors, players that know how to see games through now they are all missing it's no-councidence that we're letting in late goals for fun this season when we're under the cosh.

The mentality is lacking and we are really paying for it.

 

[SpurSince57]

Huddlestone coming on was odd but Lennon was knackered from tracking back all the time. I would've brought Sig on instead for a straight swap with Lennon. Defoe did nothing second half and we actually looked much better after he went off - Everton didn't create any real sustained pressure, their crowd were fucked off and we were looking very comfortable at 1 - 0. The equaliser wasn't one you 'could see coming' based on the previous 10 minutes of play.

A poor clearance from Caulker when Lloris was there and a poor headed touch by Verts exposed us for the equaliser - individual errors that I can't blame AVB for. Then the winner came from a hopeful ball up - job done.
Townsend is not overly interested in working back from what I've seen - I certainly wouldn't have used him relieve the pressure on the left.

Everton created next to nothing same as us - a draw would've been fair all things considered.

It just seemed very, very late to take Defoe off, and at that stage wouldn't it have been better to be boring and predictable and put Livermore on rather than Falque? Townsend might not be too keen on tracking back, but his presence would have prevented Coleman from pushing forward—it sounded as if he was causing Vertonghen all manner of grief, and we were fortunate his delivery was crap.

Obviously AVB can't be blamed for individual errors like those, and we had soaked up the pressure very well; I'm pretty sure Lloris had as little to do as Howard.

 

[steve]

It just seemed very, very late to take Defoe off, and at that stage wouldn't it have been better to be boring and predictable and put Livermore on rather than Falque? Townsend might not be too keen on tracking back, but his presence would have prevented Coleman from pushing forward—it sounded as if he was causing Vertonghen all manner of grief, and we were fortunate his delivery was crap.

Obviously AVB can't be blamed for individual errors like those, and we had soaked up the pressure very well; I'm pretty sure Lloris had as little to do as Howard.

Coleman was a menace first half but went very quiet 2nd half until the equaliser - maybe AVB had him looked after better?

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Didn't watch the game, have exams tomorrow...Were we deserving of a point over the course of the whole game? Or was us being 1-0 another smash and grab type thing like vs Fulham?

 

[Pete Spur]

It is a shocking stat.

I don't know what the problems are. I think it is just another symptom of a lack of structure and coherence in our game in both attack and defence. I'll probably get shot down for this but pretty much every one of our games I have watched it and got the impression that we don't have a clue what we are doing or trying to play. (eg. We try to pass out from defence, but no one moves or makes themselves available for the ball and so we plod along the backline for a while before it gets hoofed up the pitch eventually)

To relate this back to these late goals, We just seem to drop deep and the players don't really know what they are doing and its all a bit of a panic. We don't defend as a unit and players get pulled out of the defensive shape all over the place rather than making it tough to break us down. Then when we do get the ball there are no options, we don't seem to know what the out ball is and how to counter attack and relieve pressure. Finally a lot of these late goals have been as a result of the ball dropping to an unmarked player in the penalty area, which suggests either players aren't following runners or someone isn't in the correct position to start with (there shouldnt be any free space in a Penalty area IMO). That this keeps happening suggests to me that we don't do enough work on this, particularly set piece work etc and tracking runners, because the same type of goal keeps getting conceded.

I think all of the above just has to come from hard work on the training ground and drilling the players, particularly how to play as a unit that is tough to break down. It needs to act as one, as if all the players are connected on a piece of string and seamlessly move across the pitch together. You need to drill some team structure into them until its second nature to them. Hopefully then when we do come under pressure they have this framework to fall back on and so they remain defensively solid and do all the right things, rather than lose their heads and wilt under the pressure.

This is apparent quite alot especially when we are given time on the ball. I believe the reasoning is quite simple really it involves our lack of a midfield maestro a Zokora type player one who gets the ball and has multiple ideas and options on how to manipulate the play offensively creating panic in the defence with his unpredictable passing genius and sheer quality. Dembele is a quality player but creative quick passing moves aint his main forte he's more a real physical driving force with mad technique a Toure type and he came off because he was knackered and carrying an injury prolly will be all season. We need a Silva/Zokora style muda fuckn pass and move playa ta take da fookn pressha off mane. We're literally one quality midfield player away from kickn everyones ass.

 

[Marty]

This is apparent quite alot especially when we are given time on the ball. I believe the reasoning is quite simple really it involves our lack of a midfield maestro a Zokora type player one who gets the ball and has multiple ideas and options on how to manipulate the play offensively creating panic in the defence with his unpredictable passing genius and sheer quality. Dembele is a quality player but creative quick passing moves aint his main forte he's more a real physical driving force with mad technique a Toure type and he came off because he was knackered and carrying an injury prolly will be all season. We need a Silva/Zokora style muda fuckn pass and move playa ta take da fookn pressha off mane. We're literally one quality midfield player away from kickn everyones ass.

And Zokora, I repeat, Didier Zokora, is the man you'd go for there?

Wow.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Didn't watch the game, have exams tomorrow...Were we deserving of a point over the course of the whole game? Or was us being 1-0 another smash and grab type thing like vs Fulham?

everton were better but it's not like they peppered our goal, they only had 2 on target before their 2 goals in injury time. i didn't think it was smash and grab at fulham, perhaps we have different definitions of that term.

 

[SpurSince57]

This is apparent quite alot especially when we are given time on the ball. I believe the reasoning is quite simple really it involves our lack of a midfield maestro a Zokora type player one who gets the ball and has multiple ideas and options on how to manipulate the play offensively creating panic in the defence with his unpredictable passing genius and sheer quality. Dembele is a quality player but creative quick passing moves aint his main forte he's more a real physical driving force with mad technique a Toure type and he came off because he was knackered and carrying an injury prolly will be all season. We need a Silva/Zokora style muda fuckn pass and move playa ta take da fookn pressha off mane. We're literally one quality midfield player away from kickn everyones ass.

Well, Diddy-A could certainly create panic in a defence. Unfortunately, it tended to be ours.

 

[mpickard2087]

This is apparent quite alot especially when we are given time on the ball. I believe the reasoning is quite simple really it involves our lack of a midfield maestro a Zokora type player one who gets the ball and has multiple ideas and options on how to manipulate the play offensively creating panic in the defence with his unpredictable passing genius and sheer quality. Dembele is a quality player but creative quick passing moves aint his main forte he's more a real physical driving force with mad technique a Toure type and he came off because he was knackered and carrying an injury prolly will be all season. We need a Silva/Zokora style muda fuckn pass and move playa ta take da fookn pressha off mane. We're literally one quality midfield player away from kickn everyones ass.

Ummm.... Zokora?

 

[steve]

Didn't watch the game, have exams tomorrow...Were we deserving of a point over the course of the whole game? Or was us being 1-0 another smash and grab type thing like vs Fulham?

A point would've been fair.

 

[Shadydan]

It just seemed very, very late to take Defoe off, and at that stage wouldn't it have been better to be boring and predictable and put Livermore on rather than Falque? Townsend might not be too keen on tracking back, but his presence would have prevented Coleman from pushing forward—it sounded as if he was causing Vertonghen all manner of grief, and we were fortunate his delivery was crap.

Obviously AVB can't be blamed for individual errors like those, and we had soaked up the pressure very well; I'm pretty sure Lloris had as little to do as Howard.

Hindsight an all that....

Sig hit bar when he came on, if that goes in it's game over and we wouldn't be moaning, if he had put on Livermore and had we lost the game he would be getting criticised from all angles again so for me it was a good change.

There was nothing wrong with the subs I thought, people always say the manager should have done this and that but they're not so sure how the game would have turned out, very easy to say you would have done something to the manager after a loss isn't it.

Still as I alluded to before, our lack of characters is killing us at the moment, we have no real leadership out there and it's costing us big time.