In a 4-2-3-1 which players should be our 2 dM's

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Spot on, the cons far outweigh the pros. Yesterday for their goal was A prime example. Missed the first tackle then half heartedly tried to win it back but failed and they score. His awareness of his runner running off him is shocking too. He can pass it nicely but ffs you need more than that. Look at the players in other sides that play his role they have the lot. He has the passing range but that's it....

He's 20 FFS!!

He definitely lacks some tactical and postional discipline but it's something that comes with experience and coaching IMO. He has the raw ability.

 

[Cravenspurs]

He's 20 FFS!!

He definitely lacks some tactical and postional discipline but it's something that comes with experience and coaching IMO. He has the raw ability.

These kids have been playing for 10+ years and in academies where roles are slowly formed. You either have the defensive passion or you don't personally. Some people develop or change, but that is rare as f*^k.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

He's 20 FFS!!

He definitely lacks some tactical and postional discipline but it's something that comes with experience and coaching IMO. He has the raw ability.

Then the first team is not the place for the Coach to nurture him especially in such an important position within the team. You can teach skill, and positioning sense, but not passion and commitment. He showed neither in that instance yesterday. None whatsoever and it cost the side dearly, gave the opposition hope.

That's how fine this game has become, and carrying passengers is not an option at this level.

 

[Lilbaz]

These kids have been playing for 10+ years and in academies where roles are slowly formed. You either have the defensive passion or you don't personally. Some people develop or change, but that is rare as f*^k.

Yep. We should have given up on Kane at the age of 20.

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

He's 20 FFS!!

He definitely lacks some tactical and postional discipline but it's something that comes with experience and coaching IMO. He has the raw ability.

So he's 20 ? He should play every week ? No! If he was dominating games and tracking his runners then yes keep him in. But he isn't. He got outbattled and out thought against both burnley and Leicester. That's time to have a breather im afraid.

 

[Blake Griffin]

So he's 20 ? He should play every week ? No! If he was dominating games and tracking his runners then yes keep him in. But he isn't. He got outbattled and out thought against both burnley and Leicester. That's time to have a breather im afraid.

he won't be here for the next month so you'll soon get your wish.

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

he won't be here for the next month so you'll soon get your wish.

Hopefully we will have a ready made Central midfielder that ticks all the boxes when he returns, somebody that he can learn off and become a better player.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Yep. We should have given up on Kane at the age of 20.

I am not saying give up. He isn't the defensive enforcer we need to cover our CB's.

Kane has been in attack for his entire upbringing if memory serves correct. We aren't asking him to drop to Midfield.

Bentaleb has been further up the pitch in his development. We are now asking him to drop further back and read a completely different game.

To me that is not giving up as you imply.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Yep. We should have given up on Kane at the age of 20.

Where is anyone on here saying that we should "give up" on any youngster! I guess that you would just keep playing them, run them into the ground and then just throw them away after their confidence is finally shot to pieces?

If you ever studied the way that Fergie, Shankly and even the great Bill Nicholson nurtured talent into their first teams then perhaps you wouldn't have written such a stupid comment.

 

[Lilbaz]

He's 20 he needs game time to gain experience. Fergie I remember being told he couldn't win anything with kids, but I guess he didn't think it was stupid. But he had patience and gave them game time. Bentaleb will learn. If we can get better and have him learn from them then we should. But the more he plays the better he'll get.

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

Where is anyone on here saying that we should "give up" on any youngster! I guess that you would just keep playing them, run them into the ground and then just throw them away after their confidence is finally shot to pieces?

If you ever studied the way that Fergie, Shankly and even the great Bill Nicholson nurtured talent into their first teams then perhaps you wouldn't have written such a stupid comment.

Exactly ! Nobody saying give up !!? But unless they are dominating games and are absolutely integral to our side then they need to be natured properly. Playing bentaleb when he has been left wanting in our last two games is counter productive, sure we want our young lads to learn and get better. But when his form is poor and you stick him in against mata and Rooney then fabregas and Willian is asking for trouble...

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

He's 20 he needs game time to gain experience. Fergie I remember being told he couldn't win anything with kids, but I guess he didn't think it was stupid. But he had patience and gave them game time. Bentaleb will learn. If we can get better and have him learn from them then we should. But the more he plays the better he'll get.

At the expense of us getting overrun in midfield and conceding sloppy goals coz he hasn't tracked his runner or he dangles a foot in coz he can't tackle and we get punished ? No thanks

 

[yankspurs]

WIth who we have? Dembele and Mason....I miss healthy Sandro

 

[dondo]

I like mason and benteleb, stamboli should be given a chance to prove himself and the rest can be sold and replaced with cabaye/Schneiderlin if we get lucky or more realistically delph

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Spot on, the cons far outweigh the pros. Yesterday for their goal was A prime example. Missed the first tackle then half heartedly tried to win it back but failed and they score. His awareness of his runner running off him is shocking too. He can pass it nicely but ffs you need more than that. Look at the players in other sides that play his role they have the lot. He has the passing range but that's it....

Just using Matic as an example, I'm not saying that Bentaleb is the same type of player or is guaranteed to be as successful, but aged 20 Matic had made 2 appearances for Cheslea and two years later aged 22 was being being packed off to Vitesse on loan and then sold to Benfica (or part-exed in for that twat Luiz). No-one was singling him out for a great future in the PL.

Aged 20 (5 years ago) no-one had heard of Schniederlin. He was playing championship football. No-one was saying what a great player he is. No-one was really interested in signing him even this time last year, aged 24 and certainly not 18 months ago.

Neither of those players have a big "trick". Neither are regularly hitting 30 yard screamers like Gerrard or scoring 20 goals a season like Lampard. Neither are just busy ****s either.

Bentaleb clearly has plenty of learning and maturing to do. He may never be Matic or Schneiderlin. But right now he's showing at least as much potential as both of those did.

You qualify his performance against Chelsea by saying it was only after they scored and shelled. But that isn't true, we were playing well before they scored and he was part of that. He was also excellent against Everton, who gave us a very tough game.

It's daft to expect him to not make mistakes, not have indifferent or bad games. But even yesterday, no-one received the ball more than him, no-one made more passes than him. He's showing very promising qualities, both footballing and character.

He doesn't deserve to be an automatic choice, no -one does IMO, but I think we need to acknowledge he's got learning to do, but appreciate what he's bringing and show some patience, because we aren't going to get to sign the 25yo complete versions.

 

[sim0n]

We shoul be playing a 433:

Mason Capoue. Bentaleb

If we must persist with a 4231, for now I'd go with Capoue and Bentaleb.

The bottom line though, is that it really won't matter too much who we play if Pochettino doesn't start getting the team working consciously, coherently and more diligently as a group.

Sorry BC, but Capoue gots to go... too pouty and surplus to requirements IMHO

 

[sim0n]

WIth who we have? Dembele and Mason....I miss healthy Sandro

a healthy Sandro was a mythical beast seen rarely and the stuff of legend,.... just not often enough

 

[miles_64]

Assuming Poch sticks rigidly to his 4-2-3-1 it is pretty clear that the Bentaleb -Mason combination cannot do the job. Many of us would prefer a 4-3-3 with perhaps Dembele as the 3 rd midfield player and a fluid front 3 . But assuming our candidates for the 2 DM's are Mason, Stambouli, Bentaleb and Capoue, plus at a stretch Dembele and Paulinho ( both better in advanced positions ) who would you choose in those 2 holding positions ? For me, despite his poor game today, Bentaleb has to play and I would still give Stambouli a few more games, if only because Mason is looking awful and I really don't rate Capoue. But I have included Dembele and Paulinho in the choices because there aren't that many options.

For me this is a must strengthen area in the window.

I find it bemusing that so many people refer to the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 as Defensive Midfielders. They really don't have to be. In fact they shouldn't be, otherwise you will have very little fluency between defense and attack.

For sure, it requires discipline for one of the pair to stay back when the other has gone forwards. But two out and out DMs? No way.

PS - I'm all for the long-term Mason and Bentaleb play. Take the pain this season. Be awesome next year.

 

[dondo]

Think we have to be careful with benteleb he seems to be very hot or cold since he's come into the 1st team, which is understandable considering his age.
Maybe we should rest him for a few games when his form dips

 

[Lilbaz]

I find it bemusing that so many people refer to the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 as Defensive Midfielders. They really don't have to be. In fact they shouldn't be, otherwise you will have very little fluency between defense and attack.

For sure, it requires discipline for one of the pair to stay back when the other has gone forwards. But two out and out DMs? No way.

PS - I'm all for the long-term Mason and Bentaleb play. Take the pain this season. Be awesome next year.

This is what Sherwood said last year and got slated for it.