In a 4-2-3-1 which players should be our 2 dM's

[prawnsandwich]

You don't get why I posted that?
I think you must be the only one in this discussion who doesn't.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Arrigo Sacchi agrees however, saying football should not be a sport of individual specialists.

I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be. I'm saying few CM's at the top strata level are completely one dimensional and most are happy about that, it goes without saying, but even if a player is one dimensional, if it works for the team for him to be there then that should be OK too.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You don't get why I posted that?
I think you must be the only one in this discussion who doesn't.

It didn't contradict what I said. Was that it's intention ?

It was also factually incorrect.

 

[Lilbaz]

Probably why we need more context of what was actually asked. Ferdinand doesn't mention AVB once in that interview.

 

[prawnsandwich]

Probably why we need more context of what was actually asked. Ferdinand doesn't mention AVB once in that interview.

Who is talking about AVB?

 

[Lilbaz]

Who is talking about AVB?

You put the link up of what Ferdinand said. BC said that it was incorrect as AVB didn't use DM's or whatever. But Ferdinand didn't mention AVB in that interview. As we don't know what the question was we don't know that Ferdinand was talking about AVB's system at all. The journalist might have put it in after.

That is why in those cases unless the reporters questions are posted I only read the quotes of the person being interviewed. And ignore the rest as usually it's the journalist making it more juicy/exciting.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Who is talking about AVB?

The sub headline of that article:

The Spurs coach says that the new team in the dugout all agree that central players should be able to both attack and defend, as opposed to Andre Villas-Boas's system

 

[Lilbaz]

The sub headline of that article:

The Spurs coach says that the new team in the dugout all agree that central players should be able to both attack and defend, as opposed to Andre Villas-Boas's system

But in none of the quotes does he mention AVB or his system.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But in none of the quotes does he mention AVB or his system.

No quotes about AVB. But full of crap. Lke Claud Makalele was the first defensive biased midfielder in the history of football.

 

[Cravenspurs]

He's 20 he needs game time to gain experience. Fergie I remember being told he couldn't win anything with kids, but I guess he didn't think it was stupid. But he had patience and gave them game time. Bentaleb will learn. If we can get better and have him learn from them then we should. But the more he plays the better he'll get.

I am pretty sure @Gaz_Gammon and myself haven't suggested that he needs to be shut out of the team. This thread posed a question on whether the above players can play in a 4231 and we are saying that Bentaleb doesn't look the part to be a defensive star.

To me, and I believe many would agree, that tenacity and courage cannot be a learned behavior.

Roy Keane was a dick. Matic, hurls his body into tackles. Basquets surgically reads the game to position himself as a shield. Alonso breaks up play with desire and the knowledge of angles.

Bentaleb is a player with tight control, a decent pass (errant as of late), and his age to benefit him.

He doesn't put in the tackles we need it have the knowledge of the game to be trusted as our DM. It is just that simple.

I want him to learn and play because I do believe he can learn to read the game better, but tenacity and desire to win the ball back is simply not in his DNA and I truly believe that is an innate characteristic.

Case in point are the stats I linked earlier. Mason wins more tackles (3x as many) and plays further up the pitch. He has more desire and tenacity to break up play.

 

[Cravenspurs]

This is what Sherwood said last year and got slated for it.

Formations, formations, formations.

We all know the fluidity of the game and how people switch positions. But it is clear Poch has a desired system.

Fullbacks fly up the wing (clyne/shaw). When this happens you need one of the CM to sit deep and cover (wanyama) two to link the play (schneiderlin and Davis) and three to put the ball in the back of the net (Lalana, Rod, Lambert)

To me we have the fullbacks to make this happen. Mason and Bentaleb to link with Eriksen, Lamela and Kane. We just need that protecting cover to get the best out our side.

Lloris
Walker Fazio Verts Rose/Davies
---------------CDM
------Bentaleb
--------------------Mason
Lamela ---------------------Eriksen
-----------------Kane

Remember fluidity. Wanyama and Schneiderlin (Bentaleb and CDM) both go forward with Davis, but one sits back while the other moves forward.

To me we are missing a class enforcer. We are currently getting run over in the midfield thus Leicester made the game interesting.

 

[eddiebailey]

Veljkovic and Carroll.

 

[Lilbaz]

For Bentaleb I will say the same as I did for Kane. I will wait until he is 22 to see what type of player he can be.
I would love a class enforcer in the middle a leader.

 

[Derp]

I think every succesfull premier league team needs "steel" in midfield. I can't really remember a team without some grit in midfield. Right now we don't have any and we bought two DMs who isn't very good atm. Bentaleb and Mason is not the answer. They are lightweight. They might be good enough in the future, but right now they are not up to the task. Dembele and Paulinho is also not the answer. Both could play alongside a DM, but not as the DM. Capoue and Stambouli should have been fighting over who should play as the DM, but they have also looked lightweight. I have no idea what the hell happened to Capoue. He was a destroyer in Ligue 1...

 

[KalSpur]

I would group the players into 2 groups.

The destructive group that sits deeper and protects the back 4 more
Bentaleb, Stambouli, Capoue

The creative group that joins in the attack more
Mason, Dembele, Paulinho

Not sure where Chiriches fits in

But a mix of 1 from each group would be the ideal blend for the 2 roles protecting the back 4. Ideally we get an old head and a young energetic one

Paulinho and Dembele in the creative group? Is that because they fit less into the defensive group?

 

[SEANSPURS1975]

If he could get his head right there is a quality player in Capoue, but obviously something's gone on with him and Pochettino. His Tottenham career looks over. Shame. Our most gifted midfielder in my opinion is Dembele. But how many chances does he need to make the position his own? Should be dominating games with his ability. Think he's run out of chances. Shame. Capoue holding, Dembele box to box with Eriksen looks quality. I feel this area is now one of our weaknesses. Capoue and Dembele are obviously not going to start, but the other options aren't great are they? Need to strengthen in this position desperately.

 

[Lilbaz]

Capoue, Kaboul, Ade. All french speaking Africans seem out of favour. Not suggesting racism, probably the opposite. If there has been a falling out in the squad they are more likely to be the ones to stick together. (or is that racist on my part?)

 

[idontgetit]

Formations, formations, formations.

We all know the fluidity of the game and how people switch positions. But it is clear Poch has a desired system.

Fullbacks fly up the wing (clyne/shaw). When this happens you need one of the CM to sit deep and cover (wanyama) two to link the play (schneiderlin and Davis) and three to put the ball in the back of the net (Lalana, Rod, Lambert)

To me we have the fullbacks to make this happen. Mason and Bentaleb to link with Eriksen, Lamela and Kane. We just need that protecting cover to get the best out our side.

Lloris
Walker Fazio Verts Rose/Davies
---------------CDM
------Bentaleb
--------------------Mason
Lamela ---------------------Eriksen
-----------------Kane

Remember fluidity. Wanyama and Schneiderlin (Bentaleb and CDM) both go forward with Davis, but one sits back while the other moves forward.

To me we are missing a class enforcer. We are currently getting run over in the midfield thus Leicester made the game interesting.

Swap Bentaleb for Dembele and you get an enforcer

 

[bobbof]

Of the ones mentioned, Mason is the one who provides most of what we have lacked in midfield earlier, with quick passing and 100% runs off the ball to provide passing options for his team mates. And despite what comes below, I do rate him highly, and have been very impressed with him, especially by what he did in his first games for us this season.
I just feel that against good teams, he shouldn't be played if he doesn't have a proper defensive minded midfielder besides him (which imo we don't have in our squad). He doesn't have the defensive abilities to play the role he has played lately (like against United), and our opponents gets way too much time in front of our defenders. Unfortunately he doesn't manage to close the opponents down as fast as we would like him to, and sometimes the opponents just plays too quick for him to handle. And it's hard to blame him, really, as he's not that type of player either. Against United both him and Stambouli were too slow in the defensive work, and Mata had a stormer in the first half. It was much better after the break, but I hope many of you understand what I mean.

In my opinion, it's obvious that we should look to strengthen the DM position in January, especially considering that Poch's system requires the wing-backs to push higher up the field, and our centre backs to cover a wider area at the back. We need a quality DM that can drop in between the centre backs if necessary, but also who can play a more offensive pressing game if the defense behind him is more balanced. Like a Capoue, but only with intensity, better all-round game, and better pressing abilities. Fazio and Jan seems to have formed a great understanding, but with our wing backs higher up the pitch, we need someone to help them out more than we have been able to.

With a player like that next to him, Mason could be excellent. But I also think Bentaleb has a very high potential, most likely higher than Mason, and in the long run I think it would be best to prioritize him. But that's just my personal opinion, and it's not easy to predict. We have many different types of midfielders in our squad already, and to find the best match is a difficult problem. But I have faith in Pochettino, and I do believe he will manage to sort out the problem eventually, and I look forward to see what he could do later on in the season. I just don't want our midfield to be as lightweight as it was against United today...

So my vote would be:

Against weaker opponents: Mason and Bentaleb
Against harder opponents: tough to say, but maybe Capoue/Stambouli and Dembele or Bentaleb. Would prefer a new signing in january...

EDIT: A midfield trio could also work.

 

[stevenqoz]

Don't agree with the premise of the thread. Prefer to call this a 4 5 1 with three central midfielders either played 2 and 1 or 1 and 2. In the modern game there is an increasing place for wide skill-set players....the young Bentaleb is a prime example....he is the future. Forcing slow thinking, ponderous players such as Capoue into our midfield is not the way. Bentaleb and Mason are our future....Poch's task is to instill into their play all the elements required both with and without the ball. Eriksen is our key to winning games played centrally in the ten. Prefer to convince the Chadli's and Lamella's of the world that they are wide, hard working midfielders who can also get forward than risk the pressure of losing the ball and having them jog trot back towards the ball....if we said it was 4 3 3.