Jan Vertonghen Signs

[ryantegan]

Yes, but not in the league. You can't ask Steven Caulker to come back from a loan spell in the PL with Swansea City being an excellent performer, playing week in week out, to playing a few PL league games here, a few cup games there, it's just not fair on him, or for his progression as a footballer.

If hes good enough he will play

Nothing more needs to be said really

Kyle Walker is a perfect example of that

 

[Ionman34]

caulker should be playing every week though, he's just not going to get that when he has kaboul, dawson, gallas, vertonghen(if he signs) ahead of him and king/nelsen if they're still here. unless we're planning on going to a back 6 anytime soon.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from Blake and, as Sloth has alluded to, it hinges on Redknapp and that really is the worry. We do need to have a player like Caulker available to keep the back line fresh, fit and in form but Harry don't do that. The past 5 seasons or so have demonstrated that we need depth in the CH position and we need to keep them all playing to ensure they are able to slot in seamlessly when required. If HR does that then Caulker should get everything he requires, game time, European experience and time with a team challenging, learning what is required to win rather than survive.
IMO there is no reason for Caulker not to come back, he should have ample opportunity to play if HR manages to utilise his squad correctly. If he does then there is no reason to believe he won't continue to develop further with us rather than with Swansea. Walker hasn't suffered since coming back. He started out this season with question marks over his defensive ability and, I believe, he has steadily improved on that front to the point where he is no longer considered the weak link at the back. That isn't an accident, that is coaching.

 

[sloth]

Has Jake Livermore not played 37 times this season?

I think so

 

[Blake Griffin]

kyle walker was fighting for a place with corluka. caulker will be fighting for a place with kaboul, vertonghen, gallas, dawson and possibly king and nelsen. bit of a difference.

 

[Kingellesar]

We have a similar problem in midfield next season:

Sandro
Parker
Modric
Huddlestone
Livermore

Maybe Jenas if we can't shift him.

Now unless we play the 3 man midfield, we will most likely only be able to play two of those each game and I can't see Livermore getting as much game time, even though I think he has been good this season. It would be hard to not play Huddlestone because he has been good for us. It's a good job none of us are manager, because we would probably all have a word document open full of players names and lists, giving us a headache!

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

Stop complaining about the fact we have squad depth. Not two weeks ago everyone was complaining at the lack of it

 

[Blake Griffin]

i'm not complaining! it's just not good for anyone if caulker is sitting on the bench or in the stands every week when he could be playing every game for swansea and earning more vital experience, he's better off coming back when king, gallas and nelsen are all gone.

 

[mattyspurs]

No, but you can ask him to come back and fight for a starting place like Walker.

R.

Agreed, but Walker wasn't going up against potenially 5 RB's.

He had Charlie, and Hutton who was out of the door.

Caulker will be up against Kaboul who deserves his place, Dawson, vice captain of Spurs. Ledley King (when fit) Captain of Spurs, Gallas (Harry loves Leaders) Possibly Verts (Ajax Captain and paying in excess of 8m for him).

Personally, i am confident that Caulker is good enough to win his place, I just don't trust Harry to rotate him enough to allow him to win his place. However I would love to be proved wrong.

 

[Misfit]

Stop complaining about the fact we have squad depth. Not two weeks ago everyone was complaining at the lack of it

Incredible isn't it? Might as well not fucking bother trying to get CL - or even Europa League - with this sort of attitude. A quality and deep squad is a neccessity and not a luxury if you're serious about challenging. If having such a squad presents a problem and not an opportunity for H, as some seem to suggest, there's only one logical conclusion.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

If hes good enough he will play

Nothing more needs to be said really

Kyle Walker is a perfect example of that

Caulker is not going to get into the first team ahead of Vertonghen, Kaboul or Dawson. That isn't because he isn't good enough ability wise it is more that he isn't experienced enough for Harry to trust him.

Walker is different as he plays in a position that is less fundamental to the team. Plus the skill he offered in blistering pace was more valuable to the team at RB.

Corluka and Pienaar are both good enough to play for spurs. The reason they got dissillusioned is because they saw absolutely no way they would get a game in the first team unless the player in their positioned was injured. Which would have been right in Corlukas case.

Where people have an issue is this makes the players who are not part of the first 12/13 players dissillusioned so they are no used when they do get a chance.

In Caulkers case the only way he is going to prove he is good enough is by going out on loan again. As he won't get a chance in the spurs side unless 4 of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Dawson, King, Gallas are injured simultaneously. That is not going to keep a boy of 20 who has come off an excellent full season of football motivated.

 

[ryantegan]

kyle walker was fighting for a place with corluka. caulker will be fighting for a place with kaboul, vertonghen, gallas, dawson and possibly king and nelsen. bit of a difference.

But the principle remains the same, especially if you consider us a side that should be competing on all fronts next season.

If he is good enough, he will play.

 

[Kingellesar]

But say we buy this Vertonghen, we could potentially have:

Vertognhen
Kaboul
Dawson
King
Gallas
Nelsen
Bassong
Khumalo
Caulker

Now, I know for Stoke, Villa and Everton fans that is a pretty incredible starting 11 near enough but 9 CBs! I think the squad depth issue is more to do with the fact we have no back up RB or RW at the club and our back up LB is clearly not good enough.

 

[sloth]

If hes good enough he will play

Nothing more needs to be said really

Kyle Walker is a perfect example of that

Completely disagree that nothing more needs to be said. Apart from the fact that there are countless examples in football which disprove that theory, it's anyway beside the point.

Personally I don't think Caulker is good enough to command a regular starting spot ahead of Kaboul and Vertoghen. We can be almost certain that Harry would add Dawson to that list. The question is how can we develop Caulker into the sort of player who is better than them? Is it by having him as cover for the main duo (we know absolutely that Harry doesn't rotate his first team, and only last week he was talking about how important it is to have a settled CB pairing and blaming the fact that he's had to change them so often as a contributory factor to recent poor form), and being played in the second 11 in the less important comps (hopefully no Europa league, so that basically means CC)? Or is it by playing week in, week out in the PL?

Add this to the fact that whatever Harry's qualities, he's no coach - the rudimentary training is often reported by players, ITK, former colleagues, former players, and is visibly obvious in the way his teams play - and that Rodger's main quality appears to be his coaching, then I think it's a no-brainer, if Harry stays, Caulker's, and so THFC's best interests in the long-run will be served by him continuing his apprenticeship at Swansea.

 

[ryantegan]

Caulker is not going to get into the first team ahead of Vertonghen, Kaboul or Dawson. That isn't because he isn't good enough ability wise it is more that he isn't experienced enough for Harry to trust him.

Walker is different as he plays in a position that is less fundamental to the team. Plus the skill he offered in blistering pace was more valuable to the team at RB.

Corluka and Pienaar are both good enough to play for spurs. The reason they got dissillusioned is because they saw absolutely no way they would get a game in the first team unless the player in their positioned was injured. Which would have been right in Corlukas case.

Where people have an issue is this makes the players who are not part of the first 12/13 players dissillusioned so they are no used when they do get a chance.

In Caulkers case the only way he is going to prove he is good enough is by going out on loan again. As he won't get a chance in the spurs side unless 4 of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Dawson, King, Gallas are injured simultaneously. That is not going to keep a boy of 20 who has come off an excellent full season of football motivated.

KYLE WALKER!
JAKE LIVERMORE!

Proof is in the pudding

 

[Misfit]

Piss poor squad management is what it was. We had the bodies we needed. They weren't used efficiently, or at all in fact.

 

[Riandor]

Caulker is not going to get into the first team ahead of Vertonghen, Kaboul or Dawson. That isn't because he isn't good enough ability wise it is more that he isn't experienced enough for Harry to trust him.

Walker is different as he plays in a position that is less fundamental to the team. Plus the skill he offered in blistering pace was more valuable to the team at RB.

Corluka and Pienaar are both good enough to play for spurs. The reason they got dissillusioned is because they saw absolutely no way they would get a game in the first team unless the player in their positioned was injured. Which would have been right in Corlukas case.

Where people have an issue is this makes the players who are not part of the first 12/13 players dissillusioned so they are no used when they do get a chance.

In Caulkers case the only way he is going to prove he is good enough is by going out on loan again. As he won't get a chance in the spurs side unless 4 of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Dawson, King, Gallas are injured simultaneously. That is not going to keep a boy of 20 who has come off an excellent full season of football motivated.

Dawson got his chance and took it... up to Caulker to do the same when his time comes and his time will come.

King and Gallas will be out a lot with injury or in need of rest, so the challenge is Kaboul, Dawson and hopefully Vertonghen... that's 4 guys for two spots.

Take in Verts might play LB a few times if BAE is out or in need of a rest (again, assuming he even signs).

Caulker would play, but he has to prove himself, as it should be.

 

[ryantegan]

Completely disagree that nothing more needs to be said. Apart from the fact that there are countless examples in football which disprove that theory, it's anyway beside the point.

Personally I don't think Caulker is good enough to command a regular starting spot ahead of Kaboul and Vertoghen. We can be almost certain that Harry would add Dawson to that list. The question is how can we develop Caulker into the sort of player who is better than them? Is it by having him as cover for the main duo (we know absolutely that Harry doesn't rotate his first team, and only last week he was talking about how important it is to have a settled CB pairing and blaming the fact that he's had to change them so often as a contributory factor to recent poor form), and being played in the second 11 in the less important comps (hopefully no Europa league, so that basically means CC)? Or is it by playing week in, week out in the PL?

Add this to the fact that whatever Harry's qualities, he's no coach - the rudimentary training is often reported by players, ITK, former colleagues, former players, and is visibly obvious in the way his teams play - and that Rodger's main quality appears to be his coaching, then I think it's a no-brainer, if Harry stays, Caulker's, and so THFC's best interests in the long-run will be served by him continuing his apprenticeship at Swansea.

I disagree especially when you see Harry and the coaching staff have all said on more than one occasion how excited they are with the progress of Caulker.

Why criticise a guy for an assumption you have made?

 

[Blake Griffin]

KYLE WALKER!
JAKE LIVERMORE!

Proof is in the pudding

no it isn't!

being good enough to play for a team and actually getting to play for said team are completely different. walker had to beat out corluka, congrats to him he did it. if he had 4 or 5 very good and experienced players ahead of him you think he'd have walked in and played 38 games? livermore has played a lot of minutes across many competitions but only 6 starts in the league, there's no proof in that pudding at all. caulker should be playing a full season as a starting centre back, he will get that with swansea, he won't get it here, yet.

 

[mpickard2087]

But say we buy this Vertonghen, we could potentially have:

Vertognhen
Kaboul
Dawson
King
Gallas
Nelsen
Bassong
Khumalo
Caulker

Now, I know for Stoke, Villa and Everton fans that is a pretty incredible starting 11 near enough but 9 CBs! I think the squad depth issue is more to do with the fact we have no back up RB or RW at the club and our back up LB is clearly not good enough.

Havent we got some Brazilian on loan as well that we are supposedly buying? That would be another centreback to add into the mix!

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

KYLE WALKER!
JAKE LIVERMORE!

Proof is in the pudding

Writing in capitals doesn't make it right.

How many starts has Livermore made? and did we not have an injury crisis season in centre midfield at the beginning of the season. It's not like he Harry much choice but to play him at some points event if he did make the tactical brain fart of playing Kranjcar/Modric in a midfield 2 at one point.

The point is Walker had one player to get in front. Livermore played by default as we were down to the bare bones. Caulker could potentially have to waith for 7/8 other centrebacks to be injured simultaneously.