Ratings vs Everton

[theShiznit]

I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it.

It's not beaten me to it.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Come on boys, this little battle is hardly relevant to the ratings v Everton/ let's all kill Dempsey thread, is it now?

I was going to say the same thing but yooze beaten me to it.

Beaten me?

Beat me?

To be beaten?

Fucking English language...you're all going on ignore.

Then off again.

Then back on.

Fuck off Dempsey.

 

[Spurger King]

It's not beaten me to it.

If only more people were this helpful.

Anyway, back to ratings...

Is Dempsey's nickname 'Deuce' because that's his average rating out of 10?

 

[Wardy]

Well after all the **** I've been giving Adebayor, I never thought I'd be pressing the MOM button for him this year!

Fair play to him.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Holtby albeit is tidy and industrial, appears to lack any end product and would question is he really what we need to push on.
I would also ask the question why no other so called big club here or abroad were keen to take him.

 

[Legacy]

Holtby albeit is tidy and industrial, appears to lack any end product and would question is he really what we need to push on.
I would also ask the question why no other so called big club her or abroad were keen to take him.

No other team seemed interested to take Sandro during the 18 months we were trying for him. No team seemed keen to take Lloris. No other team seemed really bothered about signing Vertonghen.

There were a couple of teams who wanted to sign Dempsey.

Holtby is still young, still adapting and still learning. His composure will improve as he gets more settled.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Lloris - 6 - clumsy on their first goal but otherwise good
Vertonghen - 6 - great cross, then positionally dubious
Dawson - 5.5 - bullied by Anichebe
Caulker - 5.5 - slightly panicky
Walker - 7 - a very good game - had obviously been told by AVB that he was our only pacy attacking option and exploited it
Parker - 6 - a decent game, but it's so frustrating to see him receive the ball in space and then take ages to decide what to do with it
Dembele - 7 - ran the midfield
Sigurdsson - 6.5 - effective when he stayed involved, didn't cut inside too much and scored
Holtby - 6.5 - more focused and less frenetic than of late
Dempsey - 6 - quietly competent, without being distinguished - his best game for quite some time
Ade - 7.5 - a transformation from recent displays - energetic, effective, competitive and the focus of everything good we did

Huddlestone - 7 - an unpopular substitution that turned out to be a very good move - Hudd played extremely well in a deep position, thus enabling everyone else to flood forward - he found his targets every time with long and short passes
Carroll - 6 - filled in competently

Even in the absence of Bale and Lennon, it's actually our defence that has led to our decline in form. From the time we were 2-1 up at Anfield, we have conceded 12 goals in 5-1/3 games and most of them have been defensively bad goals to concede. A system that was working very well to restrict opponents' chances has fallen down because we are conceding 2 goals a game from only 8-10 chances, thanks to sloppy and uncoordinated collective defending.

Surely sarcasm? If not, I'll correct your mistakes:

Dempsey minus 6 - quietly incompetent, without being distinguished - another inept performance.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

No other team seemed interested to take Sandro during the 18 months we were trying for him. No team seemed keen to take Lloris. No other team seemed really bothered about signing Vertonghen.

There were a couple of teams who wanted to sign Dempsey.

Holtby is still young, still adapting and still learning. His composure will improve as he gets more settled.

Slight difference between Sandro, Vertonghen and Lloris is that Holtby was available for nothing. His contract was up and with the exception of us there appears to be no others showing interest. the aforementioned three were all signed for big money.

 

[StartingPrice]

Slight difference between Sandro, Vertonghen and Lloris is that Holtby was available for nothing. His contract was up and with the exception of us there appears to be no others showing interest. the aforementioned three were all signed for big money.

To be fair:

1) Liverpool were very keen on Lufti Holtby and the Whinger made a statement before it was announced that he had agreed to join us in the Summer, saying they were looking at him.

2) Maybe part of the issue was that only a few clubs knew they could attract, and have a realistic chance of getting, him - and his preference for us was well known. He has clearly made a professional decision, based on his perceived level, etc. He is a lifelong Everton fan, and given Moyes financial restrictions I really can't believe that they wouldn't have been in for a player of his quality for free. That suggests to me that, despite Everton being, ATM, the best-of-the-rest, he probably felt that they were below his level (my guess would be serious CL contenders).

 

[ShelfSide18]

Tired bodies, tired minds. It's not a popular angle to take, particularly as it doesn't sit with the comfortable narrative that footballers are all overpaid prima-donnas who have no excuse not to be tired.

Unfortunately though, all evidence points towards the fact that if you play a game after just 2 days rest against a team who's had more you are playing a game with a seriously diminished chance of winning the game. It's no surprise that our game was littered with defensive errors, this is what happens when you have tired legs and minds after an arduous European tie. The only real surprise for me was generally how well we played on thw whole, and managed to find an equaliser when we were running on empty - we will play a lot worse and win games, and it was a shame we didn't have a easier opposition than Everton who are one of the EPLs best 'pain in the arse' sides.

On the balance of play we deserved to win, 61% of the ball, double their shot count (although it should be said we do like to fire in speculative 30 yarders), and for once our play was conducted a little bit more in their final third. This was the first time we've attempted more than 200 final third passes all season, although we squeezed the play so much it did tend to exacerbate our deficiencies in our lack of final ball craft and vision. AVB has overcome this season by making us a pretty ruthless transition team, breaking quickly to catch teams out when disorganised, but when we back teams into a corner, we are pretty toothless it must be said.

With no Bale or Lennon our play that has defined us under AVB was a no go, and we saw the first glimpses of a 4-3-3 although the problems I pointed out playing this system in the pre match thread did become apparent unfortunately, although we did do well not to isolate Adebayor up top because we condensed the play so well in Everton's half - the problems began when we had Siggy on the left, Dempsey on the right and they both drifted infield as comes naturally to them, rather than having at least one wide player looking to stretch the play in behind. You end up with a central area congested with central midfielders, entirely dominating possession but having no one offering a vertical option in behind. Ade tried to make runs into space but Everton were comfortable marking him knowing that Lennon and Bale weren't about to dart in behind them. 4-3-3 needs at least 1 wide player to be direct iin behind, even Spain found this out in Euro 2012 when they discovered that having the best collection of CMs on the planet means fuck all if they can't supply anyone. I look forward to seeing that system with Lennon and Bale in the side.

I actually thought the Hudd for Dembele sub broadly worked despite, to put it mildly, not being Hudds greatest fan. Dembele had a good game and thought maybe it should have been Parker who made way, but it had got to the point that Everton were so deep that Dembele was running into such heavy traffic that he was nullified, and generally fails to see that final killer pass. Because they were so deep, Hudd had his own personal postcode to spread the play and he did this well - rather than us trying to open up a defensively drilled side with sadly the incorrect tools for the job, we needed to switch the play wide and attack them there, and that is exactly how our equaliser materialised. It wasn't a popular sub, and I'm no great fan of Hudd but the switch was tactically sound in my opinion.

What isn't tactically sound is playing Dempsey from the start, he offered nothing of any note.

This is going to go down to the wire, but whilst the short term is what most people get carried away with at this time of the season even more so than usual, we are progressing under AVB, and the future is very bright. I wish the moronic section of our support would get this, once again WHL wasn't a particularly pleasant place to be at times yesterday and with renewals looming it is going to be harder decision than it has been in the past. Some of the brightest times Spurs have had for many a long year and I'm considering whether to renew my ticket next year because a bunch of dickheads ruining going to WHL, it just doesn't begin to stack up.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

To be fair:

1) Liverpool were very keen on Lufti Holtby and the Whinger made a statement before it was announced that he had agreed to join us in the Summer, saying they were looking at him.

2) Maybe part of the issue was that only a few clubs knew they could attract, and have a realistic chance of getting, him - and his preference for us was well known. He has clearly made a professional decision, based on his perceived level, etc. He is a lifelong Everton fan, and given Moyes financial restrictions I really can't believe that they wouldn't have been in for a player of his quality for free. That suggests to me that, despite Everton being, ATM, the best-of-the-rest, he probably felt that they were below his level (my guess would be serious CL contenders).

I think that you could be possibly correct in your assumptions, however I'm still to be convinced he is any better than what we already have.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

...with renewals looming it is going to be harder decision than it has been in the past...

True 'dat.

 

[Shadydan]

Holtby albeit is tidy and industrial, appears to lack any end product and would question is he really what we need to push on.
I would also ask the question why no other so called big club here or abroad were keen to take him.

I think we need to remember that he's still a very young player, his performances for Schalke suggest that there's a player in there not to mention being the U21 captain of his NT.

Think a little patience is in order for him to really start showing what he's made of.

 

[ShelfSide18]

True 'dat.

Ah, I was hoping a lot more of my post was true than just that - it took me ages typing it at work trying to avoid getting caught, you have to admire the effort at least.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Ah, I was hoping a lot more of my post was true than just that - it took me ages typing it at work trying to avoid getting caught, you have to admire the effort at least.

Try typing it on a fucking iPhone like I did mine...

I agree with some, and not so much with some, but I always like your posts. They are sexy, the AVB of postings if you will.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It wouldn't have been an unnecessary free kick though! He's a fleet footed attacker who is running at the last man who isn't a fleet footed defender and got I'm in all sorts of trouble as he's being forced to back off into his own penalty area where he won't be able to challenge.

It may well be hindsight but at the time I and I'm sure plenty of others were saying 'foul him', some free kicks even in dangerous areas are worth conceding, this was one f those occasions! I'm pretty sure after he scored that Parker would have walked away and thought to himself he'd made a mistake in not clipping him.

I'm pretty sure Parker does have a little nibble at him and fails to clip him hard enough.

 

[Legend10]

I'm pretty sure Parker does have a little nibble at him and fails to clip him hard enough.

From what i recall he nibbled and then pulled out so as not to foul!

Scott's an experienced player, he knows that he has to foul him there, I'm sure he would have been really disappointed with himself!

There were so many mistakes in that goal it was untrue, it's no one players fault but we just don't look anywhere near as solid without Sandro. Ultimately if any one injury costs us a CL place this season it will have been that one.

 

[garyhopkins]

Have to agree with the possibility that some of our players are getting tired and mistakes are increasing. As such it was pleasing that we managed a late equalizer again. Our players don't give up and we shouldn't either. We still have a good chance of the CL and a trophy; although some posters seem to disagree.
Anyway, we may not be perfect, nor as flamboyant as under 'arry, but we still usually participate in highly entertaining games. The boys fought hard against tough competitors. We lack width and a little guile, but it's still all to play for and I am looking forward to the run-in - I'm sure it's going to be very exciting.

Lloris 6
Walker 6.5
Vertonghen 5.5
Dawson 5
Caulker 5
Parker 6
Dembele 6.5
Holtby 6
Sigurdsson 6
Dempsey 4
Adebayor 7.5
sub
Huddlestone 6.5

 

[dagraham]

Have to agree with the possibility that some of our players are getting tired and mistakes are increasing. As such it was pleasing that we managed a late equalizer again. Our players don't give up and we shouldn't either. We still have a good chance of the CL and a trophy; although some posters seem to disagree.
Anyway, we may not be perfect, nor as flamboyant as under 'arry, but we still usually participate in highly entertaining games. The boys fought hard against tough competitors. We lack width and a little guile, but it's still all to play for and I am looking forward to the run-in - I'm sure it's going to be very exciting.

Lloris 6
Walker 6.5
Vertonghen 5.5
Dawson 5
Caulker 5
Parker 6
Dembele 6.5
Holtby 6
Sigurdsson 6
Dempsey 4
Adebayor 7.5
sub
Huddlestone 6.5

This was always a danger and on the cards from the moment AVB played the same 11 for every Europa Game. I applaud him for taking it seriously but we were so gash anyway in the group stages that playing some younger/hungrier fringe players would have been far more productive imo. With a bit more game time, players like Townsend may have not been so keen to go out on loan and increased our squad depth at the back end of the season.

It also doesn't help that we have only two genuine strikers, one out and out winger (Bale hasn't played as one for some time) and only one geuine ball player in Dembele.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Tired bodies, tired minds. It's not a popular angle to take, particularly as it doesn't sit with the comfortable narrative that footballers are all overpaid prima-donnas who have no excuse not to be tired.

Unfortunately though, all evidence points towards the fact that if you play a game after just 2 days rest against a team who's had more you are playing a game with a seriously diminished chance of winning the game. It's no surprise that our game was littered with defensive errors, this is what happens when you have tired legs and minds after an arduous European tie. The only real surprise for me was generally how well we played on thw whole, and managed to find an equaliser when we were running on empty - we will play a lot worse and win games, and it was a shame we didn't have a easier opposition than Everton who are one of the EPLs best 'pain in the arse' sides.

On the balance of play we deserved to win, 61% of the ball, double their shot count (although it should be said we do like to fire in speculative 30 yarders), and for once our play was conducted a little bit more in their final third. This was the first time we've attempted more than 200 final third passes all season, although we squeezed the play so much it did tend to exacerbate our deficiencies in our lack of final ball craft and vision. AVB has overcome this season by making us a pretty ruthless transition team, breaking quickly to catch teams out when disorganised, but when we back teams into a corner, we are pretty toothless it must be said.

With no Bale or Lennon our play that has defined us under AVB was a no go, and we saw the first glimpses of a 4-3-3 although the problems I pointed out playing this system in the pre match thread did become apparent unfortunately, although we did do well not to isolate Adebayor up top because we condensed the play so well in Everton's half - the problems began when we had Siggy on the left, Dempsey on the right and they both drifted infield as comes naturally to them, rather than having at least one wide player looking to stretch the play in behind. You end up with a central area congested with central midfielders, entirely dominating possession but having no one offering a vertical option in behind. Ade tried to make runs into space but Everton were comfortable marking him knowing that Lennon and Bale weren't about to dart in behind them. 4-3-3 needs at least 1 wide player to be direct iin behind, even Spain found this out in Euro 2012 when they discovered that having the best collection of CMs on the planet means fuck all if they can't supply anyone. I look forward to seeing that system with Lennon and Bale in the side.

I actually thought the Hudd for Dembele sub broadly worked despite, to put it mildly, not being Hudds greatest fan. Dembele had a good game and thought maybe it should have been Parker who made way, but it had got to the point that Everton were so deep that Dembele was running into such heavy traffic that he was nullified, and generally fails to see that final killer pass. Because they were so deep, Hudd had his own personal postcode to spread the play and he did this well - rather than us trying to open up a defensively drilled side with sadly the incorrect tools for the job, we needed to switch the play wide and attack them there, and that is exactly how our equaliser materialised. It wasn't a popular sub, and I'm no great fan of Hudd but the switch was tactically sound in my opinion.

What isn't tactically sound is playing Dempsey from the start, he offered nothing of any note.

This is going to go down to the wire, but whilst the short term is what most people get carried away with at this time of the season even more so than usual, we are progressing under AVB, and the future is very bright. I wish the moronic section of our support would get this, once again WHL wasn't a particularly pleasant place to be at times yesterday and with renewals looming it is going to be harder decision than it has been in the past. Some of the brightest times Spurs have had for many a long year and I'm considering whether to renew my ticket next year because a bunch of dickheads ruining going to WHL, it just doesn't begin to stack up.

I actually don't think fatigue was the issue SS. I think we were pretty good energy wise, mentally and physically and Caulker, Walker and Dawson had played no/only some football in the week so no reason why they would be the worst culprits. Their mistakes were just usual traits coming through IMO. I thought all facets of our mental and physical effort were as good as any we've seen, just a general underlying lack of top level guile was lacking.

The problem of no Lennon (who has crated very little of late anyway) should have been mitigated by Walker if Walker was the player many believe him to be - an attacking full back - but he contributes so little of quality and is evidence that pace is not everything, unless you have the wherewithal to combine it with intelligence or skill. So many times he received the ball in a bit of space, often with just one man in front but virtually the whole game managed nothing of note. Sometimes worse, conceding the ball cheaply.

And I don't think Hudd for Dembele was right in either direction. For me Dembele is just about tenacious enough to leave on knowing you aren't going to sacrifice defensively, especially if you bring on the more mobile and dynamic Carroll who actually would have got through at least as much ball as Hudd, spreads play just as well and is actually more likely to thread a clever little through ball than Hudd. Leaving Dembele on at least would have left on the pitch the only player capable of carrying the ball past his marker and it was one instance of this that nearly equalised for us almost straight after they scored.

For me the subs should have Carroll for Parker, Cabellos for Dempsey (preferably made in the 2nd minute).