Match Ratings Ratings vs Manchester UTD

[aussie spur]

Let's be clear, Dier was probably our best player vs Newcastle and then also very good against Fulham.

This is the bit I disagree with.

The debate about it is long running, but the above post basically demands further debate.

 

[Mr Pink]

Bit of a rollercoaster of a game. At times frantic, messy, bit chaotic, defensive errors, glaring misses, and then thankfully for us in the second half a smash and grab effort, and three moments of quality that punctuated the game and gave us a very satisfying win.

You expect these sort of games to be a bit tight and tense, both teams maybe not showing their best under the pressure. The first half though was a real slog, for both teams, in all sorts of ways. United came out and put in a real effort (Gary Neville pretty spot on post-game saying that it was a little bit frantic/desperate) and to be quite honest for the first half hour at least had us pretty rattled, as we do sometimes/often (delete the one your opinion finds applicable) get when a team rushes us and forces certain players out of their comfort zone and gives them the hurry up. Passes weren't sticking, we were struggling to play our way up the pitch, we had players stop offering themselves to the man on the ball. It was difficult going.

United's extra bluster I'd say saw them shade the first half, but really both teams were a mirror image of each other. Struggling to move the ball about, a bit sloppy, and both teams defensively looked vulnerable - our shape wasn't great, with individuals making poor decisions/reads/choices when going about their work, and some spectacular errors that the opposition really should have punished.

HT wasn't very comfortable, we were still in it but the consensus seemed to be we had to play a lot better.... To be quite honest the start to the second half didn't look to promising, because straight away in the opening seconds we made some silly errors and were immediately defending our own box again. You thought it might be another of those days at Old Trafford.

But then the smash and grab came. Kane's header was superb, moments later (though admittedly Lukaku nearly equalised in between) a couple of passes down the right into space and Moura is on hand to sweep home at the end of the move. It can change so quickly, sport.....

The game then settled back into it's pattern. Us being forced back a little and trying to protect the lead, not a lot of spectacular football, both defences looking quite suspect and inviting pressure on themselves. However as the game got into the latter stages we managed to scramble pretty well around our own penalty area and snuff out any moments of danger. United just couldn't get back from those hammer blows and rather limped towards the final few minutes, and we had a final flourish with Moura's electric goal. Superb. We also had a little bit of luck, because for some reason Poch was going to sub off Moura prior to that (why!?), but Rose forced a rethink of those plans.

Three wins out of three is a good start, any win at Old Trafford is a great result..... Yet I still don't think we have played well as of yet. We haven't played our best football, some individuals still aren't firing at 100%, and yet again in this game I thought our pressing, our defensive shape, and compactness was really quite poor and nowhere near what Poch's team does at it's best. That should be encouraging for us fans that we know there is more to come, but lets hope the team are also aware of this and don't rest on their laurels.....


Lloris - A few sloppy moments with the ball at his feet, made a couple of good saves when required.

Trippier - Felt he had a poor game. Involved in the build up to the second goal, but constantly (no exaggeration) made poor reads/choices/decisions in defence, when/who to press for example, and often opened up gaps down his flank.

Alderweireld - Probably his best game for about two years. A couple of minor errors but stood firm, defended well, and mopped up for others throughout. The big man is back.

Vertonghen - Wasn't perfect, another who made some poor choices at times and got exposed down his channel and needed bailing out. Did defend our box pretty well late on though when we were under pressure.

Rose - Much like Trippier, positionally wasn't great a lot of the time and allowed too much down his flank. Also nearly gifted them a goal with that backpass. Improved a bit in the second half, but still looks to be really struggling physically.

Dier - Maybe his worst ever game in central midfield, I'm afraid. First half the pace and frenetic nature just blew him away, he couldn't keep up. Second half the game largely passed him, even when we were being forced to defend for periods of time.

Dembele - Slug for about 60 minutes, his only real contributions were to hand United attacking opportunities, but helped our defensive effort late on and did work hard to cover ground.

Eriksen - Involved for the second goal, but still looks a yard off the pace and this system I don't think is helping him with the ball, or without it. Looks a bit unsure of his surroundings.

Alli - Work rate was ok, use of the ball wasn't fantastic.... And wasted a couple of great chances, cant use his left foot to save his life/tap in an open goal.

Moura - Far and away our best player. For the second week in a row performed heroics by basically being a one man pressing effort. Tenacious, competed for everything, ran his bollocks off and chased down everything, forced mistakes, and for doing this work he was justly rewarded. Composed for his first goal, electric for his second. Bravo.

Kane - Great header, stats will say he also got an assist, but come on the rest was pretty sluggish. You look at his striker partner competing for everything, chasing down defenders, giving 110% for the cause, and think he used to do that once upon a time........

Subs:
None really had enough time on the pitch.

I find the analysis of the first half really strange from some people. Not you mate, that second paragraph is bang on.

United shaded d a very scrappy half, but both teams wasted situations and passing often poor from both.


But a lot of exaggeration from some on United's first half performance. They did a better than recent weeks but it was just odd the way some people viewed it.

 

[Primativ]

For me Dier is the clear and obvious upgrade we need to make in the side. He is way too passive in that role. I hope Wanyama gets fit soon.

 

[mpickard2087]

I find the analysis of the first half really strange from some people. Not you mate, that second paragraph is bang on.

United shaded d a very scrappy half, but both teams wasted situations and passing often poor from both.


But a lot of exaggeration from some on United's first half performance. They did a better than recent weeks but it was just odd the way some people viewed it.

Yeah they weren't blowing us away. I saw a stat on twitter that the first half had the most unsuccessful passes in the PL so far this season (Cardiff v Newcastle, a game everyone was saying was absolutely god awful, pushed into 2nd place) with us just shading that, umm, battle. Think that sums up the lack of quality from both teams. As I said, I gave it to them as I thought they had a bit more bluster and we looked slightly more uncomfortable in playing our way up the pitch, but both teams committed many many errors and it was all a bit of a slog...... That we ultimately ended up managing to strike the killer blows.

 

[Gb160]

Fair play to Jose for paying tribute to Aretha at the end of his press conference.

 

[Tottenham_God]

For me Dier is the clear and obvious upgrade we need to make in the side. He is way too passive in that role. I hope Wanyama gets fit soon.

Whats happening with Wanyama? so much better than Dier

 

[coys200]

We weren’t that poor 1st half could easily have gone in 2-1 up or 2-2. They had one clear cut chance and the rest were half chances, which tbh you’d expect from united at home especially off the back of Brighton. They were always gonna be pumped up for it. We had a stone wall penalty denied and dele just had to square for a kane tap in. Yes they were the better team in 1st half but not dramatically better. Ironically their 2 or 3 chances in 2nd half were better. 0-3 was flattering and 2-3 would probably have been a fairer reflection. But if you don’t take your chances in these games you get punished.

 

[danielneeds]

Not to go all BC, but it's a funny old game sometimes. First half, we were ever so close to imploding in the way we usually do away from home against our rivals when they press us high, including the obligatory suicidal backpass. Defence and midfield looked shaky, and were coughing up the ball cheaply, time and time again. Thankfully Lukaku is useless on his right peg, and United's pressing petered out when their adrenaline wore off.

As is often the the way in tight games, a good set piece makes all the difference. Trippier really could be the key to our season here. His confidence and reliability from corners and free-kicks may turn out to be a game-changer in clutch situations, and something that's been sorely missing the last couple of seasons as Eriksen's mojo has waned in this area somewhat.

Having got ahead, it was so pleasing to see us put our foot on their throat, and kill the game efficiently. We're still not really purring as a side, and have a lot of improving to do if we want to match Liverpool and City in the games coming up, but given the challenging set of circumstances we were facing at the end of the summer, I'm so impressed at the way we've started. Poch deserves so much credit for his calmness and the way he's radiated that throughout the squad. Love the guy so much.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I find the analysis of the first half really strange from some people. Not you mate, that second paragraph is bang on.

United shaded d a very scrappy half, but both teams wasted situations and passing often poor from both.


But a lot of exaggeration from some on United's first half performance. They did a better than recent weeks but it was just odd the way some people viewed it.

Nah mate, you can only play well by controlling the game from start to finish and conceding no real chances...

Have to agree with you, we had to weather a storm, their team and crowd were bang up for it, they knew how big a game it was. You can't always defuse that. We were nervy and had to rely on our quality CBs and quality GK to keep them out (which is why we employ them), but they didn't create a hatful of chances either, it was frantic and scrappy and they killed our rhythm. It was a rope-a-dope kinda game. After 30-35 mins when they lost their bluster our quality started to show and their cracks started to appear.

I agree that there are a lot more 6s and 7s individually than you'd usually expect in a 3-0 at Old Trafford but that was a big win. How many times have we been done like that vs top sides? Roles reversed last night!

 

[Trix]

That's abit harsh......i'm sure winning the CL with Porto took some degree of coaching.

Not really, he's a good manager as in picking the side and motivating them etc. That's very different to coaching the players and especially their deficiencies. It's no coincidence that he won't use his accademy players and buys in experienced pros instead. Just look at who has been released under his tenure and where they are now. Can you think k of another manager with as many high profile fuck ups as far as releasing young players, that have gone on to be top class players?

 

[EastLondonYid]

Not really, he's a good manager as in picking the side and motivating them etc. That's very different to coaching the players and especially their deficiencies. It's no coincidence that he won't use his accademy players and buys in experienced pros instead. Just look at who has been released under his tenure and where they are now. Can you think k of another manager with as many high profile fuck ups as far as releasing young players, that have gone on to be top class players?

Porto proved he can coach.....

Yes he has become so arrogant he demands money and quick fix where ever he goes and his record gets it...After Porto.

That doesn't mean he hasn't or cannot coach,.

You cannot win so much with no coaching skills Porto DID prove that he can win the biggest prize without a great team.

Even with the other teams after Porto, he may buy top players but always tinkers with systems and coaches his sides.

 

[Trix]

Porto proved he can coach.....

Yes he has become so arrogant he demands money and quick fix where ever he goes and his record gets it...After Porto.

That doesn't mean he hasn't or cannot coach,.

You cannot win so much with no coaching skills Porto DID prove that he can win the biggest prize without a great team.

Even with the other teams after Porto, he may buy top players but always tinkers with systems and coaches his sides.

You can win plenty and not be a great coach, as long as you makes sure your back room team are top notch, because they deal with all that for you. Redknapp did next to nothing as far as coaching was concerned, and even Fergie made sure he had a great coach as his number 2, because that was not something he was strong at. Like I said there is a huge difference between great coaches and great managers, just because you can do one role it doesn't mean you can do the other.

I think it was Salah who said his time at Chelsea was a real low point because Jose hardly spoke to him, and was only interested in his starting/experienced players.

 

[Shadydan]

Porto proved he can coach.....

Yes he has become so arrogant he demands money and quick fix where ever he goes and his record gets it...After Porto.

That doesn't mean he hasn't or cannot coach,.

You cannot win so much with no coaching skills Porto DID prove that he can win the biggest prize without a great team.

Even with the other teams after Porto, he may buy top players but always tinkers with systems and coaches his sides.

Porto was over 14 years ago, different times, different players and different managerial competition and I think he was hungrier back then and during his first Chelsea stint anyway.

I think since then he has had jobs where he hasn't had to coach players as such, he's always bought in players who are either near or at their peak and his players have had the mentality of winners...his Chelsea and Inter teams were the perfect embodiment of him.

However this day and age I think players need to be nurtured and managed differently, there's not many captains and leuitenants playing especially compared to a decade ago for example so ultimately players rely on man management and encouragement which is something he doesn't excel at, and the fact that 3 of his direct rivals are know for excellant man manager skills and their coaching just exposes him even further.

Jose was once an excellant coach but his coaching methods in this day and age are just outdated.

 

[EastLondonYid]

You can win plenty and not be a great coach, as long as you makes sure your back room team are top notch, because they deal with all that for you. Redknapp did next to nothing as far as coaching was concerned, and even Fergie made sure he had a great coach as his number 2, because that was not something he was strong at. Like I said there is a huge difference between great coaches and great managers, just because you can do one role it doesn't mean you can do the other.

I think it was Salah who said his time at Chelsea was a real low point because Jose hardly spoke to him, and was only interested in his starting/experienced players.

iF you acknowledge his backroom staff have been coaching than you acknowledge his teams have been coached and not just put together buy spending....than how have you access to knowing he doesn't participate in any coaching with his staff.

 

[yusrisafri]

Trippier is a world class WB but an average FB. When he doesnt attack, he looks pretty average. I'd still have him over aurier though

 

[danielneeds]

You can win plenty and not be a great coach, as long as you makes sure your back room team are top notch, because they deal with all that for you. Redknapp did next to nothing as far as coaching was concerned, and even Fergie made sure he had a great coach as his number 2, because that was not something he was strong at. Like I said there is a huge difference between great coaches and great managers, just because you can do one role it doesn't mean you can do the other.

I think it was Salah who said his time at Chelsea was a real low point because Jose hardly spoke to him, and was only interested in his starting/experienced players.

Ditto Brian Clough, hardly coached at all. All about the man management.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Ditto Brian Clough, hardly coached at all. All about the man management.

Have we got proof that he doesn't coach at all?

I agree he does manage more than he coaches, but with his massive ego and mouth i can't believe he doesn't participate in coaching at all.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Ditto Brian Clough, hardly coached at all. All about the man management.

And spent alot of time in his office lubricating.

 

[Shadydan]

Have we got proof that he doesn't coach at all?

I agree he does manage more than he coaches, but with his massive ego and mouth i can't believe he doesn't participate in coaching at all.

Come on of course he coaches players lol what I suspect people mean by coaching them is getting a tune out of them and improving them. You can compare him to Pochettino, Klopp and Pep and see how they get the maximum out of their players and how they develop their players whilst you can't really say the same about Mourinho especially in the last few years, not many players get better under his tutelage.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Come on of course he coaches players lol what I suspect people mean by coaching them is getting a tune out of them and improving them. You can compare him to Pochettino, Klopp and Pep and see how they get the maximum out of their players and how they develop their players whilst you can't really say the same about Mourinho especially in the last few years, not many players get better under his tutelage.

I agree he probably goes for the quick fix nowadays,

But just ask Frank Lampard what he did for him, and many others too.


I was merely disputing TRIX's claim that Jose NEVER been a coach of players, which IMO is absurd.