Rugby 6 Nations 2013

[nightgoat]

Still a squad in its infancy though so won't be surprised if they drop the ball at some point in this tournament. Hope they keep them together up to 2015 though.

Yeah, although in the four years up to the 2003 World Cup England only won one Grand Slam, in 2003, so it wouldn't be a disaster for England to even come second this year. When you consider stats like how against New Zealand the entire England team had fewer caps than Ritchie McCaw and Dan Carter put together you realise how much this is a team for the next three, four, five years. I don't think any of England's starting IX against Ireland have 40 caps yet.

 

[mpickard2087]

Still a squad in its infancy though so won't be surprised if they drop the ball at some point in this tournament. Hope they keep them together up to 2015 though.

Definately, its a learning curve right now. Even if we beat Ireland this weekend, I still wouldn't bank on a Grand Slam. I can easily forsee us losing one of those remaining fixtures. France can turn it on at any time and a Wales team in tough times that can't really sink much lower, in Cardiff, possibly being the one thing stopping a Grand Slam... well you'd have to think they would just come out, rise to the occasion and throw the kitchen sink at it.

 

[mpickard2087]

Yeah, although in the four years up to the 2003 World Cup England only won one Grand Slam, in 2003, so it wouldn't be a disaster for England to even come second this year. When you consider stats like how against New Zealand the entire England team had fewer caps than Ritchie McCaw and Dan Carter put together you realise how much this is a team for the next three, four, five years. I don't think any of England's starting IX against Ireland have 40 caps yet.

Yeah the stats really do highlight how little experience the squad has at international level. Without looking having them in front of me right now, I'd say that the majority of them only have about 10-15 caps, and some of them even less than that.

Really shows its a learning process, and that there will inevitably be ups and downs. Hopefully the fans and media can actually understand this, rather than having too much expectation for things such as Grand Slam's at this stage.

 

[nightgoat]

And the downs can be just as valuable experience as the ups. I don't think it can be understated how much missing out on two consecutive Grand Slams in the last game, then finally winning the 2003 Grand Slam aided England in terms of winning the World Cup.

 

[SugarRay]

England Team to face Ireland

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Copied and pasted chaps.

Dan Cole is the boss. That is all.

 

[mpickard2087]

Dan Cole is the boss. That is all.

Definately. Right now I think he is the only person who is a nailed on cert in his position for the Lions.

 

[SugarRay]

Definately. Right now I think he is the only person who is a nailed on cert in his position for the Lions.

Don't let a Welshman hear you say that!

I love Adam Jones but you are right. Cole has usurped him.

Would also say Sexton has his position sewn up.

 

[nightgoat]

238 caps in the starting XI. Brian O'Driscoll has 121.

 

[nightgoat]

Don't let a Welshman hear you say that!

I love Adam Jones but you are right. Cole has usurped him.

Would also say Sexton has his position sewn up.

I'm not so sure about Sexton. If Farrell continues to improve his all-round game he has recently it'll be very close between the two of them. Out of anyone else I think Rory Best is closest to being assured of his place, which is as much down to a lack of serious competition more than anything else.

 

[SugarRay]

Yeah, I thought Hartley might push him but Lancaster sticking with Youngs, who I will admit, surprised me a touch in the Autumn is killing his chances.

Hopefully Gatland is fair with his selections. I can see a kind of Celtic nation developing in this years Lions. Warburton for example, shouldn't even be considered for Wales right now let alone captaining the Lions.

Do you think he will take any of the French based players? Hines, Sheridan, S.Armitage etc should all travel, possibly Wilko too given the FH situation beyond Farrell.

 

[nightgoat]

Dylan Hartley has always been far too inconsistent with his line out throws for me, just like Steve Thompson was before him. If Youngs stays in the team ahead of Hartley then I can see him pushing for a place in the squad.

It's a tough situation, because Wales have got so many players injured or out of form who a year ago would have been considered nailed on starters for the Lions. Scotland have got a few good players coming through but only Richie Gray who will threaten for a place in the test team I think, but I can still see it being a fairly even split between England, Ireland and Wales.

I think Sheridan will go, but I don't think any of the others you mentioned will. Gatland's already said he plans to take a fairly small (by previous standards) squad and I can't see someone like Armitage being selected especially when there's such competition for places in the back row.

 

[mpickard2087]

I'm not so sure about Sexton. If Farrell continues to improve his all-round game he has recently it'll be very close between the two of them. Out of anyone else I think Rory Best is closest to being assured of his place, which is as much down to a lack of serious competition more than anything else.

If Farrell can show more with ball in hand then I think he could sneak it with his goalkicking. It depends how Gatland wants us to play. Sexton's tactical kicking game is far superior (probably the weakest part of Farrell's game) so if the coaches decide thats a big part of the gameplan then its no contest really.

Good shout on Rory Best, I should have put him along with Cole. Can't see anyone else taking their spots. But you are right it isn't a position of strength. If we do take three hookers (hahaha) then I think the other two could well be Hartley and Youngs.

 

[mpickard2087]

Do you think he will take any of the French based players? Hines, Sheridan, S.Armitage etc should all travel, possibly Wilko too given the FH situation beyond Farrell.

Sheridan - Maybe. Probably yes going on Corbisiero's injury problems and Jenkins' form and the fact Sheri keeps him out of the Toulon team.

Hines - No, good player but I think we have options at Lock

Armitage - Ditto.

Wilkinson - Interesting. I think if Toulon go very far in the Heineken Cup and he has a stormer on the way then it might tip the balance in his favour. After Sexton and Farrell there isn't much, I don't think Wales or Scotland provide a contender on current form and so after that you probably have someone like Wilkinson or even O'Gara to be an experienced head, maybe for the midweek team.

 

[nightgoat]

Good shout on Rory Best, I should have put him along with Cole. Can't see anyone else taking their spots. But you are right it isn't a position of strength. If we do take three hookers (hahaha) then I think the other two could well be Hartley and Youngs.

Actually I think Heaslip is also pretty sure of his place. England don't have anyone to rival him, Faletau may do. David Denton should probably make the squad but he's not even starting for Scotland at the moment.

Wilkinson - Interesting. I think if Toulon go very far in the Heineken Cup and he has a stormer on the way then it might tip the balance in his favour. After Sexton and Farrell there isn't much, I don't think Wales or Scotland provide a contender on current form and so after that you probably have someone like Wilkinson or even O'Gara to be an experienced head, maybe for the midweek team.

O'Gara may just get in ahead of Wilkinson. I'd take either of them ahead of Toby Flood, though. I don't even know who Scotland's fly half is.

 

[mpickard2087]

Actually I think Heaslip is also pretty sure of his place. England don't have anyone to rival him, Faletau may do. David Denton should probably make the squad but he's not even starting for Scotland at the moment.

O'Gara may just get in ahead of Wilkinson. I'd take either of them ahead of Toby Flood, though. I don't even know who Scotland's fly half is.

I think Heaslip is a bit over-rated, him and Falatau will be a close battle, I'd say Heaslip is favourite for the shirt but its not done and dusted. Denton is a good player but can't see us taking three No.8's. Too soon for Morgan but I am a big fan, he is such a powerful guy and difficult to stop and has a lot of ability with ball in hand, but needs to work on being more influential on a game and actually being in a condition to last 80 mins.

Yes Flood shouldn't be in contention, I imagine O'Gara or Wilkinson will be the decision for 3rd Flyhalf. Scotland have Jackson, not proven in Internationals, or Laidlaw who is a, and wants to play at, scrumhalf. Wales have Priestland crocked and in crap form before that, Biggar who hasn't done anything really and Hook who can't get in the team. Can't see anyone else really.

 

[nightgoat]

Denton's played second row a bit I think, so he might be looked at favourably in that respect. He was one of the best players of last year's Six Nations so I'm a bit surprised he didn't start against England and won't start against Italy. Agree about Morgan, he has the potential to be very good indeed. England haven't really had a standout number 8 since Dallaglio.

 

[SugarRay]

England's best number 8 for the past year isn't even considered for selection!

I like Morgan too though. Lots to work with there. Interesting that "little" Vunipola was training with the side this week apparently. Lots to work on with him but again, has a bit to work with.

I would take O'Brien for sure. Robshaw would tour too, with a view to captaining the midweek side and seeing what happens. If that occurred I would expect him to play his way in to the test side.

The locks? Ryan is on form, Gray is well off form. Reckon we might even see an English partnership here? Launchbury has been excellent since stepping up to international level and Parling is growing in to his role.

 

[nightgoat]

The back and second row will be the hardest to call as there's so much to choose from there. On current form Launchbury, Wood, Parling and Robshaw all deserve to go on the tour. If the Welsh boys regain form then Lydiate, Tipuric and Warburton will all be in contention. O'Brien and probably Gray will go, too.

 

[keithtighe93]

1-healy
2-best
3-cole
4-launchbury/ryan
5-gray/parling
6-o'brien/lydiate/wood
7-robshaw/o'mahony/warburton?
8-ferris/heaslip/morgan/denton/faleteau
9-youngs/care
10-sexton/farrell/wilko
11-zebo/gilroy/visser/north
12-tuilagi/roberts
13-o'driscoll
14-bowe/cuthbert/ashton
15-kearney/halfpenny/foden/goode/hogg

great options in the back row, and the back 3

 

[mpickard2087]

We still have a lot of matches left, and there will no doubt be injuries to contend with, but right now on form I would say over the last few months these players have shown real form and must nearly be inked in to the Lions Squad.

Healy, Corbisiero (if fit), Best, Cole, A Jones, Launchbury, Parling, Ryan, O'Brien, Wood, Robshaw, Falatau, Heaslip, B Youngs, Sexton, Farrell, Tuilagi, O'Driscoll (more on pedigree I admit), Kearney, Halfpenny

I think we can say forwards is going to be a real battle, so many options still available that I like as players (Gray, O'Mahony, Tipuric), some players who you thought were near certain but are now question marks (Warburton the main one, then the likes of Hartley, Lawes, maybe Denton), and a lot coming back from injury (O'Connell, Ferres, Lydiate, Croft maybe). What a selection.

In the backs though, whilst there are a lot of options and potential picks, it doesn't feel as if its such a fierce competition and such a difficulty separating players because of such high standards of play, as we see with the forwards. A lot of the backline slots are all to play for, a couple of good games now and you virtually seal it.