Should we have re-signed Berbatov?

[Wardy]

In reply to OP:

No - I don't think Berba would fit in with our style of play now - doesn't possess enough work rate or pace. Although he would of scored more than Adebayor/Defoe.. but that's not exactly difficult

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Quite possibly, although I always assumed he had no morals. Could we be giving him a little too much respect in this case (perhaps because of his ability). When in all likelyhood it doesn't take a lot (well actually it just takes a bit more money) to turn a players nose, regardless of the time frame involved.

We can all have our own opinions on why it didnt happen, but as Misfit pointed out, we came in late when we didnt need to. this discussion is starting to move into the "is Berba a ****, or isnt he" scenario, when all we know is we made a last ditch attempt to sign him that failed, which is becoming a bit of a recurring pattern with Levy.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I have no doubt it was a prediction based on bitterness. And no one can possibly no why he does what he does.

Still. They were right. Bitter or not, based on fact or not. He has been total shit since he has become a permanent player for us.

He doesnt leave many clubs on good positive terms does he? Still, 7 or so games to put up with him.

They weren't right because they suggested it was about getting contracts. It was bollocks.

He hasn't been total shit either. Even on a bad day the bloke still sees more ball than people like Lennon or Defoe. I think he's not been a happy soul, but we keep completely ignoring the fact that we lost two of our best player, our most creative player, Lennon has barely created anything for weeks, Bale is now a virtual striker and there is hardly anyone creating chances for Adebayor. Strikers often need more than one a game to look good and he's barely getting that.

I'm not ignoring his obvious deficiencies this term, but we shouldn't ignore the fact that there are other extenuating circumstances effecting his goal tally. Defoe hasn't scored for months either. The only player regularly scoring is Bale who creates most of his goals for himself.

Our work ethic and coherence has improved greatly as a team, but we are not creating a lot of quality chances in a lot of games. Arsenal have created 56. Chelsea 48. ManC 68. Spurs 42. (Clear cut Chances EPL opta)

Adebayor's minutes per shot last year was 32, this year 54. He had 41 clear cut chances last year, he's had 11 this year so far.

I think he's clearly a player under par, but he's also suffering from a team creating less quality chances.

 

[Nocando]

They weren't right because they suggested it was about getting contracts. It was bollocks.

He hasn't been total shit either. Even on a bad day the bloke still sees more ball than people like Lennon or Defoe. I think he's not been a happy soul, but we keep completely ignoring the fact that we lost two of our best player, our most creative player, Lennon has barely created anything for weeks, Bale is now a virtual striker and there is hardly anyone creating chances for Adebayor. Strikers often need more than one a game to look good and he's barely getting that.

I'm not ignoring his obvious deficiencies this term, but we shouldn't ignore the fact that there are other extenuating circumstances effecting his goal tally. Defoe hasn't scored for months either. The only player regularly scoring is Bale who creates most of his goals for himself.

Our work ethic and coherence has improved greatly as a team, but we are not creating a lot of quality chances in a lot of games. Arsenal have created 56. Chelsea 48. ManC 68. Spurs 42. (Clear cut Chances EPL opta)

Adebayor's minutes per shot last year was 32, this year 54. He had 41 clear cut chances last year, he's had 11 this year so far.

I think he's clearly a player under par, but he's also suffering from a team creating less quality chances.

Good use of stats (read: bear and bc ). Quite obviously losing vdv and modric played a big part in this (particularly vdv)

Edit: Just noticed the post was made by BC. Terrible use of stats, proves nothing.

 

[EastLondonYid]

But a quick reality check would have established this was just bullshit spouted by gooners a little bit bitter at becoming ManC's feeder club.

Yes your right they are bitter gooners, but i also read the same fears/comments from our own fans and plenty of other teams fans, so i still don't get you saying there was ''nothing to suppose'' he would play like he is before resigning, it was one of the main issues/worries i had before we signed him and subsequently him playing like this is no big shock to me.

 

[DotNetCoder]

Maybe in future do your own research maybe? Its not hard to find, the story was in every newspaper and almost every media outlet in the country. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/8048705/Spurs-made-Berbatov-bid

That's not exactly evidence, that just states his _agent_ was trying to hawk him to us.

If AVB had come out and said Levy tried and failed (like he did with Damiao) then I'd be convinced.

 

[faymantaray]

I totally see where your coming from mate, and I admit I find it hard to disagree with some of the points you make. However, I do take issue with your use of the word "certainty".

While I find his "Keep calm and pass the ball to me" T-shirt funny, I question his overall mentality with specific regards to fitting if with AVB's system and philosophy. I could be wrong but I take issue with people pretending real life is FIFA and not taking into account the hundreds of "real life" variables that can come into effect. Had we signed him how can you say that:

1. He wouldn't get injured (yes I appreciate he has not for Fulham but that does not mean to say the different trainign regime under AVB would of been exactly the same

2. Even with no injury, Andre might not have played him

3. What effect would point 2 have on his attitude and how would it thus effect his game?

4. Can you say 100% that JD and Ade would of carried on as badly as they have if we had signed Berba? (It might of risen their game and thus kept him out of the first team)

5. Baring in mind the whold "Keep calm and pass the ball to me" bollocks, How do you think that personality would have an effect on the rest of the team

6. Would Bale be playing as great as he is?

7. Due to lack of games (not starting every match as the main man like he is at Fulham) the game she did come off the bench/start could of seen him "try to hard" much like Holtby and lead to less then impressive performances (He sems to have 1 or 2 for Fulham followed by not turning up for 2 or 3, particually big games)

I'm not saying all of the above of even any of the above would have happened but I recognise that life, football and human beings are fucking unpredictable. I for one am verry happy with how our season is going. The only slowish ex player I want back and Spurs, and who we should of never of sold, is VDV.

Like I said at the start though, I agree with most of what you say. For the record, Like all spurs fans, I loved Berba and think he is a class act, even if he does have a questionable attitude (like 1 or 2 others in our squad mentiontioning no names) I'm still undecided as to whether I would have had him back, I think it's impossible to answer these things without knowing what actually happened (but fun to play these hypotheticals) For starters, do we even know for sure if Berba wanted to come back to the Lane? If he did, then we can't know the ins and outs of of his terms, might of pissed a few people off, not just DL.

These two contradict each other I think..

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yes your right they are bitter gooners, but i also read the same fears/comments from our own fans and plenty of other teams fans, so i still don't get you saying there was ''nothing to suppose'' he would play like he is before resigning, it was one of the main issues/worries i had before we signed him and subsequently has him playing like this is no big shock to me.

My point is it has nothing to do with "getting contracts". I think this season he's not been mentally at his best and I think that we as a team are not creating enough for him.

Also, something I didn't mention before was that we are also playing a slightly different way now. Our game under Redknapp was open with lots of space. We now squeeze and condense space a lot more, this means Adebayor's remit and area of of operation has shifted and changed slightly.

Whereas last season we would win the ball deep and Adebayor had acres of pitch to move around in to receive the ball, we now adopt a much smaller defensive pitch, when we win the ball it is much higher up with play condensed into that smaller space. Means he's having less area and time on the ball. One of the reasons we are not seeing him dribble as much for example.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

That's not exactly evidence, that just states his _agent_ was trying to hawk him to us.

If AVB had come out and said Levy tried and failed (like he did with Damiao) then I'd be convinced.

It's not really something the club are going to come out with, unless they want to make themselves look foolish. There's no reason why Berba's agent would need to make stuff up after the Fulham deal was done. Also I dont think the Club are going to anounce to the world's media every player they make an enquiry for. The Leandro deal was obviously alot further along, with money being talked about (and also Skysports camped outside our training ground demanding info)

 

[Kendall]

Without question

 

[DotNetCoder]

It's not really something the club are going to come out with, unless they want to make themselves look foolish. There's no reason why Berba's agent would need to make stuff up after the Fulham deal was done. Also I dont think the Club are going to anounce to the world's media every player they make an enquiry for. The Leandro deal was obviously alot further along, with money being talked about (and also Skysports camped outside our training ground demanding info)

No worries - might never know!

 

[NEVILLEB]

Sheringham was good till his late thirties and didn't have the touch or vision of Berbatov.

The man is a class act and we should bring him and a younger top class striker here this summer...but not holding breath!

 

[michaelden]

Berbatov was class and we were a fool not to resign him

 

[neogenisis]

Whilst I agree largely, your second sentence leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I get what you're saying but fair play to Fulham. No reason at all they shouldn't have a skilful player on their books. Just sounds like those yanited and Chelsea wankers talking about Berbatov/Modric/Bale/whoever playing for us.

Sorry for a nothing post and no harm meant, just struck me is all.

I'll shut up now.

Fair comment, but it wasnt meant like that. I guess while watching i was seeing him upfront for us and players actually being on the same wavelength as him. He operates on a different level to the most of the Fulham players.

 

[Black]

Didn't one of the itk's say he turned us down ?

 

[Spursbabe63]

Yes for me too!

 

[AngerManagement]

I totally see where your coming from mate, and I admit I find it hard to disagree with some of the points you make. However, I do take issue with your use of the word "certainty".

While I find his "Keep calm and pass the ball to me" T-shirt funny, I question his overall mentality with specific regards to fitting if with AVB's system and philosophy. I could be wrong but I take issue with people pretending real life is FIFA and not taking into account the hundreds of "real life" variables that can come into effect. Had we signed him how can you say that:

1. He wouldn't get injured (yes I appreciate he has not for Fulham but that does not mean to say the different trainign regime under AVB would of been exactly the same

2. Even with no injury, Andre might not have played him

3. What effect would point 2 have on his attitude and how would it thus effect his game?

4. Can you say 100% that JD and Ade would of carried on as badly as they have if we had signed Berba? (It might of risen their game and thus kept him out of the first team)

5. Baring in mind the whold "Keep calm and pass the ball to me" bollocks, How do you think that personality would have an effect on the rest of the team

6. Would Bale be playing as great as he is?

7. Due to lack of games (not starting every match as the main man like he is at Fulham) the game she did come off the bench/start could of seen him "try to hard" much like Holtby and lead to less then impressive performances (He sems to have 1 or 2 for Fulham followed by not turning up for 2 or 3, particually big games)

I'm not saying all of the above of even any of the above would have happened but I recognise that life, football and human beings are fucking unpredictable. I for one am verry happy with how our season is going. The only slowish ex player I want back and Spurs, and who we should of never of sold, is VDV.

Like I said at the start though, I agree with most of what you say. For the record, Like all spurs fans, I loved Berba and think he is a class act, even if he does have a questionable attitude (like 1 or 2 others in our squad mentiontioning no names) I'm still undecided as to whether I would have had him back, I think it's impossible to answer these things without knowing what actually happened (but fun to play these hypotheticals) For starters, do we even know for sure if Berba wanted to come back to the Lane? If he did, then we can't know the ins and outs of of his terms, might of pissed a few people off, not just DL.

My overriding opinion is that I am certain he would have been a better signing than Dempsey

I think his class would have told, or perhaps the poor form of Defoe/Ade would have told and one way or another Berbatov would have made his way to be our number one.....for the simple fact that he is one of the best strikers in the PL and has way move to his game than anyone else, so even had AVB not started with him it would have happened eventually and would have made us a better team

I don't think his personality would have had an impact on the squad or it's moral, he's to quiet a person in my opinion I think away from the pitch he would have been somewhat in the background. Maybe on pitch he could have caused some frustration with his arrogance but then at least he would have backed it up with performance where as Defoe for example probably frustrates the fuck out of people when he shifts and shoots from an impossible position when they're in space (ade too no doubt is a source of frustration)

I don't see any reason for his presence to have prevented Bale's progression, if anything it would have enhanced it as Berbatov's best attributes are actually his skill of bringing the best out of those around him with his vision, movement and skill (after all he made Keane look like a £20m player) and if anything Bale would look even better with someone like Berbatov to link up with and feed (have more assists as a result)

I think because his game is not based on pace he's still at or close to his best and he would have been a fantastic signing or at least he would have been a dramatically better signing than Dempsey has proven to be, and I'm sorry if you have a problem with my use of the word but I really am certain he would have been a far better signing than Clint.

 

[sam1972]

wot michaelden said

 

[jj87]

Berbatov was class and we were a fool not to resign him

Spot on. Would have loved to see him in this team.

 

[E17yid]

These two contradict each other I think..

I didn't say all of these things would happen, or any of them for that matter. Just pointing out possibile variables