sunderland ditch martin o'neill...

[beats1]

Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in mid-20th century Europe. Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community,[3][4] relying on a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation on fascist principles.[5] Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements share certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader.


Other than Di Canio saying "I'm not a racist, I'm a fascist" what are his politics? He did the Nazi salute while playing for Lazio but what were the reasons/background? Mark Bosnich did it to Spurs fans and hasn't been branded a racist for his career.

I'd quite like to know what he actually believes.

He did the roman salute which is pretty much the nazi salute, which has been adopted by the fascists

Can't agree with that sorry...he was resigning anyway due to his new job! It just looks better on him to resign this way...not that I can blame him for taking the opportunity.

No he didnt, with most jobs you are allowed to be a non executive at any other companies, thats what alot people strive to do in their careers as you get paid alot for like a couple of meetings a year and most of the board are probably in america now anyway

 

[jj87]

Now this is pathetic. Has any manager had to clarify their political leanings before? how about sexual orientation or religion? Maybe just give everyone a questionnaire at the beginning of the season to decide whether it's ok for them to be employed.

How many managers go around openly declaring that they are fascists? The man is scum.

 

[dontcallme]

He did the roman salute which is pretty much the nazi salute, which has been adopted by the fascists

I know he did, that's why I wrote it. But Mark Bosnich did as well to fans with well-known Jewish connections and wasn't branded a racist forever.

I'm not saying he is or isn't racist, I just want to gather information as I don't know much other than he did a Nazi salute once 8 years ago and once said "I'm not a racist, I'm a fascist."

Since asking I've found out he did the Nazi salute on more than one occasion and a player of his complained of racial abuse.

Someone saying I'm a fascist isn't enough for me to go to town on him. He could just mean he likes a strong leader with a heavy influence on discipline, hard work and authority.

I'd really like to hear Di Canio's side.

 

[jj87]

Someone saying I'm a fascist isn't enough for me to go to town on him. He could just mean he likes a strong leader with a heavy influence on discipline, hard work and authority.

And violent suppression/murder of anyone who doesnt agree with their idea of 'discipline' or 'authority' (largely just by existing in a lot of cases)

Anyone who openly declares themselves a fascist is a moron or nasty bit of work. Probably a combination of the two.

 

[dontcallme]

And violent suppression/murder of anyone who doesnt agree with their idea of 'discipline' or 'authority' (largely just by existing in a lot of cases)

Anyone who openly declares themselves a fascist is a moron or nasty bit of work. Probably a combination of the two.

Dictionary definition of fascism:

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Take account of the phrase 'often racism.' Also take into account that when Di Canio declared himself a fascist he also said he isn't a racist which suggests he is more a supporter of strong uncompromising leadership than anything else.

I'm not going to write off a human being's complete character based on one thing he said.

 

[Sum Monsterism]

The Italian told the Italian news agency ANSA in 2005 "I am a fascist, not a racist"...

The Sunderland chief executive, Margaret Byrne, said: "It's been very disappointing to read some of the reaction to Paolo's appointment. To accuse him now ... of being a racist or having fascist sympathies, is insulting not only to him but to the integrity of this football club."

erm...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/01/paolo-di-canio-racism-sunderland

 

[dontcallme]

The Italian told the Italian news agency ANSA in 2005 "I am a fascist, not a racist"...

The Sunderland chief executive, Margaret Byrne, said: "It's been very disappointing to read some of the reaction to Paolo's appointment. To accuse him now ... of being a racist or having fascist sympathies, is insulting not only to him but to the integrity of this football club."

erm...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/01/paolo-di-canio-racism-sunderland

Erm.... what?

He has made it clear that he is not a racist and isn't massively interested in politics.

I think people are trying to make a bigger thing of this than it is.

 

[jj87]

Dictionary definition of fascism:

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Take account of the phrase 'often racism.' Also take into account that when Di Canio declared himself a fascist he also said he isn't a racist which suggests he is more a supporter of strong uncompromising leadership than anything else.

I'm not going to write off a human being's complete character based on one thing he said.

Erm did you ignore all the other bits of the definition? So he might not be a racist (which I find very difficult to believe) but he's fine with violence against people who disagree with his views? Still a ****. You dont have to write off his complete character (he might be nice to his granny on a weekend) in the same way most human beings have some positive qualities - but ask yourself is he a fit person to be in charge of a sport that claims to be fighting prejudice? Its a fucking joke mate. I think you should do a bit more research on fascism (instead of simply a dictionary definition) and ask yourself if any decent person would openly associate themselves with that political philosophy.

 

[Sum Monsterism]

Erm.... what?

He has made it clear that he is not a racist and isn't massively interested in politics.

I think people are trying to make a bigger thing of this than it is.

I think you've misunderstood my post bro, so I'll break it down:

pt 1: The Italian told the Italian news agency ANSA in 2005 "I am a fascist, not a racist"...

pt 2: Margaret Byrne, said "To accuse him now ... of being a racist or having fascist sympathies, is insulting"

in summary: Di Canio says "I am fascist" - Sunderland official say "anyone saying he's a fascist is a twerp"...

do you see the fallacy here?

 

[jj87]

Erm.... what?

He has made it clear that he is not a racist and isn't massively interested in politics.

I think people are trying to make a bigger thing of this than it is.

If he isnt massively interested in politics dont fucking go around making Nazi salutes and get all pissy when people pull you up on it.

 

[dontcallme]

Erm did you ignore all the other bits of the definition? So he might not be a racist (which I find very difficult to believe) but he's fine with violence against people who disagree with his views? Still a ****. You dont have to write off his complete character (he might be nice to his granny on a weekend) in the same way most human beings have some positive qualities - but ask yourself is he a fit person to be in charge of a sport that claims to be fighting prejudice? Its a fucking joke mate. I think you should do a bit more research on fascism (instead of simply a dictionary definition) and ask yourself if any decent person would openly associate themselves with that political philosophy.

From the reading I've done today it seems he has fascist sympathies. But what does that mean?

Does he condone violence? I doubt it.

I know the history of fascism to an extent but don't believe Di Canio believes what you want him to believe. It's easier just to label someone than understand them. He once said "I'm not a racist, I'm a fascist." As a result lets make him unemployable for the rest of his life, brilliant.

I know lots of decent people who believe things that would make people like you think they're a ****, doesn't make you right.

Like I've said before. What is really important is why Di Canio associates himself with fascism. I'm certainly not going to judge based on your interpretation of what he means.

 

[dontcallme]

I think you've misunderstood my post bro, so I'll break it down:

pt 1: The Italian told the Italian news agency ANSA in 2005 "I am a fascist, not a racist"...

pt 2: Margaret Byrne, said "To accuse him now ... of being a racist or having fascist sympathies, is insulting"

in summary: Di Canio says "I am fascist" - Sunderland official say "anyone saying he's a fascist is a twerp"...

do you see the fallacy here?

Yes I see the fallacy but in the article he says he has explained himself many times. His explanation is still unknown to me which is what I'm hoping to find.

 

[dontcallme]

If he isnt massively interested in politics dont fucking go around making Nazi salutes and get all pissy when people pull you up on it.

He made a Nazi salute 8 years ago. He is no longer a player but a manager. Can we not move on and judge him on what he believes and how he conducts himself. Or do we just hate people forever for things done in the past?

 

[jj87]

He made a Nazi salute 8 years ago. He is no longer a player but a manager. Can we not move on and judge him on what he believes and how he conducts himself. Or do we just hate people forever for things done in the past?

Yes I intensely dislike (not sure what hate really means) people who make Nazi salutes and call themselves fascists. He believes in fascism (by his own admissions) which tells me enough about him to make a reasonable assessment of his character. He wasnt a child when he did it, he knows the associations and he is therefore, in my eyes, an utter scumbag and not fit to be manager of a Premiership football club (despite the moral vacuum at the heart of our sport). I will not be convinced otherwise.

 

[Sum Monsterism]

He made a Nazi salute 8 years ago. He is no longer a player but a manager. Can we not move on and judge him on what he believes and how he conducts himself. Or do we just hate people forever for things done in the past?

all he needs to do is say: I was stupid, I'm no longer fascist or believe the ideology...

he doesn't / hasn't said that... instead he says:

"Of course it hurts me because people try to take your dignity and that is not fair. I believe in my pillars and I have values. What offends me more than anything is not because they touch me; they touch what my parents gave to me; the values they gave to me. This is not acceptable."

sounds a bit like: I'm not rascist - it's different. I believe in fascism, 'cos that's what me ma and pa believed in.

btw: I'm not on a witch hunt. no way. Just explaining what I see to be the general gist of why people can be / are irked by the situ...

if he's no longer fascist - just say it for an easy life... if he doesn't say it, it seems likely that he still is!

 

[dontcallme]

Yes I intensely dislike (not sure what hate really means) people who make Nazi salutes and call themselves fascists. He believes in fascism (by his own admissions) which tells me enough about him to make a reasonable assessment of his character. He wasnt a child when he did it, he knows the associations and he is therefore, in my eyes, an utter scumbag and not fit to be manager of a Premiership football club (despite the moral vacuum at the heart of our sport). I will not be convinced otherwise.

That's fine. I'd rather not call people scum based on their beliefs unless I know 100% what they believe and why they believe it.

Lots of sportsmen have done bad things in the heat of the moment but I can't write people off so quickly.

Hopefully I'll find what he believes and judge from there if it is acceptable for a Prem manager.

 

[dontcallme]

all he needs to do is say: I was stupid, I'm no longer fascist or believe the ideology...

he doesn't / hasn't said that... instead he says:

"Of course it hurts me because people try to take your dignity and that is not fair. I believe in my pillars and I have values. What offends me more than anything is not because they touch me; they touch what my parents gave to me; the values they gave to me. This is not acceptable."

sounds a bit like: I'm not rascist - it's different. I believe in fascism, 'cos that's what me ma and pa believed in.

btw: I'm not on a witch hunt. no way. Just explaining what I see to be the general gist of why people can be / are irked by the situ...

if he's no longer fascist - just say it for an easy life... if he doesn't say it, it seems likely that he still is!

But it appears he does believe in parts of fascism. He doesn't seem to be someone who'll say what he doesn't believe for an easy life.

Other than a couple of things he has said there's little evidence that he is a genuine problem character.

I just want to know what he really believes.

 

[teok]

Fascism is pretty self explanatory, there isn't a family friendly version. Nobody accidentally identifies as one. The lazio ultras are infamous through out the world for their views. Let's not beat about the bush here.

 

[Danners9]

How many managers go around openly declaring that they are fascists? The man is scum.

why is it relevant to his ability to do the job? that's all.

Why does it matter one jot. He held these beliefs as a player, didn't hide them and was allowed to play, and was chosen as manager of another club.. why is it such a big deal now.

What people believe in their personal life is completely separate until such time as it impacts their professional obligations.

 

[Danners9]

not really - no other manager, at least that I can think of, has claimed belief in what is considered by most to be a ridiculous, outdated and generally downright moronic philosophy...

any politician or other public figure who came out and said something similar would certainly need to qualify his remarks or the media would bay for blood...

you're joining up a lot of dots here. From what i've read in the clippings of his autobiography and other interviews it isn't fascism or a love of Mussolini that he adores but the strength of a single leader. I find it hard to believe he is a Mussolini sympathiser. Lazio wasn't always a fascist club, in fact Roma was formed by the fascists.. His tattoo of Dux may have connotations to Mussolini, but does it actually mean Mussolini in this context? I don't know, do you? maybe you do.

The salute at Lazio has been said by Marcotti (who ghost wrote Di Canio's book) and Simon Kuper to be a sign of solidarity for Lazio and fans, not necessarily of Mussolini and the Italian fascists. Di Canio is allowed to have his views, whatever they may be. He probably has his reasons, as he says about family and upbringing. I genuinely don't remember, but was there this witch hunt when he was appointed at Swindon? If not, why does it matter now? Is it because the media are bored and are once again asserting this odd position they occupy within the game?

I've seen Sunderland fans say they won't go, i've seen others say if people want to make football about politics then they are the ones with the problem and not the manager.

Sunderland's chairman and board have appointed a man they feel is right for the job. In any other role you would be questioned about beliefs that have been publicised, but if you are appointed in spite of this.. who really cares.

'The man is scum', righto. Again, this kind of comment joins up a lot of dots that may not actually be there. Who knows. Or cares. He's had a long career, he's done his badges and is qualified for the role.

Glenn Hoddle was cast adrift for equally baffling views, was that right as well? Wrong to air them in public, perhaps, but what's done is done.. does it mean he is totally incapable of working in football? Seems so, as far as coaching is concerned but he's not completely on the outside. Thankfully things have moved on since then. Di Canio isn't out there advocating white power and military rule. Or, in fact, anything, to my knowledge. Just that he holds that view in the same way someone may be a labour voter or a conservative voter.