TBWAH Coutesy of Ackneyboy (FTL)

[miles_64]

Those wearing nazi symbols are ignorant pricks.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks for putting up that derelict pub link SS.

My Old Man used to drink in the Camden Stores in the late fifties and early sixties
when we lived in that area fresh off the boat from paddyland via 3rd class rail and boat travel.

I hav been in The Frampton, Flying Scod, Dagmar, DeBeauvoir, The Steps, The Mitre and of course the Railway in White Hart Lane.

 

[ever]

I. It wasn't a nazi thing in those days, more of a skin/anti commie thing, nothing about Jew haters or anything like that,

Those wearing nazi symbols are ignorant pricks.

the swaztika has a huge history that became bastardised by the nazis

 

[Fordy]

Thanks for putting up that derelict pub link SS.

My Old Man used to drink in the Camden Stores in the late fifties and early sixties
when we lived in that area fresh off the boat from paddyland via 3rd class rail and boat travel.

I hav been in The Frampton, Flying Scod, Dagmar, DeBeauvoir, The Steps, The Mitre and of course the Railway in White Hart Lane.

ive been in The Steps and the Railway.

it was the Railway where those flats fell down a few years back wasnt it?

 

[TheChosenOne]

The surprising thing about this book is that fact that someone actually had a camera in those days and took it to football matches.

Photos in those days were for journo's or wedding and holidays.

Nowadays nearly everyone has one on a mobile phone or a tiny digital, heck we didn't even have the mobiles then. When I got married in 1976 I lived in a Hackney council flat and didn't even bother to have a landline until I bought my first house in Cheshunt in 1978.

 

[Stoof]

Why are you checking the CPR in relation to a copyright issue... come on fellow trainee think about it!

Eh? Sue people much? Surely that's a civil claim?

 

[Locotoro]

it is a Civil claim, dont know what the other chap is talking about

 

[miles_64]

Those wearing nazi symbols are ignorant pricks.

the swaztika has a huge history that became bastardised by the nazis

Yes, I'm sure they were well aware of its history as a good-luck token particularly associated with Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism... Even if they did wear it as an anti-communist symbol, how ignorant do you have to be to wear it as a supporter of a club with a large Jewish following whose race were murdered in their millions by a government who wore this symbol, the Swastika. These 'fans' wore it to look like thugs and to shock, plain and simple.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Yes, I'm sure they were well aware of its history as a good-luck token particularly associated with Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism... Even if they did wear it as an anti-communist symbol, how ignorant do you have to be to wear it as a supporter of a club with a large Jewish following whose race were murdered in their millions by a government who wore this symbol, the Swastika. These 'fans' wore it to look like thugs and to shock, plain and simple.

And.... You tryin to make something out of nothing ?

This was the 1970's

Jobs were disappearing. ways of life were changing too.
Immigration was mainframe, the whole English way of life was hanging in so many different ways. The skinhead ways of life were intertwined with ska and reggae and a London Caribbean
music scene.

You think every mod who wore the symbol was into peace love and anti-nuclear CND stuff ? Or the ones that had the RAF roundel on their back were ex-RAF pilots ?

It was part of growing up
If you were not there you do not know.
It was a time, post war Get a life.

In Russia and the other iron-curtain states at the moment there is a fascist moment, there still is.

 

[AllSeeingEye]

how ignorant do you have to be to wear it as a supporter of a club with a large Jewish following whose race were murdered in their millions by a government who wore this symbol, the Swastika.

I guess you'd need to be living in the 70's, or at least that is what i think TCO is getting at.

Still, doesn't make it right.

Maybe the wearer should have paid more attention in history classes.

In England there are still fascist movements.
Images like these will, to some extent, perpetuate the picture of a mindless hooligan with no morals. And do you really want to have that associated with the club?


PS. Since this is all about discussion now, since there are some interesting comments by those who may have known the chaps in the photos I will take back my comment about the swastika guy being a nonce. I will stick by the naive and should have known better line though.


As for General Levy "bad repping" me and calling me a nonce....well you certainly changed taught me a lesson (not)........you nonce.

 

[TheChosenOne]

The 1970's were turbulent times indeed.

Unions striking, 3 day weeks, postcode power cuts, rubbish piled up in the streets,
and in the middle of it all - major football hooliganism - I have previously admitted I was involved in this, so it is not an issue now.

Music was changing too, from The Osmonds and The Brotherhood of Man and other MOR
stuff to groups like The Clash, The Sex Pistols who hit the ground running with anti-government, anti-monarchist and anti-social music which advocated rioting in the streets and affiliation to left wing groups like Baader-Meinhof and The Red Brigades, promoting hard core drug taking and hatred for anything but the radicial.

Tom Robinson was spouting about "Sing if your glad to be gay" before doing a u-turn years later and becoming "het" getting married and having kids. How the "pinks" must have hated his treachery.

Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols (Simon John Ritchie, aka John Beverly from Hull) was
one of the "big names" who sent terror into middle-class homes at the time.
Dunno why though, I knew him before he became briefly famous - he was a total wanker.


Many members of the current Labour Government were heavily into agit-prop, left-wing socialist shenanigans, CND and other anti-establishment stuff in that decade.

How the worm turns eh ?

 

[audreyfacere]

Those wearing nazi symbols are ignorant pricks

Go up to the Aldwych and look at the Indian Emabassy - it is covered in swaztikas (not the indian name for the symbol), it was originally a symbol of good luck.

I've seen black people wearing nazi uniforms - fashion item.

Don't forget that it is also away of reclaiming what is offensive e.g. feminists using the word bitch and there used to be a band (maybe still is) called "Niggas with attitude".

I don't mean to lecture or sound pompous - have probably failed in both, and those individuals may have been ignorant pricks but the wearing of such symbols, especially with a club so closely associated with Jews, may have been for many reasons.

 

[nicdic]

I bet the people calling the swaztika wearers names are younger jewish fans?

 

[TheChosenOne]

Those wearing nazi symbols are ignorant pricks
Go up to the Aldwych and look at the Indian Emabassy - it is covered in swaztikas (not the indian name for the symbol), it was originally a symbol of good luck.

I've seen black people wearing nazi uniforms - fashion item.

Don't forget that it is also away of reclaiming what is offensive e.g. feminists using the word bitch and there used to be a band (maybe still is) called "Niggas with attitude".

I don't mean to lecture or sound pompous - have probably failed in both, and those individuals may have been ignorant pricks but the wearing of such symbols, especially with a club so closely associated with Jews, may have been for many reasons.

Had to read this post a couple of times, to get it straight.

I realise now the first line was from an earlier post.

As to the guys I knew in the bad good old days a lot of them would have had fathers or family who had fought in the second world war against national socialism (nazi's) and helped liberate
Europe and the concentration camps.

Even though I was born in Ireland I was brought up in the East & North End of London with a healthy Jewish population and I for one had no love for Germans of any description due to the war and the genocides of races until I personally met some Germans in their own country in the 80's
Mind you I still don't like the Germans - when they beat us on penalties at either International or club level.

 

[fortworthspur]

bitchin' flared trousers, though.

 

[TheChosenOne]

bitchin' flared trousers, though.

Did you see the pic of the guy with the scarves hanging off his belt ?


This was a forming of "counting coup" collecting trophies (scarves) from opposition fans. Mad but true.


What about the creases down the front of the jeans, crisp or what !

In those days, whatever was worn down in London usually took on in the Midlands a couple of years later, hence when Spurs played Stoke or Derby the locals were wearing stuff that we had worn a few years earlier. (Thats how they could be spotted)

 

[stevenqoz]

TCO, I think we had some earlier conversations about who we knew when we were growing up. Some things / attitudes are difficult to explain using the cold light of logic. ( a few mixed metaphores there!) We know what a lot of the Shacklewell boys ended up with over time but as you say they were often from Irish backgrounds etc.
Anyone looking at any of these pictures today must do so with a sense of anachronism. We knew what we knew then. The Desmond Morris book on tribal / football familes is great and it explains most of the 'looks' back then. Ranging from footwear to scarves and how and where they were worn.

 

[nipponyid]

KR`s awayday coaches....they were the days!

 

[TheChosenOne]

TCO, I think we had some earlier conversations about who we knew when we were growing up. Some things / attitudes are difficult to explain using the cold light of logic. ( a few mixed metaphores there!) We know what a lot of the Shacklewell boys ended up with over time but as you say they were often from Irish backgrounds etc.
Anyone looking at any of these pictures today must do so with a sense of anachronism. We knew what we knew then. The Desmond Morris book on tribal / football familes is great and it explains most of the 'looks' back then. Ranging from footwear to scarves and how and where they were worn.

Thanks for the post Steve.

I know what I'm trying to say.


ps
Our old mate Dan the Man Wiseman and all them Cohen families in Amhurst/Evelyn Court were our mates, it was a given.

 

[lily_lane]

You wouldn't want to hang about in Evelyn Court/Amhurst Road now TCO, my sister lives there and it's right rough. I went to school in Shacklewell Lane so all this talk, the pics (my brother was a season ticket holder back in the late 70s) the fashions, the hairstyles, the locations, the music, it's all
a) like from another world, but
b) nostalgic for me, as a kid at the time, looking up at the grown ups.

Fascinating to hear about, so thanks to all for the posts, and enjoyed looking at the pics. :up:

It always bemuses me when eastern European hoolies try to ape the *skinhead* look and think it's an homage to the original English hoolies from this period, and people automatically associate the term Skinhead with "racist" or neanderthal and the epitome of a mindless yob, as one poster said earlier.
As TCO has said, the original skinheads from the early 70s listened to nothing but black music. Tamla Motown, Ska, Rocksteady, Reggae, Soul, R&B. We here in Stoke Newington invented Lover's Rock! (A melodic form of reggae). :wink:
Life and people are/were more complicated than the black and white way the media/politics is presented today (sorry for the pun).
Siouxie and the Banshees wore swastikas in the late 70s when punk started. They were not Nazi sympathizers. It was a shock tactic, a statement to say "up yours" and your cosy little life, we are new, we are angry and we are in yer face.
Bill Grundy got the sack, cos he allowed them to swear on live TV on the Thames Today show. It caused outrage.
Yes, I'm sure many Jewish people were deeply offended at the time and did not appreciate any alternative meaning.
The early evening news on ITN lasted for 10 mins back then, we did not have wall to wall 24 hour news. For people now to say "get an education" or "they were ignorant" is putting today's lifestyle and way of looking at things and transporting it back to another era - wrongly IMO.