The Poch has been confirmed as manager thread!

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

There's nothing wrong with it. It's just a wholly unnecessary process to have to confirm to people that your opinion was wrong a year ago. It should largely be assumed those opinions have changed over time so why bother calling somebody out and trying to shame them on everything they ever said?

I'll give a personal example. Last season I can distinctly remember having a bad opinion on Dembele I thought he slowed down our play and didn't think he had a future at the club at all, expected him to be one of those sold in the summer. I can't remember whether I expressed that opinion on here or not, but now if Dembele wins our player of the year award which seems possible and I comment on it something like "Wow he's been so important for us, what a great player" somebody can dig through my posts and call me on it. But I just don't see the point people make in doing that because opinions change...

There is an important distinction to be drawn between reasoned and logical opinions to those that are just over reactionary and knee jerk.

I am sure your opinion on Dembele was formed after a couple of seasons of watching him play for us and an idea of what sort of midfielder you believed would work in the system that Poch was looking to implement. Coming to the conclusion that Dembele will probably be moved on was logical considering those factors.

This is different than coming to conclusion that "Levy has fucked up again!!!" or "Potch is a one season wonder who stumbled upon a very good Southampton side" and "I don't really ever see how a manager who can't properly speak English is a good fit for us, the players wont relate to him and nor will the fans. We don't sing his name and if it wasn't for Levy's pride he'd probably be gone at the end of this season." When Pochettino was only 3 months into his first season with us, with a squad he had largely inherited. These are ridiculous opinions based on no logic at all. Of course when the poster made them he obviously believed the shit he was writing. How wrong he was can only be emphasised now the manager has been given a good amount of time for everyone to make a proper assessment of the job he's done - which wasn't 3 months into his first season...

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

That's probably true, but patience isn't a one way argument that always holds divine value either. One of the latest examples being Townsend. Fans who stuck with him aren't necessarily better, truer or superior fans simply because they stuck with him. Not that I can be bothered to go back and look for individual members who were wrong about him on some dark and dreary autumn day in 2013.

To be fair there's a difference. I am not a Townsend fan in any way. But there's absolutely no harm in those who supported him to the very end - that was positivity and could only help the club. What we're talking about here is those who are unnecessarily and without reason negative.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

To be fair there's a difference. I am not a Townsend fan in any way. But there's absolutely no harm in those who supported him to the very end - that was positivity and could only help the club. What we're talking about here is those who are unnecessarily and without reason negative.

No, what we are talking about are people who find perverse pleasure in going back in time, digging up dirt from other's posts to prove them wrong and have a laugh about it. It's altogether petty.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

There is an important distinction to be drawn between reasoned and logical opinions to those that are just over reactionary and knee jerk.

I am sure your opinion on Dembele was formed after a couple of seasons of watching him play for us and an idea of what sort of midfielder you believed would work in the system that Poch was looking to implement. Coming to the conclusion that Dembele will probably be moved on was logical considering those factors.

This is different than coming to conclusion that "Levy has fucked up again!!!" or "Potch is a one season wonder who stumbled upon a very good Southampton side" and "I don't really ever see how a manager who can't properly speak English is a good fit for us, the players wont relate to him and nor will the fans. We don't sing his name and if it wasn't for Levy's pride he'd probably be gone at the end of this season." When Pochettino was only 3 months into his first season with us, with a squad he had largely inherited. These are ridiculous opinions based on no logic at all. Of course when the poster made them he obviously believed the shit he was writing. How wrong he was can only be emphasised now the manager has been given a good amount of time for everyone to make a proper assessment of the job he's done - which wasn't 3 months into his first season...

No, what we are talking about are people who find perverse pleasure in going back in time, digging up dirt from other's posts to prove them wrong and have a laugh about it. It's altogether petty.

The above quote explains what is happening here far better than I can.

 

[raggy]

The above quote explains what is happening here far better than I can.

Not really sure what difference that post has other than the language of the examples being harsher. I can see logic in all the arguments made for "not Poch" even if I disagreed with them at the time. Some of the arguments could have been worded in a better way but they were all still valid opinions. They look worse now only because we have the power of hindsight.

Nothing in the posts made me think they were trolls or delusional. So really my points from my posts above are the same and I don't see anything there that changes my mind.

 

[balebalebalebale]

It's not an issue that people were wrong, it's that some people were so arrogant in expressing their opinion and so certain they were right that it is now comical they were wrong.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Not really sure what difference that post has other than the language of the examples being harsher. I can see logic in all the arguments made for "not Poch" even if I disagreed with them at the time. Some of the arguments could have been worded in a better way but they were all still valid opinions. They look worse now only because we have the power of hindsight.

Nothing in the posts made me think they were trolls or delusional. So really my points from my posts above are the same and I don't see anything there that changes my mind.

What sense or logic is there in deriding a manager only 3 months into his first season at the club?

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

One defeat and everyone's prickly in here. SC will eat itself until we win again, which will of course be very soon.

 

[Shadydan]

Not really sure what difference that post has other than the language of the examples being harsher. I can see logic in all the arguments made for "not Poch" even if I disagreed with them at the time. Some of the arguments could have been worded in a better way but they were all still valid opinions. They look worse now only because we have the power of hindsight.

Nothing in the posts made me think they were trolls or delusional. So really my points from my posts above are the same and I don't see anything there that changes my mind.

You can see the logic of someone saying that Levy has fucked up again and dismissing the manager after 3 months as a one season wonder etc.. knowing that things aren't going to suddenly turn around after 3 months? Hell the post I bumped some joker totally dismissing Poch the day we announced him, sorry you can't defend that at all.

We all get things wrong, no-one is saying that, the issue here is that people with forthright opinions and arrogantly disregarded the manager despite not giving him a chance, there are posts back then with people questioning the manager back then albeit with sensible reasoning, they haven't been bumped for a reason.

 

[raggy]

You can see the logic of someone saying that Levy has fucked up again and dismissing the manager after 3 months as a one season wonder etc.. knowing that things aren't going to suddenly turn around after 3 months? Hell the post I bumped some joker totally dismissing Poch the day we announced him, sorry you can't defend that at all.

We all get things wrong, no-one is saying that, the issue here is that people we so forthright and arrogantly dismissed disregarded the manager despite not giving him a chance, there are posts back then with people questioning the manager back then albeit with sensible reasoning, they haven't been bumped for a reason.

You can't see the logic in fans being pessimistic about a Levy appointment when the club has practically been a revolving door for managers for years?

The fact it was 3 months in or before he was appointed or whatever hardly matters, the opinions were based on Levy's track record of finding a long term manager rather than Poch really. These people were likely as pessimistic before the appointment so 3 months in they were quick to reach judgement at any signs of a problem and quick to say things after disappointing losses.

I haven't looked into it myself but I bet if you go back and look when those posts were made I bet most of them were made on the day of horribly disappointing defeats when the negative emotions can be overcharged and you can easily exaggerate the negativity. Obviously when you go back a year later there's no context of what was happening at the time of the post so all that's left is to judge it with the benefit of hindsight. That's what I don't like.

 

[Shadydan]

You can't see the logic in fans being pessimistic about a Levy appointment when the club has practically been a revolving door for managers for years?

The fact it was 3 months in or before he was appointed or whatever hardly matters, the opinions were based on Levy's track record of finding a long term manager rather than Poch really. These people were likely as pessimistic before the appointment so 3 months in they were quick to reach judgement at any signs of a problem and quick to say things after disappointing losses.

I haven't looked into it myself but I bet if you go back and look when those posts were made I bet most of them were made on the day of horribly disappointing defeats when the negative emotions can be overcharged and you can easily exaggerate the negativity. Obviously when you go back a year later there's no context of what was happening at the time of the post so all that is left is to judge it with the benefit of hindsight. That's what I don't like.

But that's not the issue, pessimism is one thing, dismissing someone based on knee jerking is what is being ridiculed, have a look at the comments in Sweech's post

As I said I bumped a post which was made on the day he got appointed as manager.

The same shit happens in the match threads, when we go a goal down or when we are not getting a desired result, some of the posts are laughable.

 

[worcestersauce]

I'd like to think if I ever get something wrong I'd be happy to explain my reasons if it was brought up.
I know what you are thinking but you are wrong, I may get something wrong one day and you'll just have to face up to it.
For the record, the day before Poch was announced the last piece of ITK confirmed Moyes as manager and I went to bed happy, I'm happier now though.

 

[spursfan77]

The difference is I try to step back and use logic and reason in my posts. The people that have been called out don't seem to understand what logic and reason are.

Besides, if I have said any stupid things in the past I wouldn't cry for being called out. It's par for course. Although, unlike others, I am aware of accountability so do try and engage my brain 99% of the time.

It's nothing to do with being on a high horse, it's a general rule of life - if I chat bollocks to my mates then I expect them to ridicule me for it and I will them. Anyone who doesn't understand this must live quite a sheltered existence.

I agree. I've said before that I was wrong about poch as I didn't think he'd be able to turn it round and that the football was poor for large portions of last season (something you'd previously disagreed with). Fortunately he's been backed by levy and has. I also held firm in my criticism of Paulinho when he played for us that he was useless and got panned on here for it when I first started saying it. I was right and others were wrong. Some people's posts about him being the Brazilian lampard looked very silly.

People do get things wrong. Just ask our esteemed leader Daniel.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

It's not an issue that people were wrong, it's that some people were so arrogant in expressing their opinion and so certain they were right that it is now comical they were wrong.

Its this. Big time. (IMO )

We're all wrong at times so theres no mileage in persistently going back in time and pointing those occasions out, but you do get people who post in a certain way who might consider modifying their approach a little and not keep posting in a way that would see them chinned if they acted like that down their local

 

[Sweech]

That's probably true, but patience isn't a one way argument that always holds divine value either. One of the latest examples being Townsend. Fans who stuck with him aren't necessarily better, truer or superior fans simply because they stuck with him. Not that I can be bothered to go back and look for individual members who were wrong about him on some dark and dreary autumn day in 2013.

Isn't that a pretty selfish view lacking empathy? The whole summary of your point is the conclusion that because you don't do it neither should anyone else.

 

[Sweech]

Not really sure what difference that post has other than the language of the examples being harsher. I can see logic in all the arguments made for "not Poch" even if I disagreed with them at the time. Some of the arguments could have been worded in a better way but they were all still valid opinions. They look worse now only because we have the power of hindsight.

Nothing in the posts made me think they were trolls or delusional. So really my points from my posts above are the same and I don't see anything there that changes my mind.

Language used is incredibly important though.

Some seem to forget this is a public forum and not their personal diary. You are beholden to your audience whether you like it or not. Some have said this makes the audience "petty" which is totally irrelevant. Whether or whether not the audience is is inconsequential, you are beholden to them.

If you don't like it than clearly a public forum is not for you and your best bet would be writing in a personal diary as those are the standards which you would like upheld.

 

[goughie1966]

Charlie Adam continuing to be a knobhead and getting paid for it

Stoke midfielder Charlie Adam: "If you look at Tottenham and Arsenal's past histories, Arsenal are always in the Champions League, Tottenham got that little taste under Redknapp but then it disappeared for a bit.

"If they get into the Champions League that will be a success but will Pochettino be there next season? That is the big question for Daniel Levy - can he keep hold of him?"

 

[thinktank]

Charlie Adam continuing to be a knobhead and getting paid for it

Stoke midfielder Charlie Adam: "If you look at Tottenham and Arsenal's past histories, Arsenal are always in the Champions League, Tottenham got that little taste under Redknapp but then it disappeared for a bit.

"If they get into the Champions League that will be a success but will Pochettino be there next season? That is the big question for Daniel Levy - can he keep hold of him?"

Who cares what 'calamity face' says?

 

[Shadydan]

Gives a fuck what Charlie Adam thinks?

 

[KingNothing]

Adam can't get in the Stoke team so now he's become a pundit? Next he'll be talking about how reckless and nasty Spurs are... c***.