The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[DCSPUR]

Here's a post from Chelseayouth that I liked

http://thechels.net/2018/12/how-does-a-hudson-odoi-become-an-mbappe/

Also touches on a major bugbear of mine, when people say, so and so hasn't done well here since they have left so were never good enough for us.

This argument also doesn't take into account, that players like Fletcher, Butt, O'Shea, Evans, Brown, Cleverly, Welbeck for United and even Mason and Townsend for us, all performed admirably and made large contributions to the club they come through in but once left only fell down the football ladder and other than Welbeck could not play at a club at anywhere near a similar level and never went to pull up trees. Player that have trained in a certain way when playing around top quality players, will play better and look better and may never become world class but will save money. I think that this is the biggest point missed when utilising the academy, and something that Fergie understood. Just because a player doesn't pull up trees elsewhere ti doesn't mean he was never good enough to play for the first team, and in fact that player may have excelled if given the chance. Adapting to another club and style of football can really affect performance.

good article....this para seems to be what Poch wants to do but apparently some of our players (including Josh O) have been pushing for loans - tough situation:

"What lessons can the Blues learn to save themselves from dropping £70m on Christian Pulisic and turning Hudson-Odoi into that player? The biggest is surely that you ultimately have to develop these players yourself. The very best players in the world, in any given period, have developed outside of the loan system. Relying on someone else to do your work introduces numerous variables that all come with a fundamental loss of control. At their best they only work to a point that still leaves question marks about their (re)integration after returning from a loan, and at their worst they can leave the player questioning his future in the game, as several former members of the Loan Army have painfully testified."

 

[Locotoro]

Not really ...it won’t affect under 21 loans.

I've not seen that u21 are exempt. Do you have a link?

 

[IGSpur]

good article....this para seems to be what Poch wants to do but apparently some of our players (including Josh O) have been pushing for loans - tough situation:

"What lessons can the Blues learn to save themselves from dropping £70m on Christian Pulisic and turning Hudson-Odoi into that player? The biggest is surely that you ultimately have to develop these players yourself. The very best players in the world, in any given period, have developed outside of the loan system. Relying on someone else to do your work introduces numerous variables that all come with a fundamental loss of control. At their best they only work to a point that still leaves question marks about their (re)integration after returning from a loan, and at their worst they can leave the player questioning his future in the game, as several former members of the Loan Army have painfully testified."

I'm generally of the same opinion, which is why I never wanted Onomah and Edwards to go out on loan, but the conundrum is as a professional football do you wait until your 21/22 in the hope of getting game time, which is still unrealistic and risk leaving a club completely inexperienced or do you go out on loan and at least try and make yourself attractive to other clubs when you are inevitably released.

I think Pritchard is arguably the best example anyway of the situation above. Not only did i not think he intially needed to go on loan, he went Swindon and absolutely tore it up, in the same league as Alli. But that wasn't enough for Pritchard and he then had to go out again. He tears it up at Brentford this time. I don't know why he needed to go Brentford but he did. After injury rather than being introduced, I think we bought N'Koudou that January, he was then sent to a terrible football team, probably also due to his own decision making as he wanted to play. Looked poor at a rubbish team and then never made it here. Then you'll get the, well he's not doing well at Huddersfield maybe he never was good enough thoughts come in. It's the opposite to players like Alli and Maddision who start off at weaker clubs, with less technical players and ability. They get introduced early, look good and continue to move up and play with better and better players. We start with highly technical players who are used to playing around players of a similar ability, drop them down, or send them places to adapt to a different style of play and whether they succeed or not, they are still not guaranteed game time. It's all predictable and definitely something that needs to be worked on.

I made this post in 2015. http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/general-youth-football.122047/page-3#post-4821541

Of the victorious u17 side in 2014 out of 18 players 4 outfield players played for clubs below the Premier League, one abroad, the rest are all at Premier League clubs. 3 players from that squad have full international caps, and two of them were from the Championship clubs in Cook and Gomez, Solanke the only other. I think everyone would agree those 2 are the most established Prem players from the age group, and as you can see in my post it could be foreseen. Not because those 2 and Fry were the best players, they weren't though you could make a case for Gomez but because it was obvious that those kids were going to get the opportunities whereas the equally or more talented players would be stuck at the best Premier League clubs missing out on chances. And the fans would want to buy those players in the lower leagues for whatever money assuming they were better than what they already had. It is such a warped system it's incredible really.

 

[DJS]

Steve Bruce has been appointed Sheffield Wednesday manager ? fuck me Onomah has no luck.

Ha ha ha hadn't thought of that!

Onomah hasn't been lifting any trees either prior to his appointment, much as I've been hopeful he'll break through with us it looks very unlikely at present.

 

[coys200]

Bowden with seniors today and georgiou.

 

[Reece]

How do you get tickets to an U23 game? Notice we're playing Liverpool at Stevenage on Mon night...

 

[edson]

How do you get tickets to an U23 game? Notice we're playing Liverpool at Stevenage on Mon night...

Pay on the door tickets £5

 

[coys200]

Solanke going for £19m lol. What price then Onomah ?

 

[Locotoro]

Solanke going for £19m lol. What price then Onomah ?

onomah has much less Premiership game time

 

[Locotoro]

I'm generally of the same opinion, which is why I never wanted Onomah and Edwards to go out on loan, but the conundrum is as a professional football do you wait until your 21/22 in the hope of getting game time, which is still unrealistic and risk leaving a club completely inexperienced or do you go out on loan and at least try and make yourself attractive to other clubs when you are inevitably released.

I think Pritchard is arguably the best example anyway of the situation above. Not only did i not think he intially needed to go on loan, he went Swindon and absolutely tore it up, in the same league as Alli. But that wasn't enough for Pritchard and he then had to go out again. He tears it up at Brentford this time. I don't know why he needed to go Brentford but he did. After injury rather than being introduced, I think we bought N'Koudou that January, he was then sent to a terrible football team, probably also due to his own decision making as he wanted to play. Looked poor at a rubbish team and then never made it here. Then you'll get the, well he's not doing well at Huddersfield maybe he never was good enough thoughts come in. It's the opposite to players like Alli and Maddision who start off at weaker clubs, with less technical players and ability. They get introduced early, look good and continue to move up and play with better and better players. We start with highly technical players who are used to playing around players of a similar ability, drop them down, or send them places to adapt to a different style of play and whether they succeed or not, they are still not guaranteed game time. It's all predictable and definitely something that needs to be worked on.

I made this post in 2015. http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/general-youth-football.122047/page-3#post-4821541

Of the victorious u17 side in 2014 out of 18 players 4 outfield players played for clubs below the Premier League, one abroad, the rest are all at Premier League clubs. 3 players from that squad have full international caps, and two of them were from the Championship clubs in Cook and Gomez, Solanke the only other. I think everyone would agree those 2 are the most established Prem players from the age group, and as you can see in my post it could be foreseen. Not because those 2 and Fry were the best players, they weren't though you could make a case for Gomez but because it was obvious that those kids were going to get the opportunities whereas the equally or more talented players would be stuck at the best Premier League clubs missing out on chances. And the fans would want to buy those players in the lower leagues for whatever money assuming they were better than what they already had. It is such a warped system it's incredible really.

I understand your points but i have a question - the broken system would need radical changes to the transfer/loan system, the squad restrictions, the u23 league system... etc

What exactly would you propose to fix the system and how would you balance it with the pressure for clubs to win?

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

onomah has much less Premiership game time

Minutes I can't call but onomah has more appearances.

Onomah appearances 26 subs 26
Solanke appearances. 21 subs 16

 

[Westmorlandspur]

onomah has much less Premiership game time

I think you will find that’s wrong Solanke has hardly had a start at either club.
It will no doubt be about 10m down with rest in add ons if he does well. Nice profit for Liverpool though.

 

[coys200]

I think you will find that’s wrong Solanke has hardly had a start at either club.
It will no doubt be about 10m down with rest in add ons if he does well. Nice profit for Liverpool though.

It’s £19m with £5m in add ons ?

 

[Westmorlandspur]

It’s £19m with £5m in add ons ?

Josh could be worth 10m plus. Worlds gone mad

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

 

[dondo]

Chelsea have embodied everything wrong with talent development for years. Suck in every big talent they can find, win a fuckton of FA Youth Cups, then ignore them completely and farm them out with no career trajectory once they hit 19.

Should have just left it there

 

[dondo]

In saying that I am very optimistic about Skipp. Relative to his position and style of play, I think there is a lot of potential and I don't think there are many better players around his age in the world, which I find exciting. I also think there is a lot more to his game than he has shown even for the u23s and has the ability to be a swashbuckling box to box, however even if he is just kept to a strict DM role he could really be special. But I do get what you mean in that he doesn't bring that traditional excitement in his style of play and alot of what I have said, is dependent on whether or not he is allowed to develop, given games and is trusted to feel confident enough to expand his game. Otherwise I fear he could just become a sideways passer. However, even if he develops the confidence or becomes settled like Winks I think we will have a very handy player

I really hope Skipp can play a part from now till the end of the season to convince poch that when the summer comes and Dembele Snd Wanyama probably leave, that we don’t bulk buy and block his path like we did with kwp.
Next season would like to see a CM of Dier winks Sissoko Skipp and a new DM in the Dier mould

 

[coys200]

If solanke is £19m then Onomah has to be £12-15m.

Just stumbled upon that Ramelldo kids YouTube. Getting 1m views, he won’t even need to play can retire by 20 lol. Still looks tiny wonder if he will turn out to be any good. Considering our twitter is just 3m followers I’m surprised the club haven’t featured him at all be decent PR.

 

[Matecheck]

It's not been confirmed yet. But quite easy to answer as the best will have been offered contracts and likely pros by now.

Nile John is probably the best, then I'd say Michael Craig. Lusala and Robson are also good players. From the little I've heard about this Thomas kid he could easily be the outstanding talent.

Who is the Thomas kid you speak of? Do you have a full name?

 

[SpursD22]

Marsh, TJ Eyoma and Kazaiah Sterling in there