We really missed JJ today

[DC_Boy]

I respect that opinion. Yet whether you have always been a JJ fan or not (and I actually really like Jenas, just don't think he plays well with Zokora), to bring up this topic merely because today our two centre mids had an off colour performance is not fair. Your opening gambit is a non-sequiter in that you claim we missed JJ today... Yet you cannot be sure that he would have played any better as the whole team was a shambles. But I'm not knocking your opinion, I find it refreshing to be constructively arguing with a man who does atleast have a decent grip on the english language.:grin:

die gooner - well fair enough - but I prefer to think of my opinion that we missed JJ today as a reasonable hypothesis based on the facts of the game - but I take your point JJ may not improved things

(but he would have you know :wink:

 

[SpurSince57]

Let us face it. Today we had a large hole where our central midfield and central defence normally go. Whether JJ would have made any difference either way is entirely hypothetical.

 

[diegooners]

die gooner - well fair enough - but I prefer to think of my opinion that we missed JJ today as a reasonable hypothesis based on the facts of the game - but I take your point JJ may not improved things

(but he would have you know :wink:

:clap::beer:

 

[DC_Boy]

:clap::beer:

dg - and yes 57 it is hypothetical but as a fervent JJ supporter I had to get my tupp'worth in

 

[batigol]

Well, I agree that overall JJ is our best midfielder but his lack of range in passing and his inability to come out and make a pass under pressure when he picks the ball from deep in our half tells me that he should only play up front. I think Ramos recognizes that fact too and tries to push him further up field rather than dropping back.

That means we still need a deep-lying playmaker like Thudd because JJ isn't and will never be one.

For me, JJ must play with Thudd and that is our best pairing we have.

 

[Michey]

Surely we will be getting at least two new CMs in the summer.

I surely hope so...........because if a team "really missed JJ" they're really up shit creek.........if they want to achive something big anyway.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

The real problem was Butt was absolutely dominating the midfield yesterday. Zokora was too deep to challenge for the ball against him and Hudd was miles off the pace and stuck out right (what the hell was that all about). If we had JJ playing we all know he can run all day and would have at least put more pressure on Butt. Having said that he hasn't had a good game for a couple of months now so thinking he would have made a difference is asking a lot.

Altho Newcastle are a mess they still have some decent players and when we decided to match there 3 man midfield of Butt, Barton and Geremi with Hudd, Zok and Steed I was a little worried I have to admit. Its not good when our midfield can be dominated by just about every other midfield in the league. I am fully expecting Ramos to go out and buy 4 or 5 top class midfielders in the summer.

 

[yiddotilidie]

Most important midfielder at Spurs - simple.

The Hudd and Zoko are strollers, and a poor midfield in Newcastle completely outpassed and outclassed those two clowns.

 

[van_Pommel]

I dont think Jenas would have made a difference. I wouldn't say he's our best midfielder either. The Hudd is our best midfielder, not the most consistent of players but neither is Jenas. The difference is The Hudd is young and has bags of potential, Jenas has had potential for years but I for one have given up on him. I think I'd be tempted to play O'Hara next to The Hudd in the next game. He hasn't had a start in CM for a while and did really well there against Ar5ena1 at the immigrants.

 

[biggsyboy]

lol! The Hudd has flashes of excellence, but he is soo slow, and he turns around as quick as an oil tanker. Zakora as the guy who breaks up play and Jenas who is the fast athletic one, is the best combination at the moment

 

[yiddotilidie]

The Hudd our best midfielder? Is it April 1st????

 

[Michey]

The Hudd our best midfielder? Is it April 1st????

Not playing out left as he did against Newcastle but in the middle....easy.

Why?? He got vision something all the others completely lack.

 

[van_Pommel]

The Hudd has a footballing brain, JJ and Zokora are just athletes. Although in my opinion the Hudd is the better of the 3, the difference in ability is not vast, therefore its inevitable that there will be differences of opinion, so lets discuss rather discounting other peoples opinions without justification.

Look at players like Pirlo and Carrick, they're not very fast, and not nearly as strong as the Hudd. Also, they didn't start really showing their worth until they reached 23/24. The way to overcome being a slow player, is to improve your positional sense and off the ball movement. This can only come with experience and playing time.

 

[Jimmypearce7]

We only missed Jenas because he wasn't there, so we forgot his limitations.
Jenas is indicative of the problem the team has as a whole- they can perform at the top level but are not top players because they cannot do it consistently (with one or two exceptions).

 

[yiddotilidie]

Not playing out left as he did against Newcastle but in the middle....easy.

Why?? He got vision something all the others completely lack.

Positional sense is terrible, no pace, poor in the air for someone his size, isnt as strong as he should be, not mobile - but yea, he has vision.

 

[Kendall]

Michey can you not admit that you're wrong about JJ?

He may not be bloody Gerrard, but he is a very important play for us. It showed last season when we were languishing without him and it showed this season in our best performances.

 

[batigol]

Zakora as the guy who breaks up play and Jenas who is the fast athletic one, is the best combination at the moment

Lol...so who is going to pass the ball in that combination? We have seen that combination often enough and the answer is neither. Yes, they both have excellent success rate but it does not take a genius to 5 metres sideways and backwards all the time. When Thudd isn't playing, there isn't anyone around to switch play from left to right fast enough and accurately enough, and given Ramo's emphasis on wing play, this lack of passing range will hamper his tactics.

Basically, I don't believe that JJ and Zok is our best combination simply because they cannot do what a midfielder should do best at; pass effectively.

 

[bjdspur]

The real problem was Butt was absolutely dominating the midfield yesterday. Zokora was too deep to challenge for the ball against him and Hudd was miles off the pace and stuck out right (what the hell was that all about). If we had JJ playing we all know he can run all day and would have at least put more pressure on Butt. Having said that he hasn't had a good game for a couple of months now so thinking he would have made a difference is asking a lot.

Altho Newcastle are a mess they still have some decent players and when we decided to match there 3 man midfield of Butt, Barton and Geremi with Hudd, Zok and Steed I was a little worried I have to admit. Its not good when our midfield can be dominated by just about every other midfield in the league. I am fully expecting Ramos to go out and buy 4 or 5 top class midfielders in the summer.

I agree that Butt was the problem, but Ramos will only need to replace the entire midfield in the summer if he wants to play that formation, which seems unlikely.
I was watching on a constantly buffering stream so I can't be sure, but from what I could make out berba was playing as the deepest of our three up front and should have been putting Butt under pressure. Bent and Keano were harrying their defence but, especially in the second half, they had an easy outlet to Butt. Zokopops was playing deep so shouldn't have been near to Butt and if Steeeed or Thudd had come inside then there would have been acres for their full backs to go into.
Butt isn't the greatest player in the world, but with that much space he is going to cause damage. With that formation defending has to start from the front. Owen did it for them but Berba didn't do it for us. Don't see how the midfield can be blamed for that and if JJ had been playing he would have been more likely to be drawn in to his natural CM position: it would have put pressure on Butt but left a huge hole down out right side.

 

[diegooners]

lol! The Hudd has flashes of excellence, but he is soo slow, and he turns around as quick as an oil tanker. Zakora as the guy who breaks up play and Jenas who is the fast athletic one, is the best combination at the moment

In theory you are probably right. But neither of them can really pass, which is an issue for Berbatov. Jenas and Zokora have only once played really well together, and it was in the Carling Cup Final. Almost every time they play together they get dominated because neither of them has a footballing brain. The Hudd is quickening up and on sheer talent he is second only to Berbatov at the club. So given we have no other passing midfielder.... It seems to me imperitave that he plays....for now atleast:shrug:

 

[yiddotilidie]

Lol...so who is going to pass the ball in that combination? We have seen that combination often enough and the answer is neither. Yes, they both have excellent success rate but it does not take a genius to 5 metres sideways and backwards all the time. When Thudd isn't playing, there isn't anyone around to switch play from left to right fast enough and accurately enough, and given Ramo's emphasis on wing play, this lack of passing range will hamper his tactics.

Basically, I don't believe that JJ and Zok is our best combination simply because they cannot do what a midfielder should do best at; pass effectively.

So thats the role of a midfielder in your opinion?

What about breaking up play, what about supporting the strikers? The Hudd doesnt offer those skills does he?

Fact is, the fans are split on this. For me, JJ is the key man in midfield, The Hudd when on form can be very decent, but Zokora is the weak link and should be sold in the summer.