Zokora (big Stat thread)

Bill_Oddie

Everything in Moderation
Staff
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
19,120
#22
Why people are talking about Zokora when we have such a poor goal keeper is a joke. Zokora is a fine player and does his job in the team, I only wish for others to do theirs.
Or is the joke that some people are incapable of commenting on the actual subject of a thread and insist on trying to push their own agendas and - for want of a better word - spamming?

Oh, wait, no. Thats not funny at all.

Keep it Zokora, please. :up:
 

Bill_Oddie

Everything in Moderation
Staff
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
19,120
#25
Good thread, BC. I certainly appreciate the work, and am quite surprised by the findings. Zokora is certainly not as bad as many would have it. If only he were actually as good as his fans claim, he'd be lethal.

One thing that made me smile was your 'miss perception' typo, though. If only such a pageant really existed. :wink:
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
4,410
#27
Zokora is a good player, but it's not really about that at the moment, what he isn't is a holding midfielder and neither is Jenas, Huddlestone, Boateng or even Tainio really, tho I feel he'd probably do the best job.

The most glaring thing to me watchin us right now is the amount of time and space we give teams in between the half way line and our 18 yard line. As we all know this has led to many long range goals scored on us and time to deliver telling balls into the box that are also scored from - tho that tends to be more of an issue with general closing down for our fullbacks.

The point is that, even tho we've said it before, we've STILL not replaced Michael Carrick and the frankly stunning job that he did in our midfield and the clearly HUGE impact it had on our defence - point to 35 goals conceded in his last season at the club to something like 55 goals conceded last season with barely any differences anywhere else.

What REALLY annoys me is that Man Poo went out and bought Carrick and then still went out and got Hargreaves as well....i mean, why do they have to have both when you wouldn't really want to pair them together, at least, I dont think so.

Let us have our Carrick back :-(
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,995
#28
DZ imo, is more of a replacement for Davids than Carrick. He's not so much a holding player as a spikey/aggressive midfielder. You can argue about the quality of the job he does, but I'm pretty sure that's what he is.
 

jimbo

Angina Expert
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
6,164
#29
It seems to me that Zokora's performances have got considerably better since I started openly criticising him. I've seen this effect before with Ravi Bopara, Ian Bell and the entire England Rugby World Cup squad. Next I think I'm going to pick on Robinson, Dawson, Berbatov and Jenas as they seem most in need of a boost.

Back on topic, my impression of the recent improvement doesn't come from anything statistical but from watching the games in which he's played, he seems to have cut out the running up blind alleys and taking himself out of the game defensively and started tackling, breaking up play and retaining possession. At the moment the problem in our midfield would seem to be Jenas' lack of form. For a player that had a big impact on last season by both his absence and subsequent return I'm quite disappointed with him so far this season.
 

muffwah

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
508
#30
PPM Passes per min = Highest score best
SP% Successful passes and rate = Highest score best
Min PerTackle = Lowest score best

----------------Min------AP(PPM)--SP(%)------T(MPT)

Zokora---------373------270(0.72)--232(90)------17(21.9)

Gerrard---------473------260(0.54)--203(78)-----17(27.8)

Alonso----------438------265(0.60)--206(77)-----16((27.3)

ReoCoker--------540-----207(0.38)--163(79)------40(13.5)

Dunn------------543-----240(0.44)--176(73)------23(23.6)

McCann---------519-----166(0.31)--122(73)------2(20.76)

Carsley---------464------131(0.28)--107(81)-----6(77.3)

Arteta----------629------232(0.36)--182(78)-----19(33.1)

Hamman-------720-------476(0.66)--393(82)-----37(19.45)

Butt----------630-------300(0.47)--218(72)-----31(20.32)

S Davis(Por)---781-----333(0.42)---264(79)-----38(20.5)

Noble-----------459----295(0.64)---240(81)------26(17.6)

Lampard--------450----317(0.70)--274(86)------13(34.6)

Makalele--------243-----224(0.92)--189(84)------10(24.3)

Flamini----------528-----396(0.75)--337(85)------22(24)

Carrick----------400-----392(0.98)--326(83)------19(21)

Fabregas-------521------469(0.90)--368(78)------17(30.6)


What we can see is that he has the best pass completion (inc Fabregas/Gerrad/Alonso/Lampard/Makalele) in this comprehensive premiership comparison.

Now couple this with the fact that he also has a higher passes per minute ratio than all except Makalele, Flamini, Fabregas & Carick.

So he is not only the most accurate passer but also the 4th productive behind some pretty impressive candidates playing in better teams.

As far as tackling goes he has a very similar tackles per minute ratio to McCann, Hamman, Butt, Carrick and is only really bettered meaningfully by Noble and Reo Coker.

Is it time, like Lee, that we start to accept that while he may not be the new Viera/Hoddle highbred some had hoped for, that he is at least a pretty decent footballer who does not deserve the slagging he’s had from some.
Have always always defended him, he is a good player, not a world beater but a good solid central midfielder. We know he isn't a Fabregas or a Gerrard but people give him unfair criticism. How anyone could want Hudd over him is mind boggling
 

degoose

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
Messages
2,149
#31
i think hes been very impressive since coming back in the last few games, he,s been tackling loads, covering up for chimbonda's runs and hassling players constantly. I was very impressed with him against liverpool .
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
1,606
#33
I think the unfair criticism of Zokora can be applied to our entire midfield.

The story of our season so far has been strikers not scoring, defenders not defending and a keeper not keeping.
The fact we rarely concede in open play coupled with 16 goals in 9 games would suggest the one area we are doing well in is midfield.

Yet I still read constant criticism of Zokora, Huddlestone, Jenas, Tainio, Malbranque and even Lennon now.
The one area which our entire fanbase perceives as our weakest link has actually been our strongest so isn't about time we laid off them now?
 

Capocrimini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Messages
1,204
#34
Jenas did very well last game, what are you on? If we can replicate our last 135 minutes of prem football for the rest of the season we are in the top 6 easy.

Our midfields been good, its been our defence an dstrikers that have struggled to be fair.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
8,196
#35
Great post, good to see someone sticking up for Zokora as he seems to get an unfair amount of crap onthese boards.

The only thing stats can't show is how effective a partnership he forms with others on the pitch, and this is unfortunatley where we fall down right now, but it goes to show that as a defensive midfielder he isn't doing much wrong (the liverpool game sunday also showed that).
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
Thread starter #36
I think the unfair criticism of Zokora can be applied to our entire midfield.

The story of our season so far has been strikers not scoring, defenders not defending and a keeper not keeping.
The fact we rarely concede in open play coupled with 16 goals in 9 games would suggest the one area we are doing well in is midfield.

Yet I still read constant criticism of Zokora, Huddlestone, Jenas, Tainio, Malbranque and even Lennon now.
The one area which our entire fanbase perceives as our weakest link has actually been our strongest so isn't about time we laid off them now?

Backed up up by the fact that we are out possessing teams like Liverpool away from home.

I have been saying the same thing for months. We have strikers that don't defend from the front and defenders that don't defend at the back. The stress this puts on our midfield is enormous. Add to that that Jol continually puts square pegs in round holes in the midfield. At alot of it would be solvable with better management and coaching.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
17,956
#37
Zokora is not bad, and certainly far better than many people on here give him credit for (I've read some truly ridiculous crap on here in the last few weeks from some people who should know better).

But he's still not good enough, which is, I think, the most important point.
 

Paxtonite

Active Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
1,956
#39
Zokora lacks goals, end of
And this is a problem i guess because we don't score enough of them?? Given our defensive frailties you may have a point otherwise this really does not matter even if it would be a nice addition to his game.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
Thread starter #40
Zokora is not bad, and certainly far better than many people on here give him credit for (I've read some truly ridiculous crap on here in the last few weeks from some people who should know better).

But he's still not good enough, which is, I think, the most important point.
On what basis. On the basis that we have been watching Viera, Roy keane, Glen Hoddle, Paul Scholes, Gattuso, Pirlo, Makalele, Guili, Gerrard in spurs shirts recently or he is too good for us on the basis that we have actually been watching David Howels, steve sedgeley, gus poyet, Nielson, Fruend, Sherwwod, leonardson, Michael Brown, Sean davis, Ghaly, Murphy, Huddlestone etc.

The he's not good enough could apply more relatively to incompetant twats like Robinson, Dawson & Jol. Or strikers that keep missing chances and not working for the team or Chimbonda's inability to concentrate in his own box or Lennon inability to be involved for more than 10 minutes a game.

What I hoped these stats would prove was that actually Zokora does a valuable job. he may not do anything spectacular (like Sissoko at Liv did last year - could they be missing him ?) but he is actually the most valuable component in us retaining possession in games. The opposition can't score when we have possession. We can.
 
Top