Tottenham Vs West Brom: Match Thread

BuryMeInEngland · Sep 22, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
Has been for some while now. We have no general, or leader of any description in midfield who show's grit and determination. Been like this for several seasons. MS would not have been the answer either.

I hate the little turd, but Rooney is the real deal as captain of Man Yoo. When their defense let in the third goal (I think) he went fucking mental on his teammates, screaming and yelling at them to do better. We don't have that kind of fire in any of our players.

m*****73 · Sep 22, 2014

StartingPrice said:
Then you did miss the point - I was merely pointing out that leaving the 2nd top four finish out is misrepresentation.

I never said it was a big achievement. I never said it was a small achievement. I said we had finished fourth twice since Levy made big changes after dismissing GHodd. And that, added together with the number of times we have finished fifth came to more than the number of times we had finished sixth or lower - while being the sixth best financed team, the very fact that we have done this is proof of improvement under Levy/ENIC. It may not be as fat or as much improvement as some would like, but that is different to there being no improvement or going backward.

The reasoning and consequences of Mr Redknapp's dismissal have been done to death elsewhere. he was a 65 YO with a heart problem who had been supported through heart surgery and a court case, only to meet with Chelsea (allegedly) and whore himself for the England job incessantly, despite being offered an improved contract. he did this to the point where he apparently took his eye off the ball and allegedly lost the dressing room - throwing away a commanding position in third place, and even a possible title challenge, made obvious by winning the very first game after missing out of the England job (and not the first time he had lost a good position in the league in the second half of a season). And then, when he should have been being circumspect, he decided to hire an aggressive new agent in pursuit of the improved contract he was offered toward off England interest - to the point of making an insensitive public statement while on a golf course at approximately the same time as Levy was burying his mother (FFS). On top of which, apparently, his constant media whoring and inability to hold a party line seriously peeved Joe Lewis off, and he persistently refused to buy into the youth policy that Levy had made a central pivot of his strategic vision, and invested a large amount of time, effort and money in. He gave us some great performances and some great nights, he wasn't as tactically inept as some would have it, but neither was he a tactics guru - and he was as much of a shambles as anyone when it came to breaking down bus-parking teams. If he had stayed, as soon as there was any doubt about Hodgeson, or whenever England had a bad result, the circus would have revved up again. We are only a few games into our second proper head coach after him and most of the players have been bought with an intention for them to develop, so it is a bid soon to be definitively claiming his dismissal to be a disaster. Most importantly, he had nearly four full years in charge - the myth that it somehow proves Levy is trigger happy comes from his friends in the media, led by son, Jamie, who never misses a chance to bad mouth us, and ignoring all of the facts, above, but instead peddling a simplistic version where good 'ol 'arry finished fourth and what more could he 'ave dan fer fook sake. It is in my opinion, as you will guess, BS.

I understand what folk are objecting to in ENIC. It just doesn't make any sense to me. When ENIC took over they set their stall out to improve the club while running it from the revenues it generates. They have done that. Get annoyed with them for doing something other than what they set out to do, by all means. Aspire for us to have owners who can progress us further and faster than ENIC can - I share that aspiration. But I don't particularly want an oil-mafioso owner or a Vincent Tan. I can't stand the constant whingeing because we aren't as free-spending as the oil oligarch clubs, unless it be with the admission that you want that for the club and don't give a fahook how or where the money was acquired or what it does to the game. And I sure as shit ain't sugar don't understand why anyone would spend half their lives being incensed with ENIC for setting their stall out to do something and then doing it.

I think you are right that the plan was always to sell after the stadium is built - and make a profit from the sale. And I think you are right (ITK suggests so) that Levy and Lewis may be on different pages now, with one wanting to sell and the other wanting to carry on with the project.

Typical deluded rant.

You back Levy at every turn. You credit ENIC/Levy for every success and blame Redknapp for every problem.

Misguided, blind and wrong.

The facts are obvious for anyone who cares to look at them without prejudice.

We finished in the top 4 twice under Redknapp. Fact.

We got to the QFs of the Champions League under Redknapp. Fact.

We played a really attractive brand of fast, flowing football under Redknapp. Fact.

We developed young players like Bale, Walker and Sandro who earned extended runs in the first team under Redknapp. Fact.

We haven't done any of the above since he left. Fact.

And yet you still can't resist the chance to write another rambling post full of personal attacks on Redknapp. And full of praise (and excuses) for ENIC/Levy. Ridiculous.

JerryGarcia · Sep 22, 2014

Syn_13 said:
Just saw the highlights of the Everton v Palace game. It's funny because they lost at home too, many thanks to a howler of a performance from Howard. However, the way they attack is so much more threatening that us. Their attacking players are no better than ours by right, yet they really do attack with pace and venom. They're not afraid to look to play through the middle instead of constantly shifting it out wide. We played way too many direct balls today and it was clear that WBA had us sussed. Lescott and Dawson were happy to wait for those balls to come in and soak up the pressure.

Maybe Everton's attacking prowess is the result of them sticking by their manager for more than 5 minutes? I've noticed a few people here are already starting to turn on Pochettino, unsurprisingly it's mostly the same group of boo boys who did the same with previous managers (though I'm quoting your post, I am NOT in any way trying to lump you in with them Syn).

What chance does any manager have of turning us around when he's not even afforded a few dodgy results on the way to implementing his tactics? For all the managers Levy has sacked, at the moments he's pulled the trigger there has always been a large section of fans egging him on to do it. It always gets glossed over but it's true going back to Jol or even Hoddle.

I don't think there's an easy fix for Spurs, there are various problems within the club and within the fan base and it's useless to try assigning blame to one group (Board/Manager/Players/Fans) specifically. It would therefore probably be a good idea to try something new for a change and stick by the new guy, even if we do lose a few more of these types of games, just as a way to try breaking the cycle.

JerryGarcia · Sep 22, 2014

mquinn73 said:
Typical deluded rant.

You back Levy at every turn. You credit ENIC/Levy for every success and blame Redknapp for every problem.

Misguided, blind and wrong.

The facts are obvious for anyone who cares to look at them without prejudice.

We finished in the top 4 twice under Redknapp. Fact.

We got to the QFs of the Champions League under Redknapp. Fact.

We played a really attractive brand of fast, flowing football under Redknapp. Fact.

We developed young players like Bale, Walker and Sandro who earned extended runs in the first team under Redknapp. Fact.

We haven't done any of the above since he left. Fact.

And yet you still can't resist the chance to write another rambling post full of personal attacks on Redknapp. And full of praise (and excuses) for ENIC/Levy. Ridiculous.

Be honest, you didn't read the whole post did you? :LOL:

Gaz_Gammon · Sep 22, 2014

BuryMeInEngland said:
I hate the little turd, but Rooney is the real deal as captain of Man Yoo. When their defense let in the third goal (I think) he went fucking mental on his teammates, screaming and yelling at them to do better. We don't have that kind of fire in any of our players.

I saw that as well. We have NO ONE with that passion. No one.

Gaz_Gammon · Sep 22, 2014

JerryGarcia said:
Maybe Everton's attacking prowess is the result of them sticking by their manager for more than 5 minutes? I've noticed a few people here are already starting to turn on Pochettino, unsurprisingly it's mostly the same group of boo boys who did the same with previous managers (though I'm quoting your post, I am NOT in any way trying to lump you in with them Syn).

What chance does any manager have of turning us around when he's not even afforded a few dodgy results on the way to implementing his tactics? For all the managers Levy has sacked, at the moments he's pulled the trigger there has always been a large section of fans egging him on to do it. It always gets glossed over but it's true going back to Jol or even Hoddle.

I don't think there's an easy fix for Spurs, there are various problems within the club and within the fan base and it's useless to try assigning blame to one group (Board/Manager/Players/Fans) specifically. It would therefore probably be a good idea to try something new for a change and stick by the new guy, even if we do lose a few more of these types of games, just as a way to try breaking the cycle.

I beg to differ............

Maybe Everton's attacking prowess is the result of them sticking by their manager for more than 5 minutes? I've noticed a few people here are already starting to turn on Pochettino, unsurprisingly it's mostly the same group of boo boys who did the same with previous managers

He's been there for one season and finished above Spurs in his first. He recognised talent in Lukaku and his Chairman went out and brought him for a Club record. (where was Levy in the transfer of MS someone Poch wanted?)

"Gloss" over that.

What chance does any manager have of turning us around when he's not even afforded a few dodgy results on the way to implementing his tactics? For all the managers Levy has sacked, at the moments he's pulled the trigger there has always been a large section of fans egging him on to do it. It always gets glossed over but it's true going back to Jol or even Hoddle.

"A few dodgy results"

I guess i don't need to go over the AVB results of Man Citeh and Liverpool (assuming you are talking about Levy's whole body of work?)

Poch has had the team for a good few games, and we have outplayed QPR the perennial cannon fodder of the PL, and then struggled against Sunderland (who lost as many home games as Fulham last season) and a lucky injury time winner at West Ham. So West Ham, Sunderland and QPR plus bottom club WBA and we have looked pedestrian against all but QPR. The Liverpool game showed us up for what we are. Poch himself said that he is happy with the squad, one that was added to by over one hundred million pounds but a season or so ago.

I don't think there's an easy fix for Spurs, there are various problems within the club and within the fan base and it's useless to try assigning blame to one group (Board/Manager/Players/Fans) specifically. It would therefore probably be a good idea to try something new for a change and stick by the new guy, even if we do lose a few more of these types of games, just as a way to try breaking the cycle.

The problems "within the club" are fairly easy to see. Steer the club to a new ground and cash in as high as you can. Cash in your chips and retire.

By "losing a few more of these types of games" it just shows how little progress the Club under Levy's stewardship has made on the pitch, while off the pitch the Clubs stock has apparently tripled (almost quadrupled) in value according to newspaper reports.

So just how much does the main board really want this team to succeed. My guess would be to another pound on the value and nothing less.

Nanky_1988 · Sep 22, 2014

We lack leaders that is true but the reason we strughled today is we didnt play with any tempo at all! That is Poch's whole philosophy so without the tempo se were always going to struggle!

Its going to take time and people need to stop having a meltdown after a bad result! Its clear poch wasn't happy and he'll be trying to everything he can to put it right but at the end of the day its down to the players!

JerryGarcia · Sep 22, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
I beg to differ............

He's been there for one season and finished above Spurs in his first. He recognised talent in Lukaku and his Chairman went out and brought him for a Club record. (where was Levy in the transfer of MS someone Poch wanted?)

"Gloss" over that.

"A few dodgy results"

I guess i don't need to go over the AVB results of Man Citeh and Liverpool (assuming you are talking about Levy's whole body of work?)

Poch has had the team for a good few games, and we have outplayed QPR the perennial cannon fodder of the PL, and then struggled against Sunderland (who lost as many home games as Fulham last season) and a lucky injury time winner at West Ham. So West Ham, Sunderland and QPR plus bottom club WBA and we have looked pedestrian against all but QPR. The Liverpool game showed us up for what we are.

The problems "within the club" are fairly easy to see. Steer the club to a new ground and cash in as high as you can. Cash in your chips and retire.

By "losing a few more of these types of games" it just shows how little progress the Club under Levy's stewardship has made on the pitch, while off the pitch the Clubs stock has apparently tripled (almost quadrupled) in value according to newspaper reports.

So just how much does the main board really want this team to succeed. My guess would be to another pound on the value and nothing less.

I was talking about Pochettino and the grumblings that have started on the back of a few dodgy results in the last couple of weeks. Just pointing out that it's too early to start down that road, do you disagree? You can be as angry as you like with Levy but there weren't too many complaints last summer when we signed "the beatles" and I don't see how he can be blamed for a lack of effort on the pitch? Yes he's ultimately responsible for signings but it's easy to critisize with the benefit of hindsight.

No doubt I'll be called a Levy lover or something along those lines now but as I've said before, I support the club not the board. I think the best thing for the club is to stick by the manager and players through hard times, if Cain Hoy can do better then great but too many people have their hopes up that this deal will even happen and are pinning all their hopes on it.

jolsnogross · Sep 22, 2014

jezz said:
No hug, just a little patience after 5 league games.

I'm happy to give the manager all season, barring catastrophe.....so anything approaching a survival fight I suppose. I felt the same way about Sherwood. But that doesn't mean I won't be commenting about performances and line ups or approach in the meantime. And the issue of boring slow footy and mediocre attack has been going on longer than 5 games...so if he didn't know already, that's what Poch has to resolve.

StartingPrice · Sep 22, 2014

mquinn73 said:
Typical deluded rant.

You back Levy at every turn. You credit ENIC/Levy for every success and blame Redknapp for every problem.

Misguided, blind and wrong.

The facts are obvious for anyone who cares to look at them without prejudice.

We finished in the top 4 twice under Redknapp. Fact.

We got to the QFs of the Champions League under Redknapp. Fact.

We played a really attractive brand of fast, flowing football under Redknapp. Fact.

We developed young players like Bale, Walker and Sandro who earned extended runs in the first team under Redknapp. Fact.

We haven't done any of the above since he left. Fact.

And yet you still can't resist the chance to write another rambling post full of personal attacks on Redknapp. And full of praise (and excuses) for ENIC/Levy. Ridiculous.

Wow, you seem to be quite the expert on my insane ramblings

Your non-personal attack setting straight of me would be far easier for my little mind to take if you hadn't begun by pointing out to me, with added FACT emphasis, that Mr Rekdnapp had got us two 4th placed finishes. You see the post you quote, and therefore presumably read, begins by calling another poster to account for misrepresenting this as ONE 4th placed finish - and me giving Mr Redknapp his dues for gaining two top four finishes. But never let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh

And I'm guessing that during your minute study of me you have missed the several criticisms I have directed towards Mr Levy. Not least:
1) When everyone else was rounding upon Damien Comolli with righteous fury and furious anger, I was the one pointing out that the buck had to stop with Mr Levy, as he had either given Mr Comolli the remit and powers he was being decried for (which included hiring and firing of head coach), or he had allowed Mr Comolli to step over and above his remit.
2) I observed, before anybody else had so far as I know, that Mr Levy seemed intent on taking over the role of DoF, even though he had no experience for it, when he should have either dispensed with the role and left a traditional style British manager in charge of transfers, or else hired a head coach in tandem with a proper DoF as that was what he seemed to want. We call this original thought, sorry if you belief it to be over-rated and exclude it from evidence.
3) I have also said several times, and, again, originally so far as I know, that Mr Levy's problem isn't sacking managers/head coaches too fast, it is hiring the wrong ones in the first place.

Perhaps you missed these instances of non-Levy-lackey behaviour

And I'm guessing you minute study off me missed the several praises I have directed towards Mr Rekdnapp. Not least:
1) He came in and took hold of a dispirited squad and got it playing.
2) He knew how to fill the squad out where it was lacking and did so immediately - for instance in hiring Wilson Palacios to provide some steel in midfield.
3) He gave us some memorable days and evenings playing some of the best football we have seen in decades.
4) He got Modric and Bale, to name but two, playing at a level that hints at an ability with man management that needs to be recognised.
5) He was more astute with tactics than many on here give him credit for, which is a pity as it prevents a proper assessment of his legacy.

In the post you quoted and, therefore, presumably read, however, I do give a list of reasons that contributed to his dismissal - many confirmed by some of the most respected ITK's on this site, and which bring into sharp focus the claims from his media chums that there was no reason to dismiss him and Mr Levy is simply trigger happy.

I think what is confusing you is that I way up the pros and cons of all parties and don't make a clear one side villain one side goody prognosis. Yeah, I could see that being a bit difficult for you to grasp. But please, do take time to read this post and reconsider, because I do find it rather perplexing and upsetting that you should falsely hold me in such contempt - especially when I hardly deserve to be accused of making personal attacks on Mr Rekdnapp and full of praise and excuses for Levy/ENIC. Oh, please say that you will...I shan't sleep well while this injustice hangs o'er my head - like a veritable Sword of Damocles

StartingPrice · Sep 22, 2014

JerryGarcia said:
Be honest, you didn't read the whole post did you?

Not too worry...I guess I'm can't like a lightning rod, taking the heat from the elemental forces (no elemental isn't a cryptic)

It reminds me of the scene in clockwork Orange where humble narrator poor little Alex is released from his torments in prison. Where he is set upon by the old tinker who recognises him for one of the fiends who gave him a pummeling, and the old codgers set about him with their weak tolchoks and the curses of their whiskey breaths. He is rescued by the rozzers, only for it to turn out to be former droogie, Dim, and former enemy, and former rival, Stinking Heap of Oily Lard Billy Goat Billy Boy, in person. These uncaring beast take him into the country for another pummeling session. I guess I kinda feel like that...getting all the blame for the ills of the World...and me a poor innocent chelovek lost in the World.

Could you spare me some cutter me brother

shelfboy68 · Sep 22, 2014

cookiemonster said:
This Pochettino is just another punt by the little baldy probably he's cheaper than the other options

Benitez would have been a much better option

That was who i originally wanted the fella has proven success.

Jenko · Sep 22, 2014

SPURSLIFE said:
How many transitions do you want? We have been in transition for the last 10 years.

Same as you I'm guessing, I'm fed up with it too, but what did they expect would happen when they sack a manager every 6 months?

haydsmith · Sep 22, 2014

You can quibble with selections or substitutions to a degree, but the fact is the squad is bloated with mediocre players. The best outfield players are 7th in the league standard. Some people could see this last year but the majority chose to believe it was all Sherwood's fault and they were not showing their real ability. The sooner the club accepts they wasted £110m the better, because they need to start again and fast.

Jamturk · Sep 22, 2014

haydsmith said:
You can quibble with selections or substitutions to a degree, but the fact is the squad is bloated with mediocre players. The best outfield players are 7th in the league standard. Some people could see this last year but the majority chose to believe it was all Sherwood's fault and they were not showing their real ability. The sooner the club accepts they wasted £110m the better, because they need to start again and fast.

Too late for that

We settled for 2nd best again with Stamboulli and Fazio

instead of Mussacchio and Schneiderlin

All the clubs below us are shopping in the same market as us so we are slowly dropping back into the pack.

haydsmith · Sep 22, 2014

Jamturk said:
Too late for that

We settled for 2nd best again with Stamboulli and Fazio

instead of Mussacchio and Schneiderlin

All the clubs below us are shopping in the same market as us so we are slowly dropping back into the pack.

Agree it may be too late.

jezz · Sep 22, 2014

Barry Mead said:
You think we had that many players played well against Sunderland? I certainly didn't and in particular our defence which was awful. Same as today toothless in attack and wide open at the back, shouldn't have been too hard a decision

Really?
I give up

THFCSPURS19 · Sep 22, 2014

cookiemonster said:
This Pochettino is just another punt by the little baldy probably he's cheaper than the other options

Benitez would have been a much better option

How can you call yourself a Spurs fan?

Jamturk · Sep 22, 2014

I was there yesterday, from start to finish I was looking into our players eyes. They are not up to what we consider our level is now.

Put simply they are not good enough, when our best player is a very raw Lamela then you are going to have problems.

For me the problem is ENIC and the policy of always buying potential with a view of selling on at a profit.

The experienced players/leaders in our team are Kaboul and Adebayor, 1 who is struggling to justify his place in the team and the other who has a questionable attitude.

The balance between experience and potential is all wrong and is the hub of all our problems on the pitch.

Barry Mead · Sep 22, 2014

jezz said:
Really?
I give up

You should give up if you think that was a good performance

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