Tottenham Vs West Brom: Match Thread

[Barry Mead]

I was talking about Pochettino and the grumblings that have started on the back of a few dodgy results in the last couple of weeks. Just pointing out that it's too early to start down that road, do you disagree? You can be as angry as you like with Levy but there weren't too many complaints last summer when we signed "the beatles" and I don't see how he can be blamed for a lack of effort on the pitch? Yes he's ultimately responsible for signings but it's easy to critisize with the benefit of hindsight.

No doubt I'll be called a Levy lover or something along those lines now but as I've said before, I support the club not the board. I think the best thing for the club is to stick by the manager and players through hard times, if Cain Hoy can do better then great but too many people have their hopes up that this deal will even happen and are pinning all their hopes on it.

I think you are always going to get grumblings when things are going badly and praise when things are going well. Never mind the fans getting on a managers back ENIC have had 9 managers in the last 11 years. Any manager taking the job knows he has to deliver, he knows he isn't going to be able to have time.
He also knows he inherits a squad that has pretty consistently been top 5 in the last nine years, so arguably should have the nucleus of a good team to develop.
He also should know that Levy is more interested in buying young players of great potential cheap and on low salaries and is not inclined to buy experienced players earning high wages and with declining resale values
Seems the obvious thing for me that new managers look at finding a shape and style that maximises the quality of the players he has and addresses the weaknesses that are there rather than look to fit them into a style and shape that may not suit the strengths
We have had 20 players arrive in the last three windows and more than that number leave, why? because instead of bringing in a manager that has the technical ability and the pragmatism to find a shape and style that best uses what we have and improve it we have brought in managers that want to fit them into one style and shape regardless. They happily offload decent players to bring in others not necessarily any better, often worse and not really focussing on the weaknesses already there but in the weaknesses that don't fit the style
I blame Levy primarily, we were genuine top 4 candidates with Harry, but Harry was a hugely experienced manager, not fixed to a given style by any dogma, happy to get the team playing, happy to develop and adapt. His only real weakness was that in knowing the need for balance in the squad and the need for players with character, drive, desire and leadership he was often at odds with Levy over transfer targets. The compromise was that we didn't get players he would have preferred and instead he had to make do with freebies in their declining years rather than in or around their peak
I don't think people are criticising Poch because of yesterdays result or yesterdays performance and I think people are aware that he had a short pre season and has only played 8 competitive games, however people whilst not necessarily expecting great performances or always winning score lines do expect to see signs that we are improving
On the back of save QPR some very disappointing performances, a weak transfer window, some very questionable team selections, some strange tactics and substitutions and the pretty lets say surprising captaincy and vice captaincy decisions many are feeling concerns
Lets be fair Poch arrived with no tangible track record, an inexperienced manager who had yo yo'd Espanyol from a low position to a mid table position back to the bottom and had taken over a Soton side doing OK and establishing itself in the PL and getting a decent position in it's second season. Lots of managers have managed to steer new clubs to a decent position, he moved before anyone knew if he could maintain it. Lets be fair Koeman currently is doing better at Soton despite half the first team leaving.

There are more questions about Poch than answers at this stage, it's understandable questions are being asked, if he starts to show improvements then that will quickly placate the concerns, it's really down to him and how he does from now on.

 

[jezz]

You should give up if you think that was a good performance

Barry if you think the performance against Sunderland was poor, then seriously find another hobby.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I said it after the Sunderland game: That back four will always ship goals.

Eriksen does not suit our current system... if you can call it that.

Adebayor is back to not giving a fuck.

 

[nidge]

I said it after the Sunderland game: That back four will always ship goals.

Eriksen does not suit our current system... if you can call it that.

Adebayor is back to not giving a fuck.

People were crediting Sherwood last season for getting the best out of Adebayor but in reality it was because Adebayor was feeling slighted and had something to prove.

Eriksen and to a certain extent Lamela look a little lost and want to be in the same space all the time. Lacking positional discipline that left us with no width to exploit the space WBA left by being so compact. (The few dangerous moments we did have was when Rose got forward to supply that width.)

Also we still don't seem to want to provide options to the man on the ball. In possession there should always be a couple of passing options but still we only had one a lot of the time and that was sideways or backwards.

Lots for Pochettino to work on and it will be interesting to see whether he is willing to drop players out of form.

 

[Gassin's finest]

People were crediting Sherwood last season for getting the best out of Adebayor but in reality it was because Adebayor was feeling slighted and had something to prove.

Eriksen and to a certain extent Lamela look a little lost and want to be in the same space all the time. Lacking positional discipline that left us with no width to exploit the space WBA left by being so compact. (The few dangerous moments we did have was when Rose got forward to supply that width.)

Also we still don't seem to want to provide options to the man on the ball. In possession there should always be a couple of passing options but still we only had one a lot of the time and that was sideways or backwards.

Lots for Pochettino to work on and it will be interesting to see whether he is willing to drop players out of form.

I've seen some decent quick passing and linking up so far this season, but the triangles have gone... as you say, there should always be at least 2 players in support, showing for the ball. You train that in Sunday League for goodness sake.

Agree about Adebayor. Tim got the best out of him by simply playing him after being left out in the cold for half a season. Adebayor can be unplayable on his day, but he only plays for himself. He should just make up with Wenger and go back to Arsenal... it's the only place he was happy.

 

[lenny7]

We seem to have at least one of these results in us a season (i.e. losing to a pony team 1-0 at home), so I'm not surprised. I really hope Poch can sort this, but going on what has gone before him, I doubt it. We just seem stuck with it, I don't know whether it's a question of mentality or our squad just flatters to deceive, but what I do know is this is all too painfully familiar.

 

[Gassin's finest]

We seem to have at least one of these results in us a season (i.e. losing to a pony team 1-0 at home), so I'm not surprised. I really hope Poch can sort this, but going on what has gone before him, I doubt it. We just seem stuck with it, I don't know whether it's a question of mentality or our squad just flatters to deceive, but what I do know is this is all too painfully familiar.

True, we're just getting out of the way early on!

 

[bigfrooj]

I was on a remote beach in Sardinia relying on text updates from my son. I got two texts all match and that just about summed it up I think. Could be a long hard season and I am starting to turn against the board now, I think this has been a long time coming.

 

[eddiebailey]

People were crediting Sherwood last season for getting the best out of Adebayor but in reality it was because Adebayor was feeling slighted and had something to prove.

Eriksen and to a certain extent Lamela look a little lost and want to be in the same space all the time. Lacking positional discipline that left us with no width to exploit the space WBA left by being so compact. (The few dangerous moments we did have was when Rose got forward to supply that width.)

Sherwood got the best out of Adebayor by not leaving him totally isolated up front. Adebayor was given more licence to drop wide or deep and others were encouraged to make runs ahead of him

Similarly he got the best out of Eriksen by accepting his lack of positional discipline and giving him freedom, calculating that the loss of shape was worth the creativity he would bring the side.

Poch is attempting to recreate the dynamic he lucked into at Soton with a different group of players, and unsurprisingly it isn't working. Players are not interchangeable, they have very individual strengths and weaknesses that tactics need to be built around. Management is so much more that following a one size fits all tactical blueprint.

 

[jezz]

You should give up if you think that was a good performance

Sherwood got the best out of Adebayor by not leaving him totally isolated up front. Adebayor was given more licence to drop wide or deep and others were encouraged to make runs ahead of him

Similarly he got the best out of Eriksen by accepting his lack of positional discipline and giving him freedom, calculating that the loss of shape was worth the creativity he would bring the side.

Poch is attempting to recreate the dynamic he lucked into at Soton with a different group of players, and unsurprisingly it isn't working. Players are not interchangeable, they have very individual strengths and weaknesses that tactics need to be built around. Management is so much more that following a one size fits all tactical blueprint.

Is this a joke?

 

[sparx100]

I hated watching that game. Just hated it.

I credit Lamela with trying albeit too hard, but the rest of the team were just one paced and lackadaisical in effort.

What I thought odd was that the pressing which I had seen in other games (again a work in progress) was nowhere to be seen. The work ethic that Poch expects has not quite come out on the pitch as yet.

This is way too early to criticise the manager, other than to question whether he really did think the squad was good enough in the summer.I think assessing the squad in friendlies and training may have given him that impression, but now the season has started that he probably a bit like us are seeing the areas that are not quite up to scratch like the full backs, centre backs, midfielders and strikers

 

[WalkerboyUK]

True, we're just getting out of the way early on!

I'd like to think it's a one-off, but I reckon it's going to happen again against Southampton, Newcastle, Stoke & Everton.

 

[PT]

Was there as usual in Lower East block 20 with the two herberts in stereo behind me to my left and right as usual, giving it screaming insults and grumbles all game incessantly. I pitied anyone who had bought a ticket from General Sale for this game, to have their experience mullered by those two (of many more) sad individuals.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I'd like to think it's a one-off, but I reckon it's going to happen again against Southampton, Newcastle, Stoke & Everton.

La la la la la... I'm not listening!

 

[prawnsandwich]

I think you are always going to get grumblings when things are going badly and praise when things are going well. Never mind the fans getting on a managers back ENIC have had 9 managers in the last 11 years. Any manager taking the job knows he has to deliver, he knows he isn't going to be able to have time.
He also knows he inherits a squad that has pretty consistently been top 5 in the last nine years, so arguably should have the nucleus of a good team to develop.
He also should know that Levy is more interested in buying young players of great potential cheap and on low salaries and is not inclined to buy experienced players earning high wages and with declining resale values
Seems the obvious thing for me that new managers look at finding a shape and style that maximises the quality of the players he has and addresses the weaknesses that are there rather than look to fit them into a style and shape that may not suit the strengths
We have had 20 players arrive in the last three windows and more than that number leave, why? because instead of bringing in a manager that has the technical ability and the pragmatism to find a shape and style that best uses what we have and improve it we have brought in managers that want to fit them into one style and shape regardless. They happily offload decent players to bring in others not necessarily any better, often worse and not really focussing on the weaknesses already there but in the weaknesses that don't fit the style
I blame Levy primarily, we were genuine top 4 candidates with Harry, but Harry was a hugely experienced manager, not fixed to a given style by any dogma, happy to get the team playing, happy to develop and adapt. His only real weakness was that in knowing the need for balance in the squad and the need for players with character, drive, desire and leadership he was often at odds with Levy over transfer targets. The compromise was that we didn't get players he would have preferred and instead he had to make do with freebies in their declining years rather than in or around their peak
I don't think people are criticising Poch because of yesterdays result or yesterdays performance and I think people are aware that he had a short pre season and has only played 8 competitive games, however people whilst not necessarily expecting great performances or always winning score lines do expect to see signs that we are improving
On the back of save QPR some very disappointing performances, a weak transfer window, some very questionable team selections, some strange tactics and substitutions and the pretty lets say surprising captaincy and vice captaincy decisions many are feeling concerns
Lets be fair Poch arrived with no tangible track record, an inexperienced manager who had yo yo'd Espanyol from a low position to a mid table position back to the bottom and had taken over a Soton side doing OK and establishing itself in the PL and getting a decent position in it's second season. Lots of managers have managed to steer new clubs to a decent position, he moved before anyone knew if he could maintain it. Lets be fair Koeman currently is doing better at Soton despite half the first team leaving.

There are more questions about Poch than answers at this stage, it's understandable questions are being asked, if he starts to show improvements then that will quickly placate the concerns, it's really down to him and how he does from now on.

I think 'Arry fucked us up bringing Crouch in and he should have done better with the players he had.
But the other stuff is spot on.
My main issue is with his tactics and subs. Ramos/AVB and him never seem to be able to change things when it goes wrong.

 

[Spurs Lad]

It annoys me watching Tottenham at the moment as they just are not enjoying their football.

Game one under Poch - the boys looked up for it, closing down the opposition from the attack, not giving time on the ball... But this lasted one game? Is this them missing Dawson's dressing room inspiration???? I don't know but they have lost something!

Erik Lamela - i am sorry but what a pile of crap this boy is. He tries, but he loses it all the time. He's playing like a young kid in a Sunday league team that has energy but no strength, lack of ability... Oh but he'll try.... Oh but he's a waste of space. Please stop crediting the boy on being up for it. If you're not good enough and you lose the ball with useless passes, hogging it, crap runs in the box, etc you should get 4-5/10.

I can't believe people can't see this! Even Milner is more productive. He's someone who actually tries hard, isn't the best, but is productive!

Let 's see how we get on but I think we'll regret not buying Welbeck...

 

[ebzrascal]

The point is ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORLDS and I think Spurs FANS have heard enough crap.. I wish managers were grilled more on their tactics and use of players etc... I think they get away very lightly in their post match interviews.

@ gilzeantheking If you going to SPAM ME write a reason don`t be an idiot !!

 

[prawnsandwich]

We need to get our back 4 settled. I was prepared to give Chiriches a second chance but he was sloppy yesterday-and Kaboul is captain? We were nervous yesterday IMO because the other players did not trust the defence.

 

[Barry Mead]

Barry if you think the performance against Sunderland was poor, then seriously find another hobby.

You are the one who needs a hobby mate if you think our defence actually could be described as that or our attack was anything but toothless. Possession football counts for very little if you can't make it count in terms of goals or keep out goals at the back.
Sunderland are 17th in the table, they have terrible home form and we managed a draw. If you think we did well then I'm totally lost for words

 

[Mr Pink]

You are the one who needs a hobby mate if you think our defence actually could be described as that or our attack was anything but toothless. Possession football counts for very little if you can't make it count in terms of goals or keep out goals at the back.
Sunderland are 17th in the table, they have terrible home form and we managed a draw. If you think we did well then I'm totally lost for words

Barry you're off your rocker.

We played well at Sunderland. We should of had four or five. Be critical in terms of our failure to finish them off sure, but don't imply we didn't play well overall. That's horse shit mate.

Yesterday we managed one shot on target, the two performances our poles apart, and I mean poles.